How do you like to handle dungeon mapping?

Hiya!

You guys are...mostly...a rather odd bunch!

I can't imagine NOT having the players make a map...usually on graph paper with 5' or 10' squares. There is, to me, something just so, well, satisfying seeing a map get made and seeing the players staring at it trying to make decisions.

I've always encouraged players make a map. Yes, even a line map. Those adventuring without a map are...well, lets just say that frequently they become the "dungeon dressing" that the back of the 1e DMG has listed on various 1d100 tables.

The key thing is to develop, as a DM, a method of description. I've been doing this DM thing for a LONG time now (longer than a lot of folks playing have been alive). It took me a good year or so to develop the best way for me to describe stuff to my players. It's consistent, and it's fast. Every DM needs to do this. Then stick to it. Your players will learn what you mean when you say "You see a standard corridor heading east for about 40' where it turns into a Y intersection with 5' corridors".

How I do it, is "...it goes X distance...and then...". Meaning the player draws X distance. Stop. THEN continues with the next bit.

Example: [assuming 10' squares] "The corridor goes North for 60' and then you see a side passage, 10' wide, heading off East. The main passage you are on continues North for another 20' and looks like it turns into a curve to the North-West". The player would draw a 60' corridor. Simple. The next 10' (the "70th feet square") would be a corridor going east. Simple. The player then continues the main corridor (the "80th feet square") for 20' more. Still simple. Then (in the "100th feet square"), the player would lightly draw the corridor curving to the NW.

Rooms and chambers are handled the same way. A distinction between "room" and "chamber"; A Room is enclosed via portals that open/close (doors, typically). A Chamber is much the same, but has at least one portal that is not blocked (a hallway, for example).

Example: "The door opens into a room, 40' west-east, and 50' north south. The door you entered is in the south room, 10' away from the south-west corner. There are two other doors in the room. One on the west wall, in the center, and one in the north wall, 10' away from the north-east corner. Evenly spaced columns, about 10' apart, starting 10' away from the south wall, run down the center of the room".

Should be easy to understand, right? The key to my "mapping descriptions" is the use of "...away from..." and "...go's for...and then...". This makes it much easier than trying to describe each wall. The only time I describe specific wall lengths and angles is when you get one of those really odd-shaped rooms (Temple of Elemental Evil has quite a few!). So "Starting at the west side of the door you entered...west 20', north 20', north-west at 45 degree angle for 20', north 10' (in that 10' is a door), then north-east 20', east 30', south 70', to the door".

When things get REALLY weird...angled walls that are not at 45 degrees for example... I use a "count up/over" method. Basically the player stops drawing and then "counts" a distance up/over to place a dot; draw a line between that dot and the last 'wall' the player drew. I'll usually describe it as "an odd angle" so the player knows what's going on there.

Anyway, as I said, the key thing is consistency. Once you and your players understand the same "mapping language", mapping is surprisingly easy and fast. It also lets multiple players make a map (which happens on occasion; when one player wants a map for himself for his character's portfolio). My players are so good at it now that if there is a "trick" in the dungeon (like rotating walls, or a non-obvious teleporting area), they go back over the area and I describe it. They know I am describing it the 'same way', so when they see a 50' corridor where there should be an 80' corridor, they know that something is up (usually...they do second-guess themselves sometimes and this is quite amusing to the sadistic DM side of me! ).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

In person:
When room layout is important, I prepare a map on a grid mat ahead of time and cover segments the players haven’t seen with black construction paper, revealing new areas as the PCs enter them. I leave those segments uncovered, as an abstract representation of the characters’ mental map, assuming they’re capable enough to remember accurately. When layout doesn’t matter, I keep to descriptions and leave players to sort out any note taking they may want to do themselves.

Online:
I make maps in roll20 and let dynamic lighting do the work. If players want to make their own maps, that’s their call. I likewise assume if players want to “go back to the room where we fought the black pudding” or whatever, I assume their characters have an accurate enough mental picture of the space to get them there.

pming said:

Hiya!

You guys are...mostly...a rather odd bunch!

I can't imagine NOT having the players make a map...usually on graph paper with 5' or 10' squares. There is, to me, something just so, well, satisfying seeing a map get made and seeing the players staring at it trying to make decisions.

I've always encouraged players make a map. Yes, even a line map. Those adventuring without a map are...well, lets just say that frequently they become the "dungeon dressing" that the back of the 1e DMG has listed on various 1d100 tables.

Click to expand...

I think this made more sense in an edition without passive Perception, Activities While Traveling, and ability checks. The players' map was part of trying to figure out where all the hidden stuff was in the dungeon. With current DM skills like telegraphing and the aforementioned mechanics, I can't see mapping as you describe as a good use of table time unless the players just really like doing it. I also find a focus on distances and directions are a little more dry than I would like when describing the environment.

I've been projecting a map onto a big screen TV via Roll20 and let the players move their tokens with a wireless mouse.

In my current game if they are mapping, and they better be, a PC has to be designated as mapper and he is mapping. Part of the party roles that are specified, bearing a torch, lugging the chest, etc. Its far less necessary to have accurate room sizes and layouts than to have a general layout of the corridors connecting them so you know better where to flee.

I lay most of the dungeon out on the table with Dwarven Forge and Hirst Arts pieces.

Mapping is something I used to insist on back in the day, but my players these days view it mostly as a chore.

