TheAntiSummit
First Post
SteamPunk? CyberPunk? I'm confused. Without sounding too stupid, is it possible for me to ask what the word "punk" at the end of a genre name actually means?
Punk
Teflon Billy
Explorer
usually it either means....
A) No Alignment
or...
B) An flag to the World of Darkness folks that the supplelment in question is "cool"
Hehe, I shouldn't make fun. I'm a "World of Darkness " folk .
A) No Alignment
or...
B) An flag to the World of Darkness folks that the supplelment in question is "cool"
Hehe, I shouldn't make fun. I'm a "World of Darkness " folk .
Monster Manuel
First Post
Generally, in my understanding, it means counterculture- any genre where the heroes fight against a status quo that only they see to be detrimental. There's also an implication of 'edginess', and style over substance. So while the characters might be fighting a war that holds cosmic implications, the characters themselves might seem shallow, or flashy.
Desdichado
Hero
In terms of cyberpunk, steampunk and White Wolf's "gothic-punk" it means the genre is typified by a counter culture of anarchy and urban dystopia. It's slightly different in each genre; cyberpunk is about the homeless cyber-flunkies, steampunk typically highlights Victorian-esque class boundaries, and gothic-punk is because it's goths that act like punks.
Desdichado
Hero
I've never heard any of those attached to the npunk genres. Certainly in cyberpunk, which coined the phrase in the first place, it wasn't only the "heroes" that saw the status quo as detrimental, the actual, heel-grinding detrimental nature of the status quo was a key feature of the genre. I've also not clear where you're getting the style over substance argument, unless you're basing punk in this context on that Matthew Lillard movie about punk rockers in Salt Lake City...Monster Manuel said:
This is probably not much of a revelation, but both of the terms are literary first, applied to games second. Cyberpunk was coined to describe a wave of science fiction writing that portrayed mostly a future where poverty remained common, and life in general was not too far removed from our experience, with the addition of some science fictional technology that also did not seem too improbable to some people. An edgy writing style was considered essential to the genre, and I think this is the main reason the term “punk” was used, while the cyber part came from the heavily techno-oriented story material itself. The key author in the genre was and is William Gibson, and he also wrote one book set in an alternative Victorian era where certain technologies were discovered earlier than in reality; this novel was labeled Steampunk. I don’t know if there is much of a literary genre in Steampunk…maybe there are some imitators, I don’t know. The book, The Difference Engine, did not do too well critically, as I recall, and Gibson returned to Cyberpunk.
So, I think games using those titles are aiming to be associated with those literary concepts, mainly. The way most games could be called Tolkien.
So, I think games using those titles are aiming to be associated with those literary concepts, mainly. The way most games could be called Tolkien.
The punk "movement" was a (thankfully) brief fetish originating in the late 70s and early 80s. Typically it was characterized by angry anti-hippies: people who hated groupthink and codified social conventions of any sort, as well as government, corporatism and nearly every other other organizational principle. Punks pierced their bodies and wore mowhawks. Punks were angry about the ignominy of their cushy, middle class lives. Punks hated disco's vapid optimism and fought it with unrelenting, vapid pessimism. Punks idealized anarchism's lack of social structure, but did not recognize that historical anarchism relies on a voluntary social contract based on shared values (which punks reflexively hated).
These days punks are remembered less for their myopic vision than for their crappy music, which is an obligatory phase in the pedigree of all hip musicians. So in answer to your question, the addition of the suffix "punk" to various dystopic milieus is merely an attempt to identify with that edgy, relentlessly "dark" (and therefore perenially "cool") attitude of a movement whose fear of "selling out" led them to the remarkably unimaginative conclusion that the only thing left to do was yell.
These days punks are remembered less for their myopic vision than for their crappy music, which is an obligatory phase in the pedigree of all hip musicians. So in answer to your question, the addition of the suffix "punk" to various dystopic milieus is merely an attempt to identify with that edgy, relentlessly "dark" (and therefore perenially "cool") attitude of a movement whose fear of "selling out" led them to the remarkably unimaginative conclusion that the only thing left to do was yell.
Tsyr
Explorer
Joshua Dyal said:
Depends on the particular game, to an extent... Shadowrun, for example, has been stressing for some time that, while Shadowrunners might be "cool" and live free and all that, they really aren't all that enviable, or really much of heros, by and large. For most people, in Shadowrun, the system works just fine. The averge person, provided they aren't an orc or troll (Elves have a few places to go where they are tollerated just fine), can get some sort of paying work, a roof over their head, 3 meals a day (Even if they might be soy-based synthetic food supplements), and has a SIN... And it's entierly possible to make out just fine with that, and many people have much much more. Contrast that with Shadowrunners, who have to commit crimes just to make some sort of life for themselves.
Mind you, the world of Shadowrun is *far* from perfect. But most Shadowrunners aren't helping the world get better, either.
krunchyfrogg
Explorer
That's a punk.
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