D&D 5E 2 PC Wizards Copying Each others spell books

neogod22

Explorer
Wizards work fine whether they have the minimum spells in their spellbooks or have every wizard spell available in the game. It really isn't a balance concern, so you should feel free to do whatever will make for the best story.

In a situation like this, I like to look to the real world for inspiration. The closest analogy to spells is computer code. In the real world, you see some people that are willing to share code they write, while others don't want to share their code unless they are compensated - although once someone else gets their hands on your code, it is hard to keep them from spreading it around.

To translate that to the real world, I generally say that anything in the PHB can be found pretty easily as they are common spells that have 'entered the public domain'. I allow wizards to select any PHB spell as a spell they can gain when advancing a level - but in order to select a spell from another source, they have to explain to me where they gained access to the spell. Often this is something we roleplay out. I don't prevent them from selecting the spells, generally, but it sometimes gives us a story hook.

I also add a lot of spells to the game. I've had a book of 'personal' spells that I began in the 80s. I have converted them from AD&D to 2E to 3E to 5E, constantly adding more spells that I create or borrow from 3rd party sources. They're spells that my wizards created, spells that NPC wizards used, and spells that I put on scrolls. I find that having unique spells not found in the core books makes the game feel more immersive. Adding spells with a bit of mystery and uniqueness to them adds a lot to the game and makes it less of a 'cookie cutter' feel and more of a story.
I like this analogy, and your take on spells outside the PHB. I think spells should fall into 2 categories general (1-5th) and rare (6-9th). General spells you can stop at any major city friendly to wizards and get spell casting services or scrolls. A wizard should be able to buy scrolls from these levels.

Rare spells, (and you can add lower level spells from other books if you'd like) you would either have to find someone to teach you personally, research it yourself, or get your hands on a spellbook that has it. These spells are the ones that change reality, and so few wizards get powerful enough to cast at that level, they won't be easily found, nor would magic guilds allow access to these spells except to their most loyal followers. Plenty of story for this.

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Actually this is false. By default, the DM is the most important person at the table because he/she is running the game and providing a place for the characters to roam. The DM also does most of the work and most likely ends up paying the most money (PHB, DMG, MM etc....)

That realization and $4.65 will get you the venti caffe mocha at my nearby Starbucks. In other words, sure the DM is the most important single person at the table. Without one, you haven't got a game. But you haven't got a game without players either. It's just that players are a little more fungible, depending on your location. So declaring the DM the most important person at the table doesn't really get you much - he's still not running the game just to tell his story or gratify himself - he's doing it for everyone's benefit and mutual fun. Or, he'd better be or he won't have a game for long...
 

Corpsetaker

First Post
That realization and $4.65 will get you the venti caffe mocha at my nearby Starbucks. In other words, sure the DM is the most important single person at the table. Without one, you haven't got a game. But you haven't got a game without players either. It's just that players are a little more fungible, depending on your location. So declaring the DM the most important person at the table doesn't really get you much - he's still not running the game just to tell his story or gratify himself - he's doing it for everyone's benefit and mutual fun. Or, he'd better be or he won't have a game for long...

Sounds good on paper but doesn't really reflect reality. Unless the DM is just messing the game up just for the hell of it, most players will not agree to all leave the table. You might have one who is unhappy but nine times out of ten they all won't walk away. All it takes is one DM to walk away and game over. Let's not also forget that if the DM doesn't prepare anything then no game happens either.
 

5ekyu

Hero
Actually this is false. By default, the DM is the most important person at the table because he/she is running the game and providing a place for the characters to roam. The DM also does most of the work and most likely ends up paying the most money (PHB, DMG, MM etc....)
All of which is not getting played without players.

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5ekyu

Hero
Sounds good on paper but doesn't really reflect reality. Unless the DM is just messing the game up just for the hell of it, most players will not agree to all leave the table. You might have one who is unhappy but nine times out of ten they all won't walk away. All it takes is one DM to walk away and game over. Let's not also forget that if the DM doesn't prepare anything then no game happens either.
I will make this observation... Applies here as well as elsewhere... In mt experience where collaborative efforts are involved the one's where one of the folks involved views themselves as more important, more crucial or more indispensable than the others often are the ones which wind up with more interal problems and conflicts and less fun.

The ones in which everyone sees everyone else as an equakly valuable participant, tend to be better as far as those things go.


Relationships where one sets themselves above the other(s) only last until those other(s) decide they have had enough.



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Nevvur

Explorer
I will make this observation... Applies here as well as elsewhere... In mt experience where collaborative efforts are involved the one's where one of the folks involved views themselves as more important, more crucial or more indispensable than the others often are the ones which wind up with more interal problems and conflicts and less fun.

The ones in which everyone sees everyone else as an equakly valuable participant, tend to be better as far as those things go.


Relationships where one sets themselves above the other(s) only last until those other(s) decide they have had enough.



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Or the DM fires his players and gets some people who know how to play his game right.
 



Nevvur

Explorer
That does not change the basic point.

Perhaps AL writers are better at thinking of "poor" Wizard players, but AL scenarios are just a small part of the D&D experience of published adventures.

Actually, AL scenarios features significantly different and non-standard treasure distribution in general. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on them.

I wasn't contesting your point, and AL is indeed a small part of the larger D&D community. However, the authors of these adventures do receive official guidance about the amount of magic items they can dole out, so that's gotta be about as 'standard treasure distribution' as I can imagine. What I find interesting, and reinforces your point, is that the loot distribution rules regarding spellbooks do not treat them as permanent magical items. This indicates to me they approach the number of spells a wizard has in his spellbook as not essential to determining his overall power, at least not in a way that is comparable to a +N weapon or utility item.
 


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