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[5e] Contagion Redux

CapnZapp

Legend
Last week, this spell finally saw play in our group. And it was as broken as everybody had said. After reading up on the particulars, here's my version.

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V S
Duration: 7 days
Classes: Cleric, Druid
You touch a creature, and that creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or become diseased (your choice from any of the ones described below) for the duration of the spell. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make another Constitution saving throw. On a success, the spell ends on the target.

After failing three of these saving throws, the disease's effects last for the Duration, and the creature stops making these saves. Furthermore the diseased creature becomes contagious: each hour or part thereof spent in close proximity with the target means a creature is afflicted as if you cast this spell on it. At the end of the Duration, the creature makes one final Constitution saving throw. On a failure, the creature dies.

Undead and constructs are immune to this spell. The disease is magical and cannot be cured by mundane medicine. If magic is used to cure the disease, and a spell slot of lower level than you used to cast this spell was used, the healer needs to make a spellcasting check against your spell save DC. If a spell slot of equal or higher level is used, the disease is cured automatically.


(list of diseases per PHB)
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
The part in italic blue is "optional" in that it ensures the spell's story qualities - when it is used for plot purposes, rather than a mere combat debuff. All the major campaign-related complaint against the spells have been addressed: the undead immunity, the lack of actual contagion, the way a regular disease is trivial to heal.

The main black part ensures the spell works as a "mere" combat debuff - it is no longer horribly broken, and unlike the Sage Advice interpretation, it is not nerfed into uselessness as a combat spell. As you can see, I've tried to change as little as possible. Instead of making an attack roll (which bypasses legendary resistance) the spell is modeled on Bestow Curse - it's now a "touch save" spell.

This way you can both eat the cake and have it too.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Could worry it is too deadly out of combat... what if the spreading effect only applied to the initial target?

In combat I think it might actually still be too good, just because of slimy doom. Change it to having vulnerability to all damage instead of stun? Or drop the disadvantage on Con saves?
 
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Maybe this is a feature and not a bug, but it is one thing to zap a hobgoblin to mess with a squad of them, but if this was cast in a city, half the city could be messed up in 7 days. That is more control weather level of power than 5th level spell. I would have it last 1 day at 5th level, 2 at 6th, 3 at 7th, 4 at 8th, and big jump to 7 days at 9th, or otherwise limit it to a number of creatures it can affect so that unlimited is at 8th level.

Otherwise I like it a lot.
 


jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
As I posted in the previous Contagion Spell Thread

Jeremy Crawford‏ [MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford · 29 May 2015
The effects of the contagion spell's disease are meant to activate after three failed saving throws.

Link to the Tweet https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/...297088?lang=en

Also in Sage Advise http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat...wers-june-2016

Then Sage Advise Compendium http://media.wizards.com/2016/downlo...Compendium.pdf
Well yes, but that isn't really relevant to CapnZapp's homebrew version of the spell.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
As I posted in the previous Contagion Spell Thread
As somebody told you there - we already know this, and Sage Advice doesn't really satisfy. The spell becomes useless for the combat crowd and the SA does not address any of the story crowd's complaints.

All Sage Advice does is make the spell go from horribly broken to useless. Granted, broken was worse than useless. But we can do better. In fact, I can do better - as posted above :)
 

As somebody told you there - we already know this, and Sage Advice doesn't really satisfy. The spell becomes useless for the combat crowd and the SA does not address any of the story crowd's complaints.

All Sage Advice does is make the spell go from horribly broken to useless. Granted, broken was worse than useless. But we can do better. In fact, I can do better - as posted above :)

It's not useless. A character getting this cast on them could be very debilitated. It's just not as useful for players as they normally kill enemies before this would come into play.

Pretty much it's a better spell for enemies rather then Players. If a player does not feel it would be useful then the player does not have to use it, after all they have tons of other choices when it comes to spells. Rather then making this spell really good in combat just for the sake of making the spell really good. I would keep it as is even if it's not best for players in this case. Spells are not created equally and fill different purposes.

The main thing I don't understand is why you had to make yet another thread for this when you already had one.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
It's not useless. A character getting this cast on them could be very debilitated. It's just not as useful for players as they normally kill enemies before this would come into play.

Pretty much it's a better spell for enemies rather then Players. If a player does not feel it would be useful then the player does not have to use it, after all they have tons of other choices when it comes to spells. Rather then making this spell really good in combat just for the sake of making the spell really good. I would keep it as is even if it's not best for players in this case. Spells are not created equally and fill different purposes.

The main thing I don't understand is why you had to make yet another thread for this when you already had one.
You seem to have missed that this thread is about my Redux of Contagion, not the spell in general.
 


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