what would you want to see in a revised Weapon Chart?

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Here's a request that may be orthogonal to much of what you are discussing, but need not be incompatible with it.

1. I want that no matter what martial weapon I choose for a character (say based off a picture or mini), it's not an "inferior" weapon of that type. (Like there's a weapon with the same properties but a better damage die, or the same damage and properties plus something else beneficial.) Don't limit characters to just a few best weapons of any particular type.

2. There is a way to have inferior weapon types. Say bronze age, primitive, poorly made, pig iron or whatever. So I can have them if I need them as DM. If this doubles as a way to have simple weapons using the same rules, that works for me.
 

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Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Finally, I would advise against making all weapons viable. Some weapons are crappy and should be mechanically represented as being crappy. Anybody fighting with a club, maul, or whip against a rapier-wielding opponent of equal skill, is at a disadvantage. That doesn't mean crap weapons shouldn't remain in the game; bandits and goblins gotta use something after all.

This statement is weird.
The Maul is arguably the best heavy weapon in the game.
Whips have a unique combination of damage type and abilities.
Clubs are worse, but they are the only weapon I will let pass on that, because clubs also represent improvised weapons that bash.


As for the thread topic:

Redundant or strictly inferior weapons bother me. You should know the list of those by now.

However, there are a few weapons that absolutely infuriate me:

Slings. Have the Ammunition Property, which means you can't use a shield with them thanks to the ruling on Hand Crossbows!
Trident. It's a Martial Weapon with the same stats as a Spear, but it's worse, because you can use Polearm Master with a Spear!
Net. Just gah. It's range is 5/15. That means you always attack with disadvantage when using it! Also, it's trivially easy to escape, just a DC10 str check, or cutting it for 5 points of damage. And to rub salt in the wound, you can only make one attack with it, period. Even if you want to follow up with a different weapon!
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I would go the other way.

Reduce the weapon chart to a 2x2 matrix of heavy/light-melee/ranged to produce 2-hand weapons, 1-hand weapons, projectile weapons, and thrown weapons. Give them base stats. Now push the modifiers to classes.

You have 4 weapons that can be anything.

That's really close to how 13th Age (a d20 game) does it. Here's a sample for the Fighter: http://www.13thagesrd.com/classes/fighter/#Gear

And compare it to the Rogue: https://www.13thagesrd.com/classes/rogue/#Gear

Rogues get more damage from small and light weapons then Fighters, but have penalties with heavy weapons.

The classes also do it for armor - some classes get better usage from different types of armor, or unarmored. Unarmored a rogue starts AC 11 instead of 10. But the fighter gets a lot more out of heavy armor then the rogue.
 

squibbles

Adventurer
This statement is weird.
The Maul is arguably the best heavy weapon in the game.
Whips have a unique combination of damage type and abilities.
Clubs are worse, but they are the only weapon I will let pass on that, because clubs also represent improvised weapons that bash.

Sorry, I was unclear there. I meant in IRL terms. I should not have used those examples, as it confuses the argument I wanted to make.

An IRL combatant would never want to be stuck with a club, maul, or whip when fighting someone with a sword or spear; they are inferior weapons.

You are correct that mauls and whips are mechanically solid choices in 5e. The designers didn't put much stock in weapon simulationism.
 


Nevvur

Explorer
That's really close to how 13th Age (a d20 game) does it. Here's a sample for the Fighter: http://www.13thagesrd.com/classes/fighter/#Gear

And compare it to the Rogue: https://www.13thagesrd.com/classes/rogue/#Gear

Rogues get more damage from small and light weapons then Fighters, but have penalties with heavy weapons.

The classes also do it for armor - some classes get better usage from different types of armor, or unarmored. Unarmored a rogue starts AC 11 instead of 10. But the fighter gets a lot more out of heavy armor then the rogue.

Yep! That's where I got the idea. It's perfectly compatible with 5e if you're willing to put the work into customizing classes, but even that seems like less a burden to me than inventing new weapon
tables.

One of the saddest character creations statements I've ever heard from a player: My concept was a greataxe wielding barbarian, but greatswords do .5 more DPR, so I'll go with that instead.

I gave him a greataxe that does 2d6 damage and we moved on.
 

Aiden_Keller_

First Post
This statement is weird.
Whips have a unique combination of damage type and abilities.

