Trying to make 5e more oldish and want some people's opinions

fatdoomguy · Dec 10, 2018

Hey so recently my players wanted to shift from 2e to 5e and I don't like how different they are especially with being able to use all weapons and armour at 1st level choosing the right class or being completely healed from one nights rest. I know it's trying to make things a lot easier to use but I feel it takes away from the experience of the game such as finding a powerful magic weapon that your not proficient with and spending the time and effort to get proficient with it but that's just me.
I was thinking of adding/changing the following rules and want to know what everyone thinks and what other ideas could be used.
1. Short rest 8 hours of rest – Long rest 1 week of normal rest or 3 days with healer
- Must have someone with healing proficiency or healing pollutes or similar
2. Being proficient with martial weapons lets you choose 5 weapons from the martial weapon list to be proficient with and have +1 to attacks in all other weapons
-being proficient with simple weapons lets you choose 8 weapons from the simple weapon list to be proficient in and +1 to all others
3. At short rests you can use the abilities from rest of the weary
4. Critical hits and failures in combat cause a roll on a table for extra effects, a critical can instra kill anyone if the roll is right
5. Weapon speeds will effect initiative, I’ll be making a table
6. You don’t have to speak your races language if it doesn’t suit your backstory. It can be changed for any other language that makes sense for your backstory
7. Reading and writing will be an intelligence skill and can be chosen by any class or race instead of one being given
I will also be changing the magic system to be more like 2e with the spheres as to me it doesn't make sense that a cleric of life would be able to raise any undead.
I will probably also do something to wizards as being able to pick any spell and just know it without any training or even know of the spells existence seems OP and doesn't make sense to me.
Please tell me what you think of the rules above and if you can think of any more. Thnaks

Coroc · Dec 10, 2018

Leave out the absolute stupid and wrong 2e initiative rule and everything else you ruled is fine. Come at me with a dagger while I wield a halberd and you will see which weapon strikes with more velocity and who attacks who first simply because of reach.

Ovinomancer · Dec 10, 2018

fatdoomguy said:
Hey so recently my players wanted to shift from 2e to 5e and I don't like how different they are especially with being able to use all weapons and armour at 1st level choosing the right class or being completely healed from one nights rest. I know it's trying to make things a lot easier to use but I feel it takes away from the experience of the game such as finding a powerful magic weapon that your not proficient with and spending the time and effort to get proficient with it but that's just me.
I was thinking of adding/changing the following rules and want to know what everyone thinks and what other ideas could be used.
1. Short rest 8 hours of rest – Long rest 1 week of normal rest or 3 days with healer
- Must have someone with healing proficiency or healing pollutes or similar
2. Being proficient with martial weapons lets you choose 5 weapons from the martial weapon list to be proficient with and have +1 to attacks in all other weapons
-being proficient with simple weapons lets you choose 8 weapons from the simple weapon list to be proficient in and +1 to all others
3. At short rests you can use the abilities from rest of the weary
4. Critical hits and failures in combat cause a roll on a table for extra effects, a critical can instra kill anyone if the roll is right
5. Weapon speeds will effect initiative, I’ll be making a table
6. You don’t have to speak your races language if it doesn’t suit your backstory. It can be changed for any other language that makes sense for your backstory
7. Reading and writing will be an intelligence skill and can be chosen by any class or race instead of one being given
I will also be changing the magic system to be more like 2e with the spheres as to me it doesn't make sense that a cleric of life would be able to raise any undead.
I will probably also do something to wizards as being able to pick any spell and just know it without any training or even know of the spells existence seems OP and doesn't make sense to me.
Please tell me what you think of the rules above and if you can think of any more. Thnaks

I'd say you should re-read the rules and play a few games before making changes. You should understand a rule before changing it. Mostly because a few of your changes will have weird knock-on effects. Most are at the level of fluff changes and don't really matter. One or two show big misunderstandings of the rules.

