what would you want to see in a revised Weapon Chart?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I'd look at the 4e weapon chart. It is simpler than 3.5, less bare-bones than 5e, and has fun properties like High Crit, and Brutal, that can translate directly into 5e with basically no changes, to differentiate weapons that currently have no mechanical point, without any meaningful increase in complexity or learning curve.

1d6 Brutal 1 is barely below 1d8 in average damage, while 1d6 Brutal 2 is, IIRC, the same average damage as 1d8? Sadly, the wotc forum threads where all this stuff was broken down and thoroughly analyzed are gone in the nonsensical forum purge, but I have faith in the math nerds here on enworld.

I wouldn't want to see crit ranges and multipliers come back, though. High Crit could either be maxed dice on a crit, or add an extra die, or something like that. A multiplier is just not going to play well with the rest of the 5e system.

More specific things I'd want to see are:

A focus on bringing bad weapons up, not bringing down weapons like Rapiers. Rapeirs don't need any boost, but they also don't need to be dropped at all in power, IMO. Rename them if you must to something like "Arming Sword" or whatever, but they're good as is.

A trait for small offhand weapons that lets them be used with one handed weapons regardless of whether the bigger weapon is Light.

Maybe a dagger that loses the thrown property, but gains that Off-Hand property?

Maybe give spears a Thrusting property that lets them be used as if they have Reach when attacking on your turn, but you don't threaten extra area? I'd be fine with dropping Rapiers one die step to give them the same property. If you've seen the really long historical rapiers, in a thrusting attack, it's pretty long reach.

Maybe a Defensive property for some weapons to make them valuable without changing their damage?

Maybe a Trait for weapons like Whip, Handaxe, and possibly a few others, that makes it easier to trip or disarm an opponent?

Shields with weapon traits. They add 1d4 damage when you use them to shove. Spiked shields deals 1d6 damage, and is a martial weapon.

Sidenote: Way more magic shields. 4e had really fun magic shields, and I miss them.

Add a two-handed 1d6 finesse reach weapon. Add a note that it is a monk weapon. Seriously, monks aren't going to even benefit that much from reach, so just let us have our polearm monks. Such a weapon can represent light spear/glaive type weapons made for lightwieght dueling usage, as well as fantasy classics like the spiked chain. I've added a 1d4, Finesse, Versatile (1d6), Piercing Spiked Chain, but I'm not sure if it being Versatile makes it too, well, versatile, for balance.

Give all thrown weapons the Range trait, instead. They are both melee and ranged weapons now, and thus are worthwhile in RAW games with feats.

Give Handaxes finesse.

That's all I can think of.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Sorry, I was unclear there. I meant in IRL terms. I should not have used those examples, as it confuses the argument I wanted to make.

An IRL combatant would never want to be stuck with a club, maul, or whip when fighting someone with a sword or spear; they are inferior weapons.

You are correct that mauls and whips are mechanically solid choices in 5e. The designers didn't put much stock in weapon simulationism.

IMO, they were right to make that call.

I don't care that one point is better than three for stabbing and tridents are unwieldy, they're a fantasy classic that is a solid weapon in fiction. that beats out any concern of realism, by an insurmountable margin, for me.
 

GlassJaw

Hero
Wow, awesome stuff so far! Lots of things I've already considered but a lot of new ideas too.

I should also add a couple more design goals:

  • Make the system as plug-and-play as possible, so keep the changes to the core rules as minimal as possible.
  • Stay as close as possible to the "spirit" of D&D.

I always try to keep in mind possible publication on DMs Guild so while interesting ideas, these deviate too far from my design goals:

Elfcrusher said:
No weapon table. Instead, a flowchart/rules for creating your own weapons. Call them whatever you want. You start with simple or martial, which determines die size. Then you add tags, each of which either raise or lower the damage die by one step.
jasper said:
You are proficient in all weapons. But damage changes with class not weapon.
ccs said:
Weapon speeds that modify initiative.
 

Roadkill101

Explorer
To eliminate mechanical superiority between weapons in my games (a heavily house ruled system), I took a cue from OD&D and B/X. Weapons do damage based on how they are used, one-handed and hurled weapons do 1d6+Str mod., while two-handed weapons and "launched" weapons do 1d8 (+Str mod. for melee, "launched" would need something like the 3x "mighty" property to add Str mod). Fighter type classes use the next higher die (d8/d10) for damage. Missiles still apply any Dex mod to attack but eliminated the "finesse" property in regard to damage. I further modify the damage die type by a creatures size (which nerfs a Hafling or other small sized races damage output [d4/d6], but I don't really care, being only a point different by mathematical average, which I make sure my players are aware of out the gate). This allows my players to arm their characters how they want without having to agonize over choosing Great Axe over Great sword (it also allows for any real world weapon to be included without any worries on how to assign damage).
 

One of the following:
  • Make STR the only stat that adds its modifier to damage. DEX still used to attack with ranged and finesse weapons.
  • Keep DEX to damage for ranged and finesse, but (a) give ranged weapons a minimum STR requirement, and (b) require a certain amount of STR before you can use a weapon as a finesse weapon. (So for example, the rapier could have a property of "finesse (STR 13).")

