DMs - How do you treat Healing Word?

5ekyu · May 24, 2018

"You won't see whack-a-mole based specifically on number of creatures or mulit-attack. Initiative is rolled per group of creatures by the DM."

The dm group initiative rule is for "identical" creatures and only the most basic simplest multi-foe combats result in the all-one side then all-other side you describe.

Ogres with orcs or goblins with wolves or even just leaders, shamans, skirmishers and calvary create multiple "groups" even if they are groups of 1.

I am **not** on the OPHW mole crisis ruins dnd quoth-streamer-gods-from-on-high side but the assessnents have to include a variety of common combat encounter setups to have meaning.

aco175 · May 24, 2018

I could see some creatures getting a attack of opportunity on PCs lying next to them that get healed. Not all of them to nerf the spell, but a single monster like orcs, or a certain bad guy NPC, like a thug designed as a leader of some sort. Maybe this is more a template added to certain monsters. I kind of view it as a jerk move on the DMs part unless there is a reason for it. Cinema-graphically it is cool for the thug leader of the local thieves to "look at the rest of the PCs, smile and slice the throat of the fighter", but it may come across as you telling the fighter's player "Dude, I'm killing your character, maybe next time don't be the hero fighter that runs up".

I also do not have the PCs at my table taking time to deliver a killing blow to monsters. It sometimes comes up where a bad guy gets healed and rises again, or a mass heal targets several of the bad guys. I have not had any complaints from my players about players argue that one of the monsters should have been dead and not just dying.

UngeheuerLich · May 24, 2018

Hmm, I think all you need to do is not resetting death saving throws after one round after healing was used on you. That way, it is way more risky to "revive a fallen" comrade.

Satyrn · May 24, 2018

vlysses said:
But in any case, because of this, I don't quite see the danger of the game descending into whackamole mode... Or am I missing something?

I've only seen whackamole played once at my table . . . and my character was the mole. :erm:

Anyway, it was cure wounds and the paladin laying on hands that kept me popping up, which leads me to guess that, since whackamole can be played with any sort of healing, if groups are seeing it played a lot then the problem isn't healing word.

Oofta · May 24, 2018

I think the issue of whack-a-mole is overblown.

I also think that different monsters should deal with it differently. Group being attack by wild animals? Once a PC is down they drag the hapless PC off into the bushes to be eaten. If this is a monster that uses pack tactics (wolves, lions, T-Rex), they may even assist each other in this endeavor.

Some monsters are going to hit you while you're down. Demons in my world are often particularly bloodthirsty and vicious in this way. It's not really dead until it's in chunks.

Some monsters are going to realize who is doing the healing and focus fire on them. Hobgoblins in my campaign do that frequently.

Some, like gnolls, may just get distracted and start eating.

The point is to have the monster's actions reflect their nature.

devincutler · May 25, 2018

Patrick McGill said:
Yep, this to me is the answer. Injuries or wounds when you hit 0 hp regardless whether or not you are stabilized.

The injuries in the DM's Guide, however, are a bit too extreme for my tastes. I'd like there to be a range from mild to severe rather than all of them being severe.

You really consider ALL of the DMG injuries to be severe?

Even the one where you get a scar and have advantage on Intimidation checks and disadvantage on Persuasion? Is that severe?

Or the limp result?

Or the broken rib result?

Sorry to contradict you, but most of the results on that chart are both not severe and easily mended (most require a single point of magical healing...goodberry anyone?).

Yes, a few are severe, but it is not as horrible as you think.

BTW, I use that table but roll a d100, with results over 20 being no injury.

devincutler · May 25, 2018

Oofta said:
I think the issue of whack-a-mole is overblown.

I also think that different monsters should deal with it differently. Group being attack by wild animals? Once a PC is down they drag the hapless PC off into the bushes to be eaten. If this is a monster that uses pack tactics (wolves, lions, T-Rex), they may even assist each other in this endeavor.

Some monsters are going to hit you while you're down. Demons in my world are often particularly bloodthirsty and vicious in this way. It's not really dead until it's in chunks.

Some monsters are going to realize who is doing the healing and focus fire on them. Hobgoblins in my campaign do that frequently.

Some, like gnolls, may just get distracted and start eating.

The point is to have the monster's actions reflect their nature.

Almost no predator (i.e. the gnolls) will deign to eat while being threatened. It just doesn't happen with sentient creatures.

Even demons in my world prefer to capture and torture or play with or ritually consume their souls.

Very few creatures, intelligent or otherwise, will waste a round attacking a downed foe UNLESS that foe is particularly more dangerous than the others and has shown a propensity for standing back up.

Ashrym · May 25, 2018

5ekyu said:
"You won't see whack-a-mole based specifically on number of creatures or mulit-attack. Initiative is rolled per group of creatures by the DM."

The dm group initiative rule is for "identical" creatures and only the most basic simplest multi-foe combats result in the all-one side then all-other side you describe.

Ogres with orcs or goblins with wolves or even just leaders, shamans, skirmishers and calvary create multiple "groups" even if they are groups of 1.

I think you're over-selling. In my experience, most encounters are not large groups of organized humanoids with leadership and military support. I get the impression of mass combat and a complex encounter based on your description.

Those encounters obviously exist but I don't believe it's fair to say a that typical encounter has several different groups in it.

5ekyu · May 25, 2018

UngeheuerLich said:
Hmm, I think all you need to do is not resetting death saving throws after one round after healing was used on you. That way, it is way more risky to "revive a fallen" comrade.

Its not more risky than,leaving them down.

5ekyu · May 25, 2018

Ashrym said:
I think you're over-selling. In my experience, most encounters are not large groups of organized humanoids with leadership and military support. I get the impression of mass combat and a complex encounter based on your description.

Those encounters obviously exist but I don't believe it's fair to say a that typical encounter has several different groups in it.

I did not say "most encounters", did I?

I was responding to a post wgich setup the group init as one roll for each side - period.

My closing point was literally that you need "to include a variety of common encounter setups" in assessments.

So, i thought i was pushing inclusivity, versatility and variety - not overselling one-way-onlies.

That said, even allowing for table variance, the context of this discussion is healing word and whack-a-mole (as was the comment about hoe the one group initiative and the specific interplay with healing and whack) - so that leads us to bigger, longer encounters where pcs not only get dropped to zero but multiple times.

Not "most encpunters" at all, but the ones **most likely** to have healing word and initiative order be important or relevant at all for whack-a-mole.

Not saying my experience is anything but that, however **in my experience** in actual play *plus* the typical "tougher" high risk encounters in published scenarios these life and death scenarios are more likely to be either "one really big monster" (dragon, etc) or multiple types of creatures of different scales and abilities.

The encounters with some number of "identical creatures" tend to be more warm-up variety and really unlikely to be the ones dropping pcs multiple times.

Obviously this is not a rule just one way things seem to play out.

Maybe in your campaigns its different and instead of BBEG boss with minions fights as the life and death ones you have just many same-as-the-others "most" of the time.