A thought occurs to me while reading this: how has our changing relationship with mapping as a culture affected our changed relationship with mapping as gamers? Until a few years ago, having a map to a place meant consulting a general map of an area and determining the route between two points (which might not be at a great scale on the given map); in many cases, there might only be a list of directions to use and one would need to sketch up a rough map of their own (who didn’t do as much on old invitations and the like?). Then the advent of MapQuest, Google Maps, and such allowed us to create custom maps and directions easily before leaving to go somewhere with just two addresses. Now, a bevy of apps on our phones or GPS devices will map and remap directions for us as we go and tell us how to turn (such that many folks don’t even look at the directions ahead of time after punching in the destination).

Certainly, younger players don’t have the same history of using and creating maps in their daily life as older players previously had, but even those older players are mostly out of practice — and that reliance on external mapping changes how our brain thinks about directions and such (like getting out of the habit of math that you don’t use). Decades ago, mapping at the table was a chore but something that could be done fairly automatically if the DM gave good descriptions because the players likely thought in terms of maps differently (for a related example, I’m reminded of how I take minutes at meetings more quickly and more detailed than many others in groups that I’m in, because I started being a recording secretary while still a grad student and thus used to taking extensive live notes during lectures).

If we generally rely on devices to generate maps for us — or to tell us directions without ever showing us a map — in normal journeys instead of traveling with a self-created of self-altered map, we’re not going to have those skills at the ready at the gaming table as players. So, as a gaming culture, we alter how we create and present maps to players. I can’t say that this is in any way the complete answer (had the tools to render maps electronically existed in the past as they do today, DMs and groups certainly would have used them more), but I feel that it has to play some role in the transition ‘generationally.’

AmerginLiath said:

A thought occurs to me while reading this: how has our changing relationship with mapping as a culture affected our changed relationship with mapping as gamers? Until a few years ago, having a map to a place meant consulting a general map of an area and determining the route between two points (which might not be at a great scale on the given map); in many cases, there might only be a list of directions to use and one would need to sketch up a rough map of their own (who didn’t do as much on old invitations and the like?). Then the advent of MapQuest, Google Maps, and such allowed us to create custom maps and directions easily before leaving to go somewhere with just two addresses. Now, a bevy of apps on our phones or GPS devices will map and remap directions for us as we go and tell us how to turn (such that many folks don’t even look at the directions ahead of time after punching in the destination).

Certainly, younger players don’t have the same history of using and creating maps in their daily life as older players previously had, but even those older players are mostly out of practice — and that reliance on external mapping changes how our brain thinks about directions and such (like getting out of the habit of math that you don’t use). Decades ago, mapping at the table was a chore but something that could be done fairly automatically if the DM gave good descriptions because the players likely thought in terms of maps differently (for a related example, I’m reminded of how I take minutes at meetings more quickly and more detailed than many others in groups that I’m in, because I started being a recording secretary while still a grad student and thus used to taking extensive live notes during lectures).

If we generally rely on devices to generate maps for us — or to tell us directions without ever showing us a map — in normal journeys instead of traveling with a self-created of self-altered map, we’re not going to have those skills at the ready at the gaming table as players. So, as a gaming culture, we alter how we create and present maps to players. I can’t say that this is in any way the complete answer (had the tools to render maps electronically existed in the past as they do today, DMs and groups certainly would have used them more), but I feel that it has to play some role in the transition ‘generationally.’

Click to expand...

I have a terrible sense of direction. It's gotten to the point where my car just lets out an exasperated sigh when I screw up following its explicit driving directions.

Hiya!

iserith said:

I think this made more sense in an edition without passive Perception, Activities While Traveling, and ability checks. The players' map was part of trying to figure out where all the hidden stuff was in the dungeon. With current DM skills like telegraphing and the aforementioned mechanics, I can't see mapping as you describe as a good use of table time unless the players just really like doing it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, as I said... you people are weird!

When I describe for mapping, it's just that; for mapping. After that, then I get into the ooey-gooey details we all love!

When players don't map, or have no time to map (being chased by a monster, for example), or they loose the map I allow PC's to make Int saves to remember which way they came and what is where (a Thief can add his Proficiency bonus as well; thieves are good at observing their surroundings more than others in my games).

iserith said:

I also find a focus on distances and directions are a little more dry than I would like when describing the environment.

Click to expand...

As I said...mapping first, then the describing. Hand in hand they help players pick out little things they might have not noticed if I just handed them a map. At least in my experience. Besides, having a hand-drawn map of the Caves of Chaos, with notations, scribbles, doodles, drink and food stains, and all the creases, folds and small tear's, at least to me, is VERY cool! Looking back on a PC you played some 30 years ago and finding the map...as you look at it you instantly remember everything that happened. "This is where Norg the cleric of Odin supposedly died holding off the zombies...and over here was that room we almost had a TPK from that fire trap in the statue! I have no idea what 'stone thing; Norg knows something; eyeball him' means though..."

Maps are awesome.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

iserith said:

I have a terrible sense of direction. It's gotten to the point where my car just lets out an exasperated sigh when I screw up following its explicit driving directions.

Click to expand...

Spatial awareness isn't a strong suit for all people.

Regardless, while there could be some merit to the hypothesis, I felt precise player mapping was a chore long before the advent of GPS and smart phones. Applying discrete distances and precise measurements relative to imaginary elements that are wholly reliant upon the consistent degree of the DM's ability to deliver clear, concise, and accurate descriptions while staying constantly mindful of the mapper's ability to correctly translate that verbal information to paper is not how I want to spend my time at the table.