D&D 5E Tomb of Horrors: Is All Poison Save or Die?

MechaPilot said:

Save or die is weak. What's the fun in poison if it kills instantly? The expectation of death is so much more enjoyable.

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Hah, yeah. But once the group realizes there are save or die traps in the dungeon, they will definitely have the expectation of death with every step they take, every door they open, and everything they touch.

MechaPilot said:

A creature struck by a naricium weapon must make a DC 20 Con save. Failure means the target accrues one failed death save and suffers from naricium poisoning. At the end of each day, the poisoned character must make a DC 10 death save. A failure will accrue another failed death save; a success will remove one failed death save. However, even if the character succeeds on this death save while having no failures to remove, the character remains poisoned. Apart from the incredibly rare antidote known only to the Darve, only a greater restoration spell cast with a secret focus can cure naricium poisoning. A character with naricium poisoning who is raised from the dead remains poisoned and must still have the poison magically removed.

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If people that are high enough level to raise dead and cast greater restoration have interacted with this poison, how come nobody has used contact other plane, legend lore or divination to find out what the cure/secret focus is?

Saeviomagy said:

If people that are high enough level to raise dead and cast greater restoration have interacted with this poison, how come nobody has used contact other plane, legend lore or divination to find out what the cure/secret focus is?

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Thanks for the question.

The secret focus has been discovered before, and lost and rediscovered several times; the history of the Tenesia setting is long (elves, dwarves, and the other immortal races have been around long enough to see apes evolve into humans, and lizards into goblins).

The Darve, as well as a few orders of assassins, have a vested interest in keeping the secret. Discovering the cure would be big news, and it would immediately make the discoverer, her family, her friends, and her home a target. Plus, unscrupulous nobility who aren't beyond a little bit of murder to advance their station don't want the secret to get out either (though they do want it for themselves).

Also, naricium is not something most people experience. As I mentioned before, the Darve are the only ones who know how to make weapons from it. Others who use it do so as a powdered poison, or manage to make a watered-down liquid version (lower save DC). Only the elves, dwarves and goblins who frequently come into conflict with the Darve are likely to ever see naricium, and even then it's not as if all Darve are armed with it (it is quite expensive, as I mentioned). To all other races, naricium is essentially a thing of legend, and some people don't believe it exists: they may claim Darve magic is what kills the victims, or that it's just a myth told to frighten people.

So, the general demand for a cure is fairly low compared to curing many more commonly seen poisons and diseases.

MechaPilot said:

Thanks for the question.

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Thanks for the answer. The concept seems ill fitting to me, but as long as it has served it's purpose in your campaign, I guess that doesn't matter

mflayermonk said:

No one survives the (1e) Tomb of Horrors unless they have read the mod. That's why there are something like 20 pregens included with the mod.

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This.

How many 1st ed. wizards had the Forget spell handy?

And if memory serves, none of the pre-gens had the appropriate spells or items to challenge the demi-lich.

You won by not fighting. If you didn't mess with the skull it couldn't hurt you. Grab the loot, take a selfie and leave.

I think it depends on how you define "win". I really don't think you were ever supposed to defeat the demi-lich. I mean, think about it...back in the day when the scenario was run, no one had even heard of a demi-lich and certainly had absolutely no idea how to hurt one. The means to hurt it in 1e are not intuitive in the least. And the whole set up with the demi-lich is not one where the demi-lich just up and attacks the party. It rises....it warns...and it drains a single PC at a time. Eventually, the PCs are going to either figure out something or they are going to flee the dungeon.

In my opinion, reaching the demi-lich and making it back out alive is winning.

Sands999 said:

I'm reading through the original ToH for AD&D, and converting it for my 5e campaign. There are a lot of instances where poison is used. In the first instance it is used (a pit trap), it states that the poison is save or die. Later, many other instances of poison (traps, snake bites, etc) are mentioned but it does not specify if it is save or die. It just says "poison".

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In my experience, 1e poison comes in two varieties:

If it's poison that PCs can only interact with by being afflicted with it, then it's save or die in the next round. On a successful save, take ~30 damage.

If it's poison that the PCs can conceivably collect or use to their benefit, then it's save or take ~20 damage 10-20 minutes from now. On a successful save, take no damage.

It's truly shocking how quickly poison degrades once a poisonous or venomous creature has been killed.

I've run this dungeon twice.

I'm old and have gray hair, heed my wisdom.

Either:

Spend a significant enough part of the campaign leading up to the Tomb letting them know this is a horrifyingly difficult challenge, and use a lot of puzzles and traps that increasingly get more damaging and deadly, so it teaches them to take the dungeon on it's own terms - as a test of their ability to solve problems without taking stupid risks...

OR

Give them a bunch of pre-gens and make it a one-shot with those pregens, just like it was built for - as a tournament dungeon at Origins to determine a 'winner' quickly and brutally between a bunch of teams playing simultaneously.

Wimping the thing down with less-than-deadly effects defeats the purpose it was made for - to see how careful and analytical your players are.

Both times I ran it my players 'beat' the dungeon with the only deaths coming at the final battle. 2e and 3.5e.