D&D 5E 2 PC Wizards Copying Each others spell books

[Hussar]

Thank you.

As to your question, if you weren't speaking to me I am sorry. I assumed you were and your reply to my previous post was directed at me and said those same things I am objecting to. So to me all the evidence I had up until now was that you were speaking to me.

Honestly I don't really see how @Elfcrusher ever said it wasn't okay. He said he dislikes spell shops and sharing spells for the same reason he dislikes magic item shops. Clearly a personal preference and not an objective statement on his part IMO. If you took him differently and that's where those comments came from then that's fine. I don't want to get into an argument about what some third party's post meant or didn't mean.

If one person said I dont think it is a problem then no issue. It was that Most everyone did that. Why is that a problem? Because it was everyone assuming the worst case scenario in what I was saying. (Or perhaps what elfcrusher was saying).

Surely you can see how someone would feel it's toxic when everyone gangs up on them by assuming the worst about something they said. Especially when those assumptions weren't anywhere near true.

Heh. It's all good.

But, could I make a suggestion? When numerous people interpret your words a certain way, and it's not the way you intended, then perhaps clarifying your meaning would be more productive than insisting that everyone else is wrong or toxic? Written mediums are bad for conveying meaning and it's very easy for things to have a different meaning than what you intended.

If it was just one person, then, well, that's probably on them. But, when several people all take your words the same way, then that's on you.

 

[FrogReaver]

Heh. It's all good.

But, could I make a suggestion? When numerous people interpret your words a certain way, and it's not the way you intended, then perhaps clarifying your meaning would be more productive than insisting that everyone else is wrong or toxic? Written mediums are bad for conveying meaning and it's very easy for things to have a different meaning than what you intended.

If it was just one person, then, well, that's probably on them. But, when several people all take your words the same way, then that's on you.

More productive for discussing the thread topic. Of course. Though it would be less productive at trying to bring light to an issue that I feel is far to prevalent on this forum and that this thread highlights very well.

May I make a suggestion as well? Unless a thread is specifically asking for opinions on whether some X is "fine as is" then it's not nice to go into any thread and make comments like "X is fine as is". It ends up being annoying, frustrating, derailing etc. Personally I think toxic is a good summarization of such behavior.

 

[tardigrade]

my contention was that if two PC wizards can copy each other's spellbooks for nothing other than standard costs, with no risk of mishap or other gating mechanism, the inevitable logical conclusion (for any medium or high magic world) is that spells (copied, not cast) should be purchasable for a small commission. (BYOInk, of course).

I'd say based on actual history the most likely outcome would be individuals or cartels developing their own spells and jealously guarding them as trade secrets, trading spells containing glyphs of warding, industrial espionage, etc. Potentially 'signature spells' where the knowledge identifies you as a member of a particular group. And I consider this a situation with great adventure potential.

The *real* problem, in my opinion, is that spellcasters automatically learn spells selected from the whole list when they level up. This is solved by splitting the spell list into a 'core' list that can be learned spontaneously and a 'secret' list that can only be learned from other wizards or maybe researched if you know the school, material components etc and have seen it cast. You also need to reintroduce spell research.

 

[CapnZapp]

I recall numerous NPC spellbooks acquired by PCs while running AL Expeditions seasons 1-3.

That does not change the basic point.

Perhaps AL writers are better at thinking of "poor" Wizard players, but AL scenarios are just a small part of the D&D experience of published adventures.

Actually, AL scenarios features significantly different and non-standard treasure distribution in general. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on them.

 

[CapnZapp]

May I make a suggestion as well? Unless a thread is specifically asking for opinions on whether some X is "fine as is" then it's not nice to go into any thread and make comments like "X is fine as is". It ends up being annoying, frustrating, derailing etc. Personally I think toxic is a good summarization of such behavior.

If I didn't know better, I'd assume you must be new to EN World.

