The Ruffian: an Idea for a Strength-build Rogue Archetype

Grognerd

Explorer
Hello! First time poster here! In fact, I created this account just so I could run this build by y'all's critical eyes and see what you thought of it!

While I love the traditional rogue, the sly and dextrous type, I'm open to other ideas and woudln't mind seeing a viable Strength-build character. On the other hand, it still needs to play like a Rogue, and not just be a Fighter with underworld trappings. Also, I wanted it to be balanced with current official options so that it was viable but not twinked out. As such, I did try to error on the side of caution. So with this in mind, I developed the following. Please look it over and let me know what you think. All criticism - constructive or otherwise - is welcome!

(If this is in the wrong area, please let me know and/or move it to the correct forum. Also, I know there are other Strength-builds out there, but I haven't looked at them. I wanted this one to be my own and to get an idea of this one's viability before checking out others' approaches.)

The Ruffian (a Strength-Build Rogue Archetype)
The ruffian is a thief, a con artist, and a sneak, just like any other rogue. But unlike other rogues, ruffians do not shy away from the rougher aspects of the underworld. They are not thuggish fighters, but they are ruthless, efficient, and as brutally violent as they need to be to accomplish whatever mission they have set before them.

Level 3:
Dole it Out, Take it Back
Masters of the art of pain, ruffians gain proficiency in all one-handed/non-Heavy martial melee weapons. They may also use these weapons when conducting a Sneak Attack, and double the weapon’s damage die when doing so.
(Example: A 3rd Lvl. Ruffian with a 16 STR sneak attacking with a longsword would inflict 2d8 (double the longsword damage)+2d6 (their Sneak Attack modifier)+3 (their Strength modifier) in damage.)
Further, ruffians’ background in violence has taught them both to roll with punches as well as to brace and take a hit. They may choose to substitute their STR modifier for their DEX modifier when determining Armor Class, with the same restrictions (ie. Light Armor receives the full modifier, Medium Armor only up to +2 [+3 with Medium Armor Mastery], and Full Armor receives no benefit).
Finally, ruffians may always opt to use their Strength rather than their Charisma for Intimidation checks.

Level 9:
Mugging Mastery
At 9th level, ruffians have become so adept at the art of “forceful withdrawal” from their targets that when conducting a Sneak Attack, they may use a Bonus Action to either make a second attack (without the Sneak Attack bonus) or use their Sleight of Hand skill to pick the victim’s pocket or plant an item on the target. If the Sleight of Hand skill is used, the target has Disadvantage to notice the skill use due to the distraction of the attack.

Level 13:
Frightening Implications
At this level, the ruffian has practiced “aggressive negotiations” enough that they always use Intimidation with Advantage unless something would otherwise make it impossible or Disadvantaged (in which case they use Intimidation as normal). Those intimidated by the ruffian suffer the same penalties as if they were Frightened until the end of the ruffian’s next turn.

Level 17:
Lingering Pain
The ruffian has mastered not only the ability to inflict pain, but also the ability to make that injury linger. They may choose to inflict lingering pain on the target of a successful Sneak Attack, requiring a CON Save against DC (8+Proficiency Bonus+Strength). If the victim fails the save, they immediately gain one level of Exhaustion. The ruffian may do this three times; the ability is reset after a Long Rest.

So... what do you think?
 

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Gwarok

Explorer
Well, I don't know if this needs a whole subclass. This is easily represented by a STR based rogue stat wise, with a level or 2 of Fighter perhaps. But for feats give him Tavern Brawler to make him a bit more dangerous unarmed, take expertise from the rogue levels in Athletics. That will make them able to grapple and fight bare knuckled well. Later on, maybe throw in some Toughness. I made an ideal thug boss for one of my campaigns. Even though the party level was 12th, this guy was only 10th, and a decent fight unarmed and unarmored. Was 5 Rogue/ 5 Barbarian with 18 STR and CON. Fast, 2 attacks, got +12 to grapple checks and could initiate with a hit. Had a 17 AC buck naked too. Good muscle guy, could walk around town unarmed so as not to attack too much attention.