And then all of these:
  • Change dual-wielding so that you can make the off-hand attack as long as your off-hand weapon is light (instead of requiring both be light).
  • Allow Sneak Attacks with all light weapons, in addition to ranged and finesse.
  • A new "mechanical" property that prevents adding any stat modifier damage to certain types of weapons (i.e. crossbows). Increase damage dice of such weapons by a size to partially compensate.
 

guachi

Hero
I'd like one or more new weapon properties. Maybe some kind of status effect. Many cantrips inflict some kind of status effect, why not more weapons?

I'd also like if a DM in a campaign I played would take a few minutes and list the names of real world weapons in existing categories (or maybe a new weapon type or two). So I might see dao, arming sword, guisarme, or whatever listed somewhere.
 
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I have an idea for a weapon system that describes every weapon as a combination of three things: size, skill and damage type.

Size: tiny, small, medium, large, huge, etc. Determines hand use (single-weapon and two-weapon fighting).
Skill: simple or martial.
Damage Type: bludgeoning, piercing, slashing.

The actual dice of damage is determined by a combination of the first two class.

So, if you have a medium sized, simple, slashing weapon then it does 1d8 damage and a human (medium size) can hold it in one hand. Whether you call it a bearded axe or an arming sword or a khopesh is just fluff.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
My solution to the weapon table issue was to remove it. Not the issue, the weapon table.

The idea I floated was having the damage a character does with their weapon be equal to the character's Hit Die. So no matter what weapon a barbarian wields, it does 1d12 damage. No matter what weapon a sorcerer wields, it does 1d6 damage. Etc.

This allows more interesting character visuals (a knife-wielding fighter, for example) and makes them all viable. A barbarian or fighter just knows how to hurt something better than a wizard does, regardless of the tool they are using.

Caveat: my campaigns do not use multiclassing, but I don't see why it would cause an issue to use the highest Hit Die of your classes. Also, nobody in my campaigns ever took stuff like Polearm Master so I can't speak for issues those feats might cause.

But the idea was very popular in my groups and worked well for us.
 

Horwath

Legend
Base damage:

1d8,

damage die steps: 1d3-1d4-1d6-1d8-1d10-1d12-2d6-2d8


martial weapon, increase die by one step.
two handed, increase die by one step.
heavy increase die by one step.

reach, reduce damage die by one step.
light, reduce damage die by one step.
finesse, reduce damage die by one step.
thrown 30/120, reduce damage die by one step.

versastile, free for any non-light, non-finesse weapons,


some logical rules:

heavy must be two handed weapon,
finesse cannot be heavy,
light cannot be heavy, doh!
thrown cannot be two handed,


some examples;

simple weapons;
dagger, 1d4, light, finesse.
throwing knife, 1d3, light, finesse, thrown.
whip, 1d4, reach, finesse.
club, 1d6, light.
mace, 1d8, versatile(1d10).
javelin, 1d6, thrown.
spear, 1d6, reach, versatile(1d8).
longspear, two handed, reach, 1d10.

martial:

shortsword, 1d6, light, finesse.
arming sword, 1d8, light.
rapier, 1d8, finesse.
throwing axe, 1d6, light, thrown.
shuriken, 1d4, light, finesse, thrown.
throwing hammer, 1d8, thrown.
longsword, 1d10, versatile(1d12).
claymore, 2d6, twohanded.
greatsword, 2d8, twohanded, heavy.
poleaxe, 2d6, twohanded, heavy, reach.
warspear, 1d12, twohanded, reach.
bladed whip, 1d6, reach, finesse.


other:

shortbow, 1d6, twohanded.
longbow, 1d8, twohanded, heavy.

hand crossbow; 1d8, light, loading(Bonus action).
light crossbow; 2d6, twohanded, loading(Action).
heavy crossbow; 2d8, twohanded, heavy, loading(Action).
 

Xeviat

Hero
Base damage:

1d8,

damage die steps: 1d3-1d4-1d6-1d8-1d10-1d12-2d6-2d8


martial weapon, increase die by one step.
two handed, increase die by one step.
heavy increase die by one step.

reach, reduce damage die by one step.
light, reduce damage die by one step.
finesse, reduce damage die by one step.
thrown 30/120, reduce damage die by one step.

versastile, free for any non-light, non-finesse weapons,


some logical rules:

heavy must be two handed weapon,
finesse cannot be heavy,
light cannot be heavy, doh!
thrown cannot be two handed,


some examples;

simple weapons;
dagger, 1d4, light, finesse.
throwing knife, 1d3, light, finesse, thrown.
whip, 1d4, reach, finesse.
club, 1d6, light.
mace, 1d8, versatile(1d10).
javelin, 1d6, thrown.
spear, 1d6, reach, versatile(1d8).
longspear, two handed, reach, 1d10.

martial:

shortsword, 1d6, light, finesse.
arming sword, 1d8, light.
rapier, 1d8, finesse.
throwing axe, 1d6, light, thrown.
shuriken, 1d4, light, finesse, thrown.
throwing hammer, 1d8, thrown.
longsword, 1d10, versatile(1d12).
claymore, 2d6, twohanded.
greatsword, 2d8, twohanded, heavy.
poleaxe, 2d6, twohanded, heavy, reach.
warspear, 1d12, twohanded, reach.
bladed whip, 1d6, reach, finesse.


other:

shortbow, 1d6, twohanded.
longbow, 1d8, twohanded, heavy.

hand crossbow; 1d8, light, loading(Bonus action).
light crossbow; 2d6, twohanded, loading(Action).
heavy crossbow; 2d8, twohanded, heavy, loading(Action).

This is close to my 3E system, but I started at 1d6.
 

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