Discovery and Star Trek

Mallus

Legend
The last bit I saw was Saru ordering the engineer to torture a living and potentially sentient creature to death in order to save one Federation captain. And ordering the ship's doctor to vivisect the creature in order to do so.
One of best-regarded episodes of ST:TNG was about a Starfleet cyberneticist's attempt to essentially vivisect Lt. Commander Data. When Data refuses to give consent, he's taken to court to determine if he is really a person, or merely a thing which is property of Starfleet. Note this isn't a "rogue Starfleet officer" type-deal. It's official, chain-of-command, ending in a courtroom battle.

The reason given for the invasive and potentially harmful study of Data is the promise of creating many more Datas, i.e. a race of rights-less chattel slaves who can be sent into dangerous situations without no further concern. Well, except maybe cost.

Star Trek is Star Trek because these situations work out in the end. Which, as someone else pointed out, it did for the tardigrade!

BTW, I completely agree about Lorca leaving Mudd. Didn't like it, wasn't necessary. Reminded me of an unsuccessful scene from GoT. Having Lorca pause to consider leaving Mudd during the escape, then failing while attempting to rescue him would have been enough.

I also agree about the general unpleasantness in some of the characters interactions. But that's changing. Stamets is really wonderful once he starts microdosing (err, macrodosing?) shrooms. I can't say all the character development is being handled gracefully, but it's clear after 7 episodes the season is going to be more than "unrepentantly unpleasant people... IN SPAAAACE".

edit: the 7th episode is delightful. They should make a rule that from now on, every time travel or time loop episode must feature a snarky theatrical antagonist. Also disco lights! And beer pong! More Wyclef or maybe The Fugees would be cool, too.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad


Ryujin

Legend
Do people not recall how different ST:STG seemed from TOS when it premiered? Or how different the two shows actually are?

And yet were all immediately recognizable as Trek, if you dropped into pretty much any 5 minute long section, until....
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Star Trek is Star Trek because these situations work out in the end. Which, as someone else pointed out, it did for the tardigrade!

I guess we'll have to see "in the end" since this season is essentially one long episode.

But so far, this series tends to be expressly and purposefully bucking that. Take Burnam's actions that caused her fall. She really and honestly believed that she was doing the only possible correct thing. In prior series, when a main character acts like that, the worst that generally happens is an "oh you..." (his fault or not, Data should never be allowed near a Starfleet bridge, how many times did he hijack the Enterprise, 3?) Here, she actually faces the logical consequences of her actions. It's diffferent take and I mostly liked it.

edit: the 7th episode is delightful. They should make a rule that from now on, every time travel or time loop episode must feature a snarky theatrical antagonist. Also disco lights! And beer pong! More Wyclef or maybe The Fugees would be cool, too.

While I mostly agree, the ending did not belong with the episode. It just didn't fit with how they portrayed Mudd. Also, what are the actual chances Lorca lets Mudd go considering Mudd's knowledge of the alien time looping tech. Talk about a way to win the war! Lorca would lock Mudd in tiny room and not let him out until every little secret about the tech had been explored. I get why they ended the episode like they did, it just didn't work - at least not for me.



Sent from my SM-G930V using EN World mobile app
 

Hussar

Legend
One change is not an evisceration. Keeping almost nothing but the name and badge is.

Hrm, warrior race dedicated to Kahless, ruthless adversaries that pretty much care nothing for lthe lives and well being of anyone else. Sounds about right to me.

The only thing that has changed about the Klingons so far is appearance. As you say, one change is not eviceration.
 

Ryujin

Legend
Hrm, warrior race dedicated to Kahless, ruthless adversaries that pretty much care nothing for lthe lives and well being of anyone else. Sounds about right to me.

The only thing that has changed about the Klingons so far is appearance. As you say, one change is not eviceration.

Presuming that the Klingon appearance change is the only one in this series, which it isn't.
 

Hussar

Legend
Presuming that the Klingon appearance change is the only one in this series, which it isn't.

