Do you allow Acrobatics and Athletics to be used interchangeably?

BookBarbarian · Oct 3, 2018

Blue said:
It's already been discussed that these are different actions with the same end result. I'd like to add that they could be very different. Climb is half speed, so it might take longer. Jumping is a lot more checks (considering your max high jump per check vs. one climb check per round if not less) so has a greater chance to fail even if the DCs are the same.

But yeah, if there's no time pressure and people are being careful, I might not call for a check either.

Good Point even in my quick example the DCs could be different between the two approaches.

Oofta · Oct 3, 2018

Mistwell said:
I am taking this out of context and repeating it because it's funny. Because THAT is on the top ten list of things RPGs don't simulate well, right?

Won't someone think of the fictional squirrels?

Hmm. Maybe my next PC should be Ah-nold Squirrel-enator.

Oofta · Oct 3, 2018

I sometimes allow athletics and acrobatics to achieve the same goal, even if they achieve them differently. An athletics check may mean you heave yourself over a barrier while an acrobatics has you doing a handspring over it.

But true gymnastics require a combination of dexterity, strength and constitution that just doesn't map well to D&D.

aco175 · Oct 3, 2018

I try to say yes and mostly let them. I mostly make the primary skill a DC that is 2-4 easier than the other. Say climbing a tree or ledge, would make Athletics a DC13 and Acrobatics a DC16. I find that it can be done, but easier if done the primary way. Same with Investigation and Perception, not to get into another discussion about them.

the Jester · Oct 3, 2018

Tallifer said:
Do you allow to a certain degree and in some cases Acrobatics and Athletics to be used interchangeably?

No. To use your example of climbing, Str (Athletics) is for climbing; Dex (Acrobatics) is for falling well.

pming · Oct 4, 2018

Hiya!

Yes. But then again, I pretty much let the Player decide what skill to use for some task based on what and how he RP's his character trying to overcome the challenge. So in the example of a tricky cliff climb, the burly dwarven fighter player might say "Ok, I'm going to use my dwarven knowledge of rocks and just sort of force my way up the cliff, brute force like (Athletics, Strength)", the nimble gnome thief could say "Ahh...cliff faces. Piece of cake! Just leap from here, to there, wiggle a bit over here, then bam! I'm up (Acrobatics, Dexterity)", and the wizard could say "Simplicity in itself. See the rock pattern? Those roots sticking out at the top over there? The faint discolouration of water on those outcroppings? Yes, yes...I can see my path perfectly now. (Athletics, Intelligence)".

That's pretty much it. Sometimes I do specify a specific skill, but almost always give a choice of two (or three) abilities the player can choose to use. So I may say "Ok, everyone make an Athletics check...Str or Con".

So, yes. Players can sub-out skills and stats quite easily in my games...as long as they can make a decent case as to why their character gets to use History (Int) to climb that cliff, I'm all for it. The PC's in my games have enough trouble staying alive...no point in trying to kill the hulking fighter in full armor with a failed Acrobatics (Dex) when I can let the trio of Minotaur's at the top do it in a much more entertaining way!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

EDIT: PS: I figured I better explain a bit more about "let the player decide what skill"...because normally the Player DOES NOT get to just state "I use Skill X to do Task Y" in my games. I will say something like "The stones around the archway have depictions of strange creatures battling an army of humanoids with wings. Strange runes, or characters, are also written around the very outside and inside". This is when a player will engage with "Do I recognize any of this? I grew up about 50km from here, and I am a 98 year old dwarf...". This is when I'll ask something like "I don't know...why would you?"...and the player then does some on-the-fly RP'ing with "Oh, well, my father was a stonemason for the noble families around here and I used to listen to stories from all the bards and tavern-goers with my dad after a three-day stone-carving marathon. That's why my Background is Sage...always taking mental notes and writing them down when I got the chance (see, I have a 100-pg Book in my Equipment list even...)". And THIS is when I'll ask for a History, or perhaps a Religion check. And the player MAY decide "Can I use my Arcana skill?". If it seems reasonable, sure. Go ahead. I was originally thinking 'religious stories carved in stone', but maybe they are also part of the God of Magic's allegories or something. I'm usually doing a lot of "filling in the blanks" of my adventure framework as play progresses. So more "Tower; Old grey stone; very old; unimportant" and less "here's four pages of backstory for this tower with specific people, places, things and times listed".

dave2008 · Oct 4, 2018

Mistwell said:
I am taking this out of context and repeating it because it's funny. Because THAT is on the top ten list of things RPGs don't simulate well, right?

Won't someone think of the fictional squirrels?

LOL, out of context that is quite hilarious - thank you for giving me a laugh!

doctorbadwolf · Oct 4, 2018

Phazonfish said:
As someone else said, squirrels have a climb speed, so their bonus to Athletics is irrelevant. In terms of which check to use when climbing, I would say that if you have a running start, you can use Acrobatics if that momentum could reasonably carry you that high, otherwise you're out of luck, gotta use Athletics.

Related to this, I allow acrobatics for anything that Id be unsurprised to see in a YouTube parkour/freerunning video.

I also allow athletics for most of it, though, because those str characters need to be thrown a bone.

Yaarel · Oct 4, 2018

doctorbadwolf said:
Related to this, I allow acrobatics for anything that Id be unsurprised to see in a YouTube parkour/freerunning video.

I also allow athletics for most of it, though, because those str characters need to be thrown a bone.

Freerunning is mostly jumping and climbing − by current D&D rules, straightforward Strength (Athletic) checks.

That said, a careful consideration of freerunning is what finally convinced me to terminate the discongruent acrobatics skill, and just use athletics for all physical stunts.

Athletic Strength necessarily includes agile ‘grace’. Just like wielding a sword includes the ability to aim the sword. Strength is global body coordination and speed versus small, slow, sensitive, fine motor skills.

StormbringerAUS · Oct 4, 2018

I would not interchange them - however for example someone climbing (if I decided a check was warranted)a wall it would be athletics (strength check) however if they want to try and climb it quickly then I would also require a dexterity check (acrobatics if they have it). This reflects the strength needed for the climb but the agility to change holds quickly etc - some might see this as tough but I prefer this than simple making the DC higher for the climbing check.