Net. Just gah. It's range is 5/15. That means you always attack with disadvantage when using it! Also, it's trivially easy to escape, just a DC10 str check, or cutting it for 5 points of damage. And to rub salt in the wound, you can only make one attack with it, period. Even if you want to follow up with a different weapon!

One of my players is currently a Blood Hunter that uses only a whip...while it does low damage initially...it makes for such a great weapon that it overcompensates for the 1d4....

Net just pisses me off...I allowed a player who wanted to try and increase the distance add small weights on the net to "increase" it to 15/25...

Not much but it still helped stop a fleeing enemy they wanted to question.
 

snickersnax

Explorer
My PH doesn't mention the spear in Polearm Master. Was this errata'd?

Yes, it was changed to include spear.

Players Handbook errata 2018: Polearm Master (p. 168).
A second sentence has been added to the first
benefit: “This attack uses the same ability
modifier as the primary attack.” Both instances of “or quarterstaff” have
been changed to “quarterstaff, or spear.”
 

Shiroiken

Legend
I have managed to "fix" most of the issues I have with the weapon table by making a few houserules. Those houserules generally add to weaker weapons, rather than weaken stronger weapons. For example, I created the Off-Hand property for several 1d4 light weapons that allow them to be used for TWF with any other weapon (making longsword and dagger viable). I added the Grapple trait to the Trident, allowing it to be used to for grappling and granting advantage to attack the grappled target (but can't attack anyone else until the grapple ends). I gave the Greataxe the Brutal (d12) property, which means it deals +1d12 on a critical hit (I KNOW it seems like a lot, but with the assumption of a die roll of 10 to hit, that appears to be the exact difference between the 1d12 and 2d6 weapons in damage over 20 attacks).

If I was going to do a full rewrite (which I would prefer), I think that a base mechanic table should be used. For example, have simple weapons deal 1d6 damage and martial weapons deal 1d8. Beneficial properties lower the damage, while restrictive ones raise it. Some weapons can (and should) be generally worse, mostly simple weapons used by primitives (club, greatclub, etc.), but most martial weapons should be fairly balanced because only martial trained characters would use them... and martial trained characters likely aren't going to use crap.

My major things:
1) Make Versatile a variable property. Some weapons might get an attack bonus, some a damage bonus, or some other benefit suitable for the weapon. For example, the spear could be a martial weapon, but only a simple weapon when used two handed. The longsword could grant +1 attack when used 2 handed, but the battleaxe deals +2 damage instead, giving each a different purpose.

2) Similar weapons could be combined into single weapons, but the description include the ohters. Right now the longsword represents the longsword, broadsword, and bastard sword. The scimitar has traditionally included the cutlass and sabre in prior editions. The halberd and glaive are identical mechanically, as would be a bunch of similar slashing polearms, so listing them as a single weapon would be good. Ditto for piercing polearms. By including these weapons in the descriptions, this allows players to have a variety of weapons without flooding the table mechanics with a million options (as Gygax did with polearms in 1E).

3) Fighting Styles should have been weapon based, not generic. They tried to correct this with feats in one of the UA, but it was iffy. In addition to not helping games that don't use feats, it almost becomes a feat tax to differentiate your weapon choice.

Two minor things:

1) The crossbow should not have a modifier to damage, since it's the mechanics that cause the damage. It should deal straight dice that are higher than other weapons to compensate. In addition, they should all be simple weapons; crossbowmen were easy to train, good bowmen were hard to come by.

2) The pike is ridiculous as a character weapon choice. It was never intended to be used alone, only with a line of other pikemen. It would have extra reach (15'), but be useless up close (5'). I wouldn't object to a longspear polearm to take its place mechanically, but the pike isn't a weapon that should be used in a skirmish, which is what D&D is based around.
 

Mercule

Adventurer
I would go the other way.

Reduce the weapon chart to a 2x2 matrix of heavy/light-melee/ranged to produce 2-hand weapons, 1-hand weapons, projectile weapons, and thrown weapons. Give them base stats. Now push the modifiers to classes.

You have 4 weapons that can be anything.
I wouldn't go quite that far, but I've definitely bought into the Savage Worlds idea of trappings. If there's no statistical difference, don't create another entry -- at the least, be OK with the fact that it's just a new name for the same stats. Most times, there's no need for statistical difference. Trying to force the issue is a low ROI.
 

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