D&D 5E Does anyone else find Nova-ing is not a problem in 5e?

S'mon · May 26, 2017

jayoungr said:
It's the Battlemaster that I worry about in my group, not the casters. She took an adult dragon to half-hitpoints on a single attack once (she was level 13-14 at the time and had a dragonslaying weapon).

3 attacks, with advantage & d8 extra from superiority die, +3d6 for dragonslayer? Did she have Greatweapon Fighter? crit? I'd think a berserking barbarian with Reckless Attack could do the same, for much longer. A smiting Paladin could conceivably do more damage too, but 2 atts & no reliable advtg source AFAIK, so more swingy.

Edit: The Barb-18 IMC has a legendary +3 dragonslayer. Looking forward to seeing him take on his first ancient dragon...

Corwin · May 26, 2017

Battlemaster: "So what's your shtick?"
Ranger: "I'm unequaled in exploration and I even took a few social interaction benefits."
Battlemaster: "Awesome!"
Ranger: "How 'bout you?"
Battlemaster: "I kill stuff real good."
Ranger: "Cool. Looks like we got our bases covered."

[Combat begins - Battlemaster obliterating targets commences]

Ranger: "Whaaa! The Battlemaster is nova-ing! Why is he allowed to be better at fighting than me?!"

TwoSix · May 26, 2017

Burning through spell slots quickly is still a thing in 5e; front-loading casting power into heavily buffed characters performing alpha strikes is what is no longer a problem in 5e. The only real problem I've observed is paladins chewing through slots quickly via smites, and healing spells being spent to yo-yo characters between 0 HP and positive HP.

That being said, we've never played anywhere close to "2 short rests, 6-8 encounters per long rest". If something seems challenging, we spend everything we have and rest.

ExploderWizard · May 26, 2017

S'mon said:
3 attacks, with advantage & d8 extra from superiority die, +3d6 for dragonslayer? Did she have Greatweapon Fighter? crit? I'd think a berserking barbarian with Reckless Attack could do the same, for much longer. A smiting Paladin could conceivably do more damage too, but 2 atts & no reliable advtg source AFAIK, so more swingy.

Edit: The Barb-18 IMC has a legendary +3 dragonslayer. Looking forward to seeing him take on his first ancient dragon...

The battle master would have d10's as superiority dice at that point. My battle master is level 9. Getting that d10 next level.

S'mon · May 26, 2017

TwoSix said:
Burning through spell slots quickly is still a thing in 5e; front-loading casting power into heavily buffed characters performing alpha strikes is what is no longer a problem in 5e. The only real problem I've observed is paladins chewing through slots quickly via smites, and healing spells being spent to yo-yo characters between 0 HP and positive HP.

That being said, we've never played anywhere close to "2 short rests, 6-8 encounters per long rest". If something seems challenging, we spend everything we have and rest.

Healing spell issue may be due to monsters not finishing off fallen PCs.
Is Paladins burning through slots a problem?

Iosue · May 26, 2017

It has not been an issue at all. I actually wish they'd nova a little more, but they're somewhat paranoid and always want to keep something in reserve. For our group, it seems like rests are perfectly timed at 1hour and 8 hours. The short rest bleeds off the pressure for a long rest, but at 1 hour is a little too long for them to feel comfortable taking many. So they conserve their resources, take a short rest after three or four encounters, and take a long rest after about two rests. It's working pretty well, I'd say.

CapnZapp · May 26, 2017

S'mon said:
I'm talking about PCs frequently using all available resources in a single battle. Nova tactics. Might be part of a long adventuring day, but not in the sense of umpteen battles.

For a fresh high-level character, sure, provided the opposition lasts ten rounds or so.

CapnZapp · May 26, 2017

Corwin said:
Battlemaster: "So what's your shtick?"
Ranger: "I'm unequaled in exploration and I even took a few social interaction benefits."
Battlemaster: "Awesome!"
Ranger: "How 'bout you?"
Battlemaster: "I kill stuff real good."
Ranger: "Cool. Looks like we got our bases covered."

[Combat begins - Battlemaster obliterating targets commences]

Ranger: "Whaaa! The Battlemaster is nova-ing! Why is he allowed to be better at fighting than me?!"

In my experience the subclass isn't the main reason why X is better than Y. You need a fairly specific set of minmaxing choices to accomplish this.

Obviously getting an extra extra attack at level 11 helps Fighters visavi other martial classes, but Rangers do get (a limited selection of) bonus attacks too. What makes the Battlemaster really take off, is the ability to use Precision superiority dice to negate the penalty of -5 so you get the +10 on every attack every round (of the nova combat).

So the real problem is every weapon user except greatweapon and crossbow users asking this "Why is he allowed to be better at fighting than me?!" question.

Why doesn't the D&D game (with feats enabled) allow the Greatclub or Javelin or Flail or Morningstar user... or the board and sword, the dual-wielder or the rapier-and-cape fighter, to be truly great at combat... that's the real mystery to me.

Corwin · May 26, 2017

CapnZapp said:
In my experience the subclass isn't the main reason why X is better than Y.

Okay. But I'm not sure what that has to do with my post. I don't recall mentioning such an issue.

CapnZapp said:
You need a fairly specific set of minmaxing choices to accomplish this.

To accomplish what? Because I disagree with what I think you are trying to get at.

CapnZapp said:
So the real problem is every weapon user except greatweapon and crossbow users asking this "Why is he allowed to be better at fighting than me?!" question.

I don't think that's a "real problem" at all. And nothing to do with my post, besides. So completely missing my point.

CapnZapp said:
Why doesn't the D&D game (with feats enabled) allow the Greatclub or Javelin or Flail or Morningstar user... or the board and sword, the dual-wielder or the rapier-and-cape fighter, to be truly great at combat... that's the real mystery to me.

I think you are not only asking the wrong questions, but its influenced by what I believe to be a mindset that is causing you all this consternation.

Otherwise, you might want to define what it takes to be "truly great at combat", first. Since you defined that as your benchmark.