Anyways, seems like you a whole new subclass is a bit overkill, but if you get one made have fun with it!
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
I think there should be a subclass for str-based rogues. The revised one you have posted seems quite good at a first glance. Well done.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
One more thing: is there a secret to downloading from the Homebrewery? I am unable to get a pdf of the page as presented at the link. I assume I am missing something obvious.
 

Slit518

Adventurer
I play a Strength based Assassin, so this would of been a decent alternative. Though, I liked the Assassinate feature of the Assassin.
Either way, I like it.
 

Grognerd

Explorer
Well, I don't know if this needs a whole subclass. This is easily represented by a STR based rogue stat wise, with a level or 2 of Fighter perhaps. ... Anyways, seems like you a whole new subclass is a bit overkill, but if you get one made have fun with it!

Well, part of the thing is that I explicitly did not want a multiclass. Taking levels in Fighter produces a Fighter-Thief. That's not what the purpose was. The purpose was a thuggish rogue, not a multiclass. I am aware that you could do it a different way. But this had a different and, to be frank, more refined purpose.


I think there should be a subclass for str-based rogues. The revised one you have posted seems quite good at a first glance. Well done.
And
One more thing: is there a secret to downloading from the Homebrewery? I am unable to get a pdf of the page as presented at the link. I assume I am missing something obvious.

Thanks Kobald! I appreciate that! I'm not sure why Homebrewery isn't showing for you. Don't assume it's your error; this was my first time using Homebrewery and maybe I have a setting wrong?

I play a Strength based Assassin, so this would of been a decent alternative. Though, I liked the Assassinate feature of the Assassin.
Either way, I like it.

Thanks much, Slit!
 

Volund

Explorer
At third level I would add, "You can sneak attack with weapons that have the thrown property." Jeremy Crawford has tweeted that throwing a melee weapon does not turn it into a ranged weapon, so without this change, your strength rogue will not be able to SA with any of the non-finesse simple melee weapons with the thrown property. Your 3rd level ability as written will cover thrown martial melee weapons (trident) but not simple melee weapons. From personal experience, one of the sucky things about playing a str rogue is when your DM won't let you SA with a hand axe, javelin, or spear, so your choices are using a bow with your lower dex or throwing a dagger.

I think the extra weapon damage on a SA and substituting str for dex for AC are too much. Opening up SA to one-handed martial weapons is good enough, but if you have to add more dmg then maybe let the ruffian use SA with weapons that have the versatile property. For AC I would grant proficiency with med armor. A str rogue still probably wants a dex of at least 14 for initiative, saves, skills, and thieves' tools so this would be roughly equal to adding str to light armor.

I like what you are doing with intimidation and str but at 13th level you are devoting a high-level ability to a skill check that might not come up very often. Instead at 13th level I would give the ruffian a menacing attack, similar to the battle master maneuver, that triggers on a successful SA. Can be used a number of times equal to str mod, recharging on a short rest.
 

Grognerd

Explorer
At third level I would add, "You can sneak attack with weapons that have the thrown property." Jeremy Crawford has tweeted that throwing a melee weapon does not turn it into a ranged weapon, so without this change, your strength rogue will not be able to SA with any of the non-finesse simple melee weapons with the thrown property. Your 3rd level ability as written will cover thrown martial melee weapons (trident) but not simple melee weapons. From personal experience, one of the sucky things about playing a str rogue is when your DM won't let you SA with a hand axe, javelin, or spear, so your choices are using a bow with your lower dex or throwing a dagger.

Actually, no... you wouldn’t gain the benefits of the Sneak Attack bonus with any ranged attack. This is for melee Sneak Attacks only, as it says. Ranged attacks use normal SA rules.

That’s a feature not a bug.

Your other comments are covered in the changes made between the OP and the PDF.
 

I think it's a bit overcomplex. I would simply say "can sneak attack with any weapon you are proficient in that doesn't have the two handed or heavy property". + You gain proficiency with one additional martial weapon of your choice. At each subclass pip I would grant another martial weapon proficiency.

NB you could choose two handed sword as your extra proficiency, you just wouldn't be able to sneak attack with it. You would still gain SA with longsword and thrown.
 

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