Dragon Heist TPK


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If he wants to get away, plane shift seems like a good option.

He has multiple options. There’s basically no way a 1st level party stops him from leaving, which is what the DM is told he’s trying to do.

It doesn’t matter if the PCs are dumb or bloodthirsty or whatever — they lack the ability to prevent the “villain” from leaving. So the DM had to change the encounter to get a TPK out of it — at least one involving that “villain.” His minions could still cause a TPK, in theory.
 

He has multiple options. There’s basically no way a 1st level party stops him from leaving, which is what the DM is told he’s trying to do.

It doesn’t matter if the PCs are dumb or bloodthirsty or whatever — they lack the ability to prevent the “villain” from leaving. So the DM had to change the encounter to get a TPK out of it — at least one involving that “villain.” His minions could still cause a TPK, in theory.

Yeah, the two other minions are a tough fight - but then again, this is supposed to be the climactic encounter for the 1st level party, so it's presumably designed to be tough.

But as for the big "villain", yes, he should be able to escape easily before most of any regular-sized adventuring group should be able to get into a position to potentially block him. One of his minions is positioned in the center of the room well in front of him, and should restrict access to the back of the room where the "villain" starts out. I can only assume that the members of the OP's group had some decidedly lucky rolls (well, lucky only at first, considering what the rolls ultimately led to), while the "villain" and minion #2 got exceptionally unlucky in initiative for there to be enough PCs to be able to get in position to block him leaving the room.

The simplest way to counteract this would be to have the "villain" simply act and leave as the party enters the room, or have the party momentarily stunned by what they see (as 1st level characters they probably aren't prepared for that sight, even being from Waterdeep), and have him escape even before initiative is rolled...
 

sim-h

Explorer
I don't know the encounter/adventure yet but: Just have him stop the fight for an instant (i.e. on his first turn) and threaten the PCs with whatever higher level ability can kill them unless they back off NOW. Back it up with 'your insight tells you he/she means it'

There is a similar encounter in PotA although there is less incentive to attack that NPC. He basically announces that unless they immediately stop attacking, he will <words to the effect of> cast Cloudkill on them, seal the exits and leave them to die.

The players might be confused and ask "what, aren't we supposed to attack him now" in which case you reply..."perhaps not..."
 

Ymdar

Explorer
I haven't read Dragon Heist, so don't know if the other details in the module would support this idea, but I kind of like the idea of using a session one TPK as a prelude to a short, 'The Sting' style campaign.

Session one, the party ends up somewhere they really shouldn't be, encounters the big-bad, and decides 'if we don't kill him, we don't get XP!', so attacks. They get wiped. DM announces, "If you're still interested, bring a character for next time who knew and admired one of the characters who were just killed."

The next session introduces the new characters at memorials for the dead characters. Some NPCs express anger at the big-bad that he/she/it won't be brought to justice for the killings; most just express their disappointment, 'such a shame', that sort of thing.

The party gets together with a sympathetic NPC to figure out what to do to get justice/revenge. It seems pretty clear that they can't just attack the big-bad and go for a killing of their own -- the big-bad is clearly powerful, plus the NPC points out that the big-bad has connections and will just be brought back from the dead even if they miraculously succeed. No, what they need is to hurt the big-bad in a way that can't just be bounced back from, preferably while making the big-bad look foolish in the process.

They need to swindle the big-bad out of his/her/its greatest treasure.

Begin campaign. I know I'd be excited as hell for something like this.

--
Pauper

This is really good. I even suggest a funeral instead of a memorial with flowers and rain and everything. You could play the sound of silence and the new characters would get the trinkets of the old one from one of the NPCs.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
I haven't read Dragon Heist, so don't know if the other details in the module would support this idea, but I kind of like the idea of using a session one TPK as a prelude to a short, 'The Sting' style campaign.

Session one, the party ends up somewhere they really shouldn't be, encounters the big-bad, and decides 'if we don't kill him, we don't get XP!', so attacks. They get wiped. DM announces, "If you're still interested, bring a character for next time who knew and admired one of the characters who were just killed."

The next session introduces the new characters at memorials for the dead characters. Some NPCs express anger at the big-bad that he/she/it won't be brought to justice for the killings; most just express their disappointment, 'such a shame', that sort of thing.

The party gets together with a sympathetic NPC to figure out what to do to get justice/revenge. It seems pretty clear that they can't just attack the big-bad and go for a killing of their own -- the big-bad is clearly powerful, plus the NPC points out that the big-bad has connections and will just be brought back from the dead even if they miraculously succeed. No, what they need is to hurt the big-bad in a way that can't just be bounced back from, preferably while making the big-bad look foolish in the process.

They need to swindle the big-bad out of his/her/its greatest treasure.

Begin campaign. I know I'd be excited as hell for something like this.

--
Pauper

I love this setup to the adventure,even without an initial TPK! Much more distinctive than the one in the book.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
You could play The Sound Of Silence
You can even foreshadow the tone of the adventure: use Simon and Garfunkel* if the PCs will overcome Evil in the end. Use the Disturbd remake** if the PCs should expect not to.

* light and dreamy, emphasizes the warning nature of the vision
* heavy and ominous, emphasizes the wrong / bad / misguidedness aspects of the vision
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
You can even foreshadow the tone of the adventure: use Simon and Garfunkel* if the PCs will overcome Evil in the end. Use the Disturbd remake** if the PCs should expect not to.

* light and dreamy, emphasizes the warning nature of the vision
* heavy and ominous, emphasizes the wrong / bad / misguidedness aspects of the vision

I'm more thinking Alabama 3 (A3 in the USA) "Woke up this morning" ... ! ;)
 

Thats the problem with going against the genre. D&D is about charging in, killing monsters and get rewarded for it.

Just like the way Frodo charged in to Mordor and killed Sauron.

Or not.

D&D has never been just about that. Some D&D players have been just about that, but it is a waste of time running a carefully plotted adventure with them.
 

Derren

Hero
Just like the way Frodo charged in to Mordor and killed Sauron.

Or not.

D&D has never been just about that. Some D&D players have been just about that, but it is a waste of time running a carefully plotted adventure with them.

Frodo was never a D&D character. In fact in todays D&D its impossible to create Frodo because thanks to the class system everyone will eventually be a extremely good combatant which Frodo definitely was not. But after a few adventures which he certainly had he would be in D&D.

In D&D you get XP from killing things, nearly all the rules are about killing things, all classes are geared towards killing things and the DMG even tells you how many things you should kill each day (which is quite a lot) for the rules to work best.
Killing things is the core of D&D and you see it in the rules, the flavour text, the adventures, basically everywhere.
 

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