1st lvl Oracle(+1lvl Cleric if your GM is evil):2 CLWs and 1 CMW for everyone

A 1st lvl human Oracle with 20 Cha

It's a pathfinder soceity char so my stats are:
STR: 7|-4
DEX:14|5
CON:12|2
INT:10| 0
WIZ:10| 0
CHA:20|17

Favored Class Option: Add one spell known from the oracle spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the oracle can cast
Choose IwSA

IF your GM rules that not being able to prepare the spell blocks your spontaneous casting
get the feat Heighten(Metamagic)
Heighten IwSA to lvl5 as it only prevents it being replaced with a 4th lvl spell.

If He rules that you need prepared spells and not spontaneous
dip a lvl into cleric

Um... do you mean Imbue with Spell Ability? Because no first-level oracle OR first-level cleric can get that, especially not with that favored class option. It's a 4th level spell. Oracles don't get it before 8th level, Clerics before 7th. Oracles wouldn't be able to use that favored class option to get that spell until they hit 10th level.

Unless I completely misunderstand what you're asking. And, since this is a Society character, what your GM rules has less to do with it than the actual rules themselves.

Keldin said:

Um... do you mean Imbue with Spell Ability?

Click to expand...

Yes. Sorry I tough I spelled it out in full the first time I used it's name.

Keldin said:

Because no first-level oracle OR first-level cleric can get that, especially not with that favored class option. It's a 4th level spell.

Click to expand...

where does it say you don't get all you bonus spell slots at first lvl?

[/quote]Unless I completely misunderstand what you're asking. And, since this is a Society character, what your GM rules has less to do with it than the actual rules themselves.[/QUOTE]He oked my using Cure Critical wounds at first lvl so it would seem he agrees with me that you get your bonus spell slots at first lvl.

RAw i need prepared spelled slots to imbue and don't need to prepare IwSA to use it. So I Don't need the metamagic

DrAltaica said:

where does it say you don't get all you bonus spell slots at first lvl?

Click to expand...

Seriously? The basic definition of the Spells class feature. To quote:

"Like other spellcasters, an oracle can cast only a certain number of spells per day of each spell level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 2–5. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score (see Table 1–3 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook)." - Advanced Player's Guide 42

"Like other spellcasters, a cleric can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 3–5. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table 1–3)." - Core Rulebook 39

There are actually two things wrong with your assumption. The relevant table (Core 3-5, APG 2-5) specifies what specific spells and spell levels you get at what level. The second one: notice the repetition of the words "spells per day." Spells per day is NOT the same thing as Spells Known. It's just additional slots to cast from -- of the spells that you know. Oracles get a select number of spells per day, as do Clerics. You can't cast a bonus spell of a slot where you HAVE no spells.

Now, you CAN use a scroll of Imbue with Spell Ability (with all that requires, including making a caster level check). However, since you have no 4th level spells, it would be immediately dismissed. Also, Imbue with Spell Ability only works with prepared spells - it says that flat out. Even if you dipped a level of Cleric and your GM someone allowed you to take your bonus spells per day (which would probably result in any Society GM I know getting some cross words from their Venture Officers), it wouldn't apply. Your Wisdom is 10. That means that you don't get bonus spells at all for being a cleric, and can't cast anything greater than cantrips.

DrAltaica said:

He oked my using Cure Critical wounds at first lvl so it would seem he agrees with me that you get your bonus spell slots at first lvl.

Click to expand...

Yeah, no. Your GM is running this flat out wrong. I would strongly recommend he reread the rules and/or speak to his VO. Of course, the chance of that happening seems less than likely - I don't know where he is located, so I don't know who to refer him to.

Hm. Actually, I'll just toss is over to Jesse Davis. He'll probably know who to refer it to.

Keldin is absolutely correct, you only gain extra spells from spell levels you can actually cast due your character level. Just because you have a high enough ability score to gain access to bonus 2nd, 3rd, 4th level spells etc. it does not mean you get those bonus spells until you can actually cast spells of that level normally.

The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, and rangers; and Charisma for bards, paladins, and sorcerers. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.

Click to expand...

p16 CRB.

An oracle for example needs to have a class level of 4 before gaining access to any 2nd level spells, be they bonus or not. Hope this helps explain how things work.

Ultimately whatever your GM says, if you are playing in Pathfinder Society games you are bound by the rules as written, the GM cannot allow you to break them to do this and should not be asked to do so once it is clear that the rules do not allow it.

Richard Lowe
PFS Venture-Lieutenant (Online - Virtual Tabletops)

Keldin said:

Seriously? The basic definition of the Spells class feature. To quote:



There are actually two things wrong with your assumption. The relevant table (Core 3-5, APG 2-5) specifies what specific spells and spell levels you get at what level. The second one: notice the repetition of the words "spells per day." Spells per day is NOT the same thing as Spells Known.

Click to expand...

I'll let you do the leg work. where does it say the limit on the number of spells you can prepare? https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42het?Oracle-and-Imbue-with-Spell-ability#20

Your Wisdom is 10. That means that you don't get bonus spells at all for being a cleric, and can't cast anything greater than cantrips.

Click to expand...