This forum hasn't moderated off-topic posts (generally what you call "toxic"; posts that question the fundamental premise of the thread starter - these posts generally shift the discussion away from what the OP wanted to talk about, to general and pointless arguing about whether you should even do what the OP wanted to talk about) in years

Answering questions such as "how do I do X?" with "don't do X, it's a bad idea" is par for the course. Myself, I would have liked such replies to lead to official red text where you are, at absolute minimum, asked to leave the thread, unless the poster makes an effort to back this up with real arguments and is also willing to humor the OP "if you really want to, here are my three suggestions".

Basically, if you see a thread "how do I stop Bards from flying" (or whatever) and your impulse is to say what a stupid idea that is, then you need to start a new thread rather than to poop all over the one you saw: "top 3 reasons Bards need to fly".

This allows the other poster to ignore your thread, and use the forum to discuss with like-minded without having to waste his time defending against accusations his idea is bad. If he is interested in learning more about why he maybe shouldn't press on with his idea he could always look through your thread.

I have myself felt greatly discouraged from discussing various subjects here at EN World, chiefly because a small clique opposing my every move. I even had the mods shut one thread down entirely when I could no longer just stand idly by when posters crapped all over my thread.

 

[Nevvur]

That does not change the basic point.

Perhaps AL writers are better at thinking of "poor" Wizard players, but AL scenarios are just a small part of the D&D experience of published adventures.

Actually, AL scenarios features significantly different and non-standard treasure distribution in general. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on them.

I'm not even sure what your point was. Just a spot correction.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm not even sure what your point was. Just a spot correction.

My point was and is that not finding any spellbooks to loot is not a bug that cripples your Wizard character.

If you expect spellbooks to feature as often as magic weapons (ie in nearly every adventure) you're probably better off playing another class.

If you're fine not finding more spells than your automatic allotment even though the warriors keep finding plus weapons, then you have the right mindset for a Wizard.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Ovinomancer]

If I didn't know better, I'd assume you must be new to EN World.

This forum hasn't moderated off-topic posts (generally what you call "toxic"; posts that question the fundamental premise of the thread starter - these posts generally shift the discussion away from what the OP wanted to talk about, to general and pointless arguing about whether you should even do what the OP wanted to talk about) in years

Answering questions such as "how do I do X?" with "don't do X, it's a bad idea" is par for the course. Myself, I would have liked such replies to lead to official red text where you are, at absolute minimum, asked to leave the thread, unless the poster makes an effort to back this up with real arguments and is also willing to humor the OP "if you really want to, here are my three suggestions".

Basically, if you see a thread "how do I stop Bards from flying" (or whatever) and your impulse is to say what a stupid idea that is, then you need to start a new thread rather than to poop all over the one you saw: "top 3 reasons Bards need to fly".

This allows the other poster to ignore your thread, and use the forum to discuss with like-minded without having to waste his time defending against accusations his idea is bad. If he is interested in learning more about why he maybe shouldn't press on with his idea he could always look through your thread.

I have myself felt greatly discouraged from discussing various subjects here at EN World, chiefly because a small clique opposing my every move. I even had the mods shut one thread down entirely when I could no longer just stand idly by when posters crapped all over my thread.

Not being able to control what other people can say sure is a real bummer, amiright? #notalldictators

 

[JacktheRabbit]

My point was and is that not finding any spellbooks to loot is not a bug that cripples your Wizard character.

If you expect spellbooks to feature as often as magic weapons (ie in nearly every adventure) you're probably better off playing another class.

If you're fine not finding more spells than your automatic allotment even though the warriors keep finding plus weapons, then you have the right mindset for a Wizard.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

One of the main points of a wizard is to be the swiss army knife with MANY more options than the party sorcerer. By your logic that is not true.

Sent from my [device_name] using EN World mobile app

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

One of the main points of a wizard is to be the swiss army knife with MANY more options than the party sorcerer. By your logic that is not true.

Even without finding additional spells other than the two you gain every level, you still have considerably more spells available to you than the Sorceror.

(Who gets more actual options is a matter for debate, because each variation of a spell combined with metamagic could be regarded as an additional option for the sorcerer.)