I want to build a really effective gish. Please help!

krunchyfrogg · Apr 2, 2017

I am playing in Adventurers League, starting at level 1.

I want a character that's "online" by level 3, and I want to have some arcane spell casting as well as the ability to fight in melee. I've read tons of fun looking builds, but I wanted to get some fresh opinions.

Here's what I've brainstormed already:

Fighter 1/pact of the blade warlock X
Paladin 2/draconic sorcerer X
Bladesinger X
Fighter eldritch knight X
Paladin 2/pact of the blade warlock X
Mountain dwarf wizard abjuration X

Remember, AL rules!!

Zardnaar · Apr 2, 2017

Fighter1/bladelock xyz is your best option apart from a Paladin which doesn't really fit your concept.

Its a bit weaker at level 5 and 2 but not horribly so and you can mitigate it with eldritch blast at lvl 5.

HermanTheWize · Apr 3, 2017

I'd really like to hear some good ideas as well, especially ones that use the bladelock.

If I think of a good one, I'll let you know.

WarpedAcorn · Apr 3, 2017

HermanTheWize said:
I'd really like to hear some good ideas as well, especially ones that use the bladelock.

If I think of a good one, I'll let you know.

It depends on how you want to lean honestly. The problem with Gish builds is that there is a HUGE sliding scale between martial and magical, and everyone has their own ides on where their "perfect gish" falls in that spectrum.

For example, the most extreme Martial-Leaning Gish is best represented by a straight Eldritch Knight character. You get full Fighter skills and abilities, including up to 4 Attacks a round as well as a little spellcasting to supplement yourself. But the spell casting with an EK is minor and the fun stuff comes late. Also, a straight Paladin gives solid magic (albeit close-range).

Alternatively, building on your idea of the Mountain Dwarf Abjurer Wizard, you could go with a War Cleric / Wizard. This way you get full spellcasting slots, access to 1st level Cleric Spells like Healing Word and Bless, Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons, and are only 1 level behind on your Arcane Spells. This one, however, will be slightly more squishy due to lower HP. This is mitigated by having higher Armor and potentially an Abjurer's Barrier.

If you picture something inbetween that, what do you want your character to specifically be able to do? What are the top wants and what are minor wants? Are there specific spells or abilities you want?

Cognomen's Cassowary · Apr 3, 2017

I had fun (in a too-brief campaign) as a life cleric/abjurer. The advantages of life cleric are that bless and cure wounds are auto-preps, so you can use your choice preps to take abjuration spells, you can heal reasonably well using low-level slots, and you get armor and shield proficiencies. I went dex-based and played a high elf to get dex, int, booming blade at first level, and weapon proficiencies, and I picked up the war caster feat at fifth level.

It worked nicely, though it was definitely on the castier end of the spectrum.

WarpedAcorn · Apr 3, 2017

One additional note should be that Booming Blade/Green Flame blade scale in such a way that if you plan on using a Sword and Shield method, you don't miss out on much "standard attack" damage. Since cantrips scale with character level and not class level, when some classes get their 2nd attack the melee cantrip will simply add another d8 (which is the same damage dice of the best 1-Handed option). It falls behind if you plan to get a Two-Hander though, and it does require that you pick up War Caster ASAP.

mellored · Apr 3, 2017

Booming blade + arcane trickster rogue works well. You can snag armor and shield from another class, or more spells.

krunchyfrogg · Apr 5, 2017

Zardnaar said:
Fighter1/bladelock xyz is your best option apart from a Paladin which doesn't really fit your concept.

Its a bit weaker at level 5 and 2 but not horribly so and you can mitigate it with eldritch blast at lvl 5.

Why weaker at 2 and 5?

krunchyfrogg · Apr 5, 2017

WarpedAcorn said:
It depends on how you want to lean honestly. The problem with Gish builds is that there is a HUGE sliding scale between martial and magical, and everyone has their own ides on where their "perfect gish" falls in that spectrum.

For example, the most extreme Martial-Leaning Gish is best represented by a straight Eldritch Knight character. You get full Fighter skills and abilities, including up to 4 Attacks a round as well as a little spellcasting to supplement yourself. But the spell casting with an EK is minor and the fun stuff comes late. Also, a straight Paladin gives solid magic (albeit close-range).

Alternatively, building on your idea of the Mountain Dwarf Abjurer Wizard, you could go with a War Cleric / Wizard. This way you get full spellcasting slots, access to 1st level Cleric Spells like Healing Word and Bless, Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons, and are only 1 level behind on your Arcane Spells. This one, however, will be slightly more squishy due to lower HP. This is mitigated by having higher Armor and potentially an Abjurer's Barrier.

If you picture something inbetween that, what do you want your character to specifically be able to do? What are the top wants and what are minor wants? Are there specific spells or abilities you want?

You make some great points.

I'm at the point where I'm fine with not getting any extra attacks, because I think booming blade and green flame blade are that good. I definitely want both of them.

I want a decent-> good AC, as well as at least 7 HP per level (average), so that wading into melee is a good option. I think you get more out of just a few warrior levels, and you should, at most, have 25% of your levels in a martial class. The fewer the better.

krunchyfrogg · Apr 5, 2017

WarpedAcorn said:
One additional note should be that Booming Blade/Green Flame blade scale in such a way that if you plan on using a Sword and Shield method, you don't miss out on much "standard attack" damage. Since cantrips scale with character level and not class level, when some classes get their 2nd attack the melee cantrip will simply add another d8 (which is the same damage dice of the best 1-Handed option). It falls behind if you plan to get a Two-Hander though, and it does require that you pick up War Caster ASAP.

This is a minor dilemma of mine.

If I go Paladin 2/Sorcerer X, I don't get war caster until level 6.

Should I just use a greatsword until then?

I want to build a really effective gish. Please help!

krunchyfrogg

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HermanTheWize

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Cognomen's Cassowary

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