My printing has first lvl clerics geting 1+1 spell slots with lvl1. anyways if he didn't get spell slots at level one he wouldn't get any 1lvl spell/spell slots of level one so how would he qualify for the bonus slot?

Yeah, no. Your GM is running this flat out wrong. I would strongly recommend he reread the rules and/or speak to his VO.

Click to expand...

he is the VO and the head state representative for PFS.

I was surprised that he didn't even question me on it when I gave him my char sheet and explained my character concept to him, he just said that I had to dip a lvl into cleric.

Stunt Monkey said:

Keldin is absolutely correct, you only gain extra spells from spell levels you can actually cast due your character level. Just because you have a high enough ability score to gain access to bonus 2nd, 3rd, 4th level spells etc. it does not mean you get those bonus spells until you can actually cast spells of that level normally.

Click to expand...

That is what the classes in Core imply but don't actual say. The just say you get at the level you get them and rely on you just knowing how it's intended to work. It's a common enough problem that it's in the core FAQ, do I get bonus spells before the indented lvl, but they just quote the core book "In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough
class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level." but the only detail in the class descs is "you get the bonus spells according to the table 1-3." and able to cast a spell means to prepare a when it talks about you maximum limit of prepared spells so it's only fare to assume they mean the same thing with the bonus spells. It's hard for me to beleive that worn't intentionaly misleading peopble into thing you get the spell slots at or the would have just said, "You get your bonus spell slots when to get your first standard spell slot of that lvl" That's how everyone else explains it. I know that every GM know that how it works but "univerally understood to be the case" is not same as RAw The rules make no mention of the fact that of what level you get your bonus spell slots only that it's linked to you class level and to see the class desc for forther details and the class desc just says that you get the listed bonus spells as a base class feature and base class feature you get at level one. therefor you get your bonus spells at level one and since you get the bonus spell slot at lvl1 you are capable of casting spells of that lvl at lvl1 so it's constant with the rule on page 16

An oracle for example needs to have a class level of 4 before gaining access to any 2nd level spells, be they bonus or not. Hope this helps explain how things work.

Click to expand...

I know that the rules as intended and universally known, but that is not RAw.

should not be asked to do so once it is clear that the rules do not allow it.

Click to expand...

I'm surprise no one questions the face that oracles break the intended limit on how many spells you can imbue. and instead insist that the RAw clearly state that you get the bonus spell slots when you get a normal spell slot of that that spell lvl.

I see you asked your question on the Paizo boards and that thread has a bit more info and responses from a number of PFS Venture Officers.

As an FYI for those responding here - so as to limit duplicated effort - this is that thread:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42hg9?Help-With-first-char#1

DrAltaica said:

I'll let you do the leg work.

Click to expand...

[Sarcasm]Gee, thanks. [/Sarcasm]

DrAltaica said:

where does it say the limit on the number of spells you can prepare?

Click to expand...

A prepared caster cannot prepare more spells than he can cast in a day. That's what scrolls (and other similar magic items) are for. To quote, again:

"Like other spellcasters, a cleric can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 3–5. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table 1–3)." - Core Rulebook 39

"Like other spellcasters, an oracle can cast only a certain number of spells per day of each spell level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 2–5. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score (see Table 1–3 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook)." - Advanced Player's Guide 42

DrAltaica said:

My printing has first lvl clerics geting 1+1 spell slots with lvl1. anyways if he didn't get spell slots at level one he wouldn't get any 1lvl spell/spell slots of level one so how would he qualify for the bonus slot?

Click to expand...

Ah, okay. I think I see the problem here. That particular nomenclature started with the Third Edition of Dungeons and Dragons and carried through to Pathfinder. You'll notice that the number after the '+' sign is always a 1, no matter the class or spell level, right? This refers to the Cleric's domain ability. The cleric normally gets two domains when they take that class (though this number can change depending on what options you select). You get the associated powers for each domain, but can only select one of the spells for that level at that domain. That's what the +1 is.

And I didn't say he didn't get any spell slots. I said he couldn't cast 1st level cleric spells because he had a Wisdom of 10. To cast first-level spells, a Wisdom-based caster has to have a Wisdom of at least 11 (12 for second-level spells, 13 for third, and so on and so forth).

DrAltaica said:

he is the VO and the head state representative for PFS.

Click to expand...

Um... I don't think there ARE state representatives. Regions, yes - the Jesse Davis I mentioned previously is the head of the "Online" region, which is why I directed it to him since I don't know where you are. Even the smallest states usually have at least three representatives.

DrAltaica said:

It's a common enough problem that it's in the core FAQ, do I get bonus spells before the indented lvl, but they just quote the core book "In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level." but the only detail in the class descs is "you get the bonus spells according to the table 1-3."

Click to expand...

Actually, Jeff Morse copied the exact part of the FAQ, which DOES include what you say... but it answers the question first. To copy the actual text at the FAQ (bolding mine):

Bonus Spells from a High Ability Score: Can I use these even if my spellcasting class level isn't high enough to give me access to those spell levels?

No. You only get the bonus spells if your class level grants you access to those spell levels. You can't even use them for lower-level spells.