What else has changed?

TOS presents Klingons that will casually commit genocide on a planetary scale, will casually kill pretty much anyone they feel like, and are generally pretty darn unpleasant. We're finally getting to directly see why we should be afraid of Klingons.
 


Hussar

Legend
Not much. Just history, tech, morality, appearance, metaphysics...

Buh? What history has changed? What morality? The only tech change is adding a cloaking device to a single ship, and it's never actually been stated in canon where and when the Klingons got it. There were explanations that they stole it from the Romulans, but, that was all fan explanations and never actually stated in canon. Metaphysics? I'm not even sure what that means here in context.

Look, in TOS, the Klingons were a stand in for Communists. Like all good SF, they are a commentary on the real world. Now, since this is 2017 and we deep in a cold war with the communists anymore, it's not really surprising that there have been some changes.

But, let's not forget. The Klingons were SCARY. In TOS, when you saw Klingons, it was very much an OH :):):):) moment. But, in TOS, it was never really explained why. Why are the Klingons considered such bad guys? We did though, see all sorts of oblique references. In Errand of Mercy, any disobedience to Klingons was an instant death sentence. When the Organians resist, Kor orders the execution of 200 random citizens. Not exactly warm and fuzzy. Klingons were always described as being downright nasty, we just never actually directly saw it very much.

Now? Now we're getting up close and personal about why the Federation and it's allies distrusts and outright hates the Klingons so much. It's not so much of a change in canon, but, rather, a change in how much we're directly getting to see.

The whole "noble warrior" thing that TNG and subsequent series added was a change to how Klingons were originally portrayed. One would hope that it was contact with the Federation that causes the societal change.

Appearance? Ok, yup. I'll certainly grant you that.
 

Ryujin

Legend
Buh? What history has changed? What morality? The only tech change is adding a cloaking device to a single ship, and it's never actually been stated in canon where and when the Klingons got it. There were explanations that they stole it from the Romulans, but, that was all fan explanations and never actually stated in canon. Metaphysics? I'm not even sure what that means here in context.

Look, in TOS, the Klingons were a stand in for Communists. Like all good SF, they are a commentary on the real world. Now, since this is 2017 and we deep in a cold war with the communists anymore, it's not really surprising that there have been some changes.

But, let's not forget. The Klingons were SCARY. In TOS, when you saw Klingons, it was very much an OH :):):):) moment. But, in TOS, it was never really explained why. Why are the Klingons considered such bad guys? We did though, see all sorts of oblique references. In Errand of Mercy, any disobedience to Klingons was an instant death sentence. When the Organians resist, Kor orders the execution of 200 random citizens. Not exactly warm and fuzzy. Klingons were always described as being downright nasty, we just never actually directly saw it very much.

Now? Now we're getting up close and personal about why the Federation and it's allies distrusts and outright hates the Klingons so much. It's not so much of a change in canon, but, rather, a change in how much we're directly getting to see.

The whole "noble warrior" thing that TNG and subsequent series added was a change to how Klingons were originally portrayed. One would hope that it was contact with the Federation that causes the societal change.

Appearance? Ok, yup. I'll certainly grant you that.

You keep falling back to the Klingons. I don't pin everything on that, though it certainly rankles.

- A cloaking device long before they could have had one, based on the (postulated) Romulan-Klingon treaty from TOS.
- Full, immersive telepathy over light years of distance when the best that Spock could manage was a feeling of disbelief, after 430 Vulcans died.
- Cybernetic enhancements on crew members when the Eugenics War made humans, and through them the Federation, consider them to be anethema.
- The "Mass Effect" style bridge lighting and uniforms.
- A point I raised earlier that apparently the Federation doesn't shoot first, but they will commit a war crime (booby trapping a corpse).

There's more, but that seems quite enough to make a point for me. Early claims were that they would *seem* to be breaking canon but, after a couple of episodes, would turn that around in each case. Sure didn't seem that way to me and it's far enough off course that I abandoned ship.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top