D&D 5E Tomb of Horrors: Is All Poison Save or Die?

[Quickleaf]

Thanks. I wanted to see how AD&D handled poison. I decided to purchase the AD&D rules on PDFs at Dungeons & Dragons Classics, and I read through the AD&D DMG. It states ther that normally, "poisons are an all or nothing affair."

D&D 5e, does not do things this way. However, to maintain the shadowy spirit of ToH, the poisons in the dungeon will instantly drop the character to 0 HP and begin making death saves in this run of the adventure. Unfair? I say no. This is because my players have a ton of full heal potions and dropping to 0 instantly is not death per se. They'll have a chance to fully restore the characters up to ten times a piece. And there is a cleric and a Druid who can both cast reincarnation. This'll put them on high alert though.

Well if I'm remembering right the AD&D2e Monster Manual included a whole variety of snake poisons. Let me see if I can find that...

 

[Luz]

Does anyone know if the poison is supposed to instantly kill in all cases that it is used?

Yes.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Quickleaf]

1. Good find!

2. 2e mollycoddled the players.

3. Unless otherwise specified, 1e poison killed you dead. If it didn't kill you dead, it would have a table (BECAUSE OF COURSE IT HAD A TABLE, IT'S 1E!!!!) or some other text.

4. I spent way, way, way too much time on the Assassin's use of poison section in the 1e DMG, and wondering why there was a different number of contact v. ingested poisons.

Lol. Well, now I finally understand why everyone older than me said that "1e was real D&D."

 

[mflayermonk]

In this way I feel I will give them a real chance to test themselves against the REAL ToH, and not end their characters and the campaign if they fail. So if they survive it is well earned and they'll walk away with a shirt saying "I suRcice the Tomb of Horrors". If not, it'll be a plot point into the campaign arc.

What do you think of that?

No one survives the (1e) Tomb of Horrors unless they have read the mod. That's why there are something like 20 pregens included with the mod.

Also, 5e Heroes Feast might make the poison saves (immunity) much easier for the players.

 

[Sands999]

No one survives the (1e) Tomb of Horrors unless they have read the mod. That's why there are something like 20 pregens included with the mod.

Also, 5e Heroes Feast might make the poison saves (immunity) much easier for the players.

Im fairly certain my players can survive this awful dungeon, even with me running it full force. They have a ton of full heals and when they are working together they make good choices. Good call on the Heroes Feast. One of the characters (the Cleric) also has a Periapt of Wound Closure. I truly feel if they are paying attention that they will be able to survive!

 

[Sands999]

You know your group better than I. But my gut reaction is that even if you do bring them back from the dead but you don't tell them that until the end of the campaign when they have all finally died (and they will all die, especially if they have never played ToH before and have no knowledge of it), then you will still have to deal with upset and agitated players for the session.

So my feeling is that it's better and more fun for everyone to let them know ahead of time that if they die they get brought back to life later, and that it's a really tough dungeon. Otherwise if you surprise them with it, you might be causing heartache.

But like I said, and I really mean this, you know the nature of your group the best. So go with whatever you think is the most fun.

Edit: I hope that didn't come across as me giving a lecture or sounding pretentious. I just mean that every group is different. When we played it, we knew ahead of time our characters would die, and we still had a blast. But I could see other groups enjoying being surprised by the danger of the adventure.

My group all knows WHAT ToH is. I am actually not sure if they have ever looked through the actual module or if a couple of them have player or run it. I'm taking risks in a lot of ways here, I know, but I'm okay with this because I know my group is going to have a good time with it. I plan on showing them the icon that will herald knowledge of what they've gotten into in the entryway, the green devil face. I know as soon as one of my players sees this he's going to react. At that point they'll know for sure what is going on and what they're up against. I feel that my group trusts me enough to know that even though I can be a menacing DM, that I am not a heartless one.

 

[designbot]

Dungeon Magazine issue 213 had a conversion of Tomb of Horrors to D&D Next (the 5e playtest rules) done by Chris Perkins. You might want to check that out if you can't wait for Tales from the Yawning Portal. (It treats poison traps with varying amounts of poison damage.)

 

[the Jester]

No one survives the (1e) Tomb of Horrors unless they have read the mod.

Not true. A smart, cautious, well-prepared group can get through. Source: Have run said group.

 

[JonnyP71]

I worry a little about the conversion of ToH that we will see in Tales of the Yawning Portal. Modern players are too used to getting things their own way - instant and irretrievable death is quite hard to come by after the 1st few levels.

Tomb of Horrors has a reputation to keep. It is meant to strike fear in the hearts of any prospective player. It was THE hardest 1E adventure, even tougher than the original Ravenloft, and that is saying something. It was designed to grind cocky players into the dirt, and should never, ever, ever have been dropped into a campaign where the players were using long term characters.

It was quite simply THE best module for a one shot game though. Bar none. Anyone who argues differently is plain wrong.

So if there is any watering down of the difficulty for 5E then it will cease to be the Tomb of Horrors. The previous 5E conversion was abysmal for this reason. There must be sections which cause instant death (no save), there must be multiple instances of save or die. There must be explosions which do twice the average hit point damage of an on-level Wizard. There must be puzzles which requires serious inventiveness to solve.

And Acererak needs to be a lot tougher than he is the MM.


I DMed it twice for my 2 groups using the original 1E rules. I created a specific party for the adventure including a 13th level Cleric, a 14th level Mage, a 12th level Monk, a 12th level Paladin, and a 7/7/9 1E Bard. They had top drawer magic items - A Staff of Power, a +4 Defender Sword, Wings of Flying, Slippers of Spiderclimb, and many more - their spellbooks and initial spell selections gave them massive hints as to what spells they would need - Commune, Forget, Shatter, Find Traps, Teleport, Locate Object. I created a group of spare characters who would wait outside the Tomb to replace the inevitable casualties.

Acererak never even got scratched on either occasion. One group lost all 5 of their starting characters, didn't use any of the spares. The other group used some of the spares, one original character (the Mage) survived - he fled the Tomb naked having seen all his companions blown up, squashed, dissolved, impaled, and entombed.

11 dead PCs, 1 traumatised survivor, the Demi Lich continued to sleep soundly - untouched. And that's the way it should remain.