Specifically --

1. This is already an optional rule in the DMG. It has large knock on effects.

2. Fluff. A fiddly change that doesn't really change anything.

3. Weird. Huh? What's rest of the weary?

4. Bad. Crit rules strongly disfavor the players, as the DM always has another bad guy while the players just die. Further, crit fumbles punish skill as the more dice you roll do to skill the better chance you suffer serious harm btecause of the RNG.

5. Knock-on weirdness. Initiative in 5e is cyclical, so this would only be round 1? After that the rotation is set. You could go to round by round initiative, but this is really unecessarily finicky with no real upside.

6. 7. Both fluff.

8. Spheres. Fluffy and finicky. Yes, a lawful good cleric shouldn't cast raise undead if his diety opposes undead. But why not let that be a game issue, with fun repercussions rather than a restriction out of the gate? 5e takes this design route often -- it doesn't restrict and keaves it to the game.

9. Wizard spells -- failure of understanding. Wizards don't automatically know any spell. They get 2 per level just like in 2e. Everything else they have to find the soell and take the time and money to learn it.

In short, I'd recommend you play without changes before making any. Lost Mines of Phandelver is a great intro adventure and very well written. Try it with the core rules and find out what works for you and doesn't rather than assuming.

lowkey13 · Dec 10, 2018

*Deleted by user*

lowkey13 · Dec 10, 2018

*Deleted by user*

delericho · Dec 10, 2018

Ovinomancer said:
In short, I'd recommend you play without changes before making any. Lost Mines of Phandelver is a great intro adventure and very well written. Try it with the core rules and find out what works for you and doesn't rather than assuming.

This.

pogre · Dec 10, 2018

Why do your players want to shift editions? Do your suggestions short-change the players' hoped for changes with the edition switch?

I do not know your players' minds - maybe, you should have a sit down to discuss possible changes and reach a consensus with your players.

Wiseblood · Dec 10, 2018

Why don’t you play 2e and steal the stuff you like from 5e?

Henry · Dec 10, 2018

pogre said:
Why do your players want to shift editions? Do your suggestions short-change the players' hoped for changes with the edition switch?

I do not know your players' minds - maybe, you should have a sit down to discuss possible changes and reach a consensus with your players.

I think this bears repeating -- if the players want to shift, there's obviously some things they like more, and it bears finding out what those things are specifically. [MENTION=6979231]fatdoomguy[/MENTION], unless you have discussed these changes with your players (you don't say in your post), I would run these by them and see what parts of 5e make them want to switch and find out if these rules torpedo any of those. Making sure your group is OK with the rules changes is important to avoid some pretty quick campaign burn out, speaking from experience.

But if 5e is the way you and your group want to go, I also second the notion of at least two or three sessions of the original rules, make sure that the existing rules really don't work for you and your table in practice, before adding the new ones. In particular, the long rest - short rest rule as mentioned has lots of trickle-down effects for every PC, from champion fighters to warlocks. Even the fighter's second winds and action surges are going to be very different, and (assuming this is desired) going to cause MUCH more cautious play with much more combat avoidance and gun-shy behavior. Sniper Rogues, on the other hand, will LOVE it.

I'm in a similar situation -- my PF group is about to try 5e, and I'm running them through a one-shot for a couple of sessions with straight rules as written to see what they like and don't like before starting an actual campaign of it. I'm taking their feedback into account for the actual Dragon Heist game I'll be running for them when next year starts.

jgsugden · Dec 10, 2018

Suggestion Uno: Give 5E at least 200 hours at the table before making any changes. This is to both understand the elements themselves, and to understand how they interact. That is about 6 months of 4 hour weekly games.

1.) It works, but you're likely sending your clerics/bards/druids/paladins into healer roles. They'll miss out on the breadth of their class spells while healing up he fighters.
4.) Those old tables were fun... until the imp gets the lucky role and stabs the brain of the 15th level monk. I ike critical tables, but remove the instant death. Have them exchange damage for game impacts like stun, restrain, push, hamper movement, etc...
5.) This can work, but you need to do a lot of work to balance everything in the game for weapon speed attacks.
7.) Skills are valuable. This is a high cost to become literate. How about saying that you can read/write in one language for each point of intelligence bonus you have?

The others are all fine.