(IR) The 1st IR, The 2nd IR (complete transcripts)

Edena_of_Neith here.
This thread is meant to be a repost, in totality, of the 1st IR and the 2nd IR.
This is it. All of it, from beginning to end.

I broke the 1st IR down into a number of folders, for the sake of manageable bookkeeping, and committed these folders to my permanent records. I still have all the folders in storage today, and I will copy them onto this thread. Thus, the totality of the 1st IR will be here for all who wish to see it.

The three folders titled Thread One of the 1st IR, Forrester's Intermediate Thread of the 1st IR, and Thread Two of the 1st IR, contain the main story therein. These three folders contain the core material of the 1st IR.
These three folders will be presented in the order given above, on pages 1 and 2 of this thread.

There are a number of folders with additional material related to the 1st IR. They are: Darwin's Panic Thread, Riot Gear's Open Letter to Edena Thread, Draco's Eric Come Here Thread, Balor's About the IR Thread, Bugaboo's Restarting Thread, Psionicist's What About Thread, Aloisius's What If Thread, Riot Gear's Warriors Thread, Psionicist's Don't Worry Thread, Broken Fang's Technology Thread, Draco's History of Toril Thread, Psionicist's Magicpunk Thread, Riot Gear's War of the Month of Terror Thread, Syklone's If the Gnomes Thread, Teflon's Chaff Thread, and Charwoman Gene's Attack Thread. This additional (and smaller) folders will be presented in the order given above.

(The SECOND IR begins on page 4.)

I will begin with the first folder, titled Thread One of the 1st IR.
Due to the limitations of the ENBoards, I have broken this folder down into 9 posts. Each post is marked by number.
So read, and enjoy.

Here is the 1st IR.

- - -

(1ST POST) THREAD ONE OF THE FIRST IR


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-03-2001 11:13 PM

This is meant semi-humorously.

Your world awakens to a new reality.
Gnomes have invented steam power.
They have invented the Consumer Society.

Suddenly, smokestacks start going up in the gnomish country.
Industry appears. The land is a din of pounding hammers and thunderous booms as machines and factories
spring up.
The first railroad is built, and the horseless carriage carries trainloads of gnomes to and from the great
mines where black coal is scooped up in vast quantities to fuel the growing revolution.

Now, the gnomes start building railroads into neighboring countries, bribing the governments, cutting deals,
making treaties.
The gnomes want to dig new mines.
The gnomes want to build factories in your city.
The gnomes want vast number of changes and upgrades to your local area.

Let's say this occurs in Toril.
The gnomes have converted Amn and Tethyr. They are working on Waterdeep and the Lord's Alliance. They
have emissaries to Luruar.
They are cutting deals with the Red Wizards, with the cities of the Moonsea, with Westgate.
Mulhorand and Chessenta are taking a look. Negotiations have begun in Thesk and Aglarond.

What would your characters - let us assume they are extremely high level, 25th or so - do?

2

Diarnothe
Member
posted 04-03-2001 11:19 PM

Never mind what a PC would do. Every @(&!*@@ druid in the realms is going to come down on this like call
lightning on an iron golem.... (and maybe just as effectual too)

3

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-03-2001 11:33 PM

Well, of course, the gnomes immediately put out the call that extremists are attacking, endangering lives
and wrecking public property.
The gnomes put out the call to all good adventurers to put a stop to these marauding druids.
Meanwhile, the smokestacks keep going up. The air becomes polluted and difficult to breath in the cities of
Amn and Tethyr.
The gnomes shoot and destroy all the monsters found in their territory, wiping out entire species. The iron
horse (railroad) makes this easy to do.
This is done for the good of society, claim the gnomes.

4

Amrynn_Moonshadow
Member
posted 04-03-2001 11:49 PM

i guess i'd spelljam myself and my loved ones off of toril . . . providing i could get hooked up with the
starwing fleet defenders of evermeet . . . or something like that. i don't know . . . kiss my elven butt
goodbye?

------------------
-------------------
"Never anger an elf, we have very long memories."
~Amrynn Moonshadow

5

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-03-2001 11:54 PM

You do realize, don't you, that the Elven Imperial Navy refuses to involve itself with the affairs of surface
elves on Toril?
Except, obviously, for Evermeet.
Yet even there, they did not come to Evermeet's aid when Kymil Nemesin attacked them.

Therefore, you cannot abandon Toril in this manner.
The gnomes invite all elves to join them in their new progressive revolution.
They propose a vast industrial complex in Leuthilspar to produce metal items. One of Leuthilspar's great
parks can be sacrificed for this purpose, so no elven homes will have to be, say the gnomes.
The gnomes propose clearing a way through the elven forests for an Evermeet railroad, the timber to be
used to build elven ships. New and improved ships of the gnome's design.
The gnomes advocate the cannon as an effective harbor defense for Leuthilspar.
They feel ironworks should be set up, so that Leuthilspar can produce it's own arsenal of firearms, cannon,
and great Ironbacks (armored ships.)

Some of the nations of Toril are receptive to the proposals of the gnomes. Others are mulling it over.
Yet others are uninterested.

Your characters could make the difference. What do you do?

6

bondetamp
Member
posted 04-04-2001 12:07 AM

I would start a labour union.

------------------
-bondetamp

-but you may call me sir.

7

GuardianLurker
Member
posted 04-04-2001 12:24 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:

Your characters could make the difference. What do you do?


Well, that depends.

If I'm playing the 25th level Archmage Gadgeteer, I cash in.

If I'm playing the curmudgeon ex-adventuring Fighter, "What was good enough for Granpappy is good
enough for me.", I complain a lot.

If I'm the tree-hugging druid, I get together with a bunch of my brethern and demonstrate exactly how
damaging the reality behind the words "hurricane", "tornado", "earthquake", "flood", etc. can be to a
primitive industrial society.

If I'm the inquisitive Bard, I investigate to find out what caused this sudden change in the Gnome's Behavior
- surely some form of unearthly demonic magic must be behind it.

If I'm the wise Cleric, I gather together a group of young adventurers and send them on a quest to discover
why the Gnomish Gods are permitting this, while I try to establish treaties and agreements that will halt the
gnomish advance. (And thanks to magic, a binding agreement takes on a whole new meaning.)

The Barbarian (and hir horde) sack a few gnomish industrial towns, then blow the gold in the world's biggest
party.

If I'm the reclusive sorceror, I enhance my aeries' defenses, and blow up anything that even comes near
me.

If I'm the sneaky Rouge swindler, I swindle the gnomes looking for trading partners, the non-gnomes
looking to cash in, and anyone else (because you can't leave a mark unfleeced). And I spend even more
time running away.

The Paladin starts training for the apocalyptic battle he is sure is coming.

And the Monk retires to the monastery to contemplate the changes life brings.

And if I'm a member of that adventuring party, I have a wild and wonderous journey through all the planes
of existence to find out the answer.

------------------

GuardianLurker

Be seeing you.

8

Volaran the Blue
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:01 AM

FInd one of these oh so spiffy portals Toril is riddled with and get off the planet. The industrial revolution
has happened elsewhere with little effect on the planes...even Mechanus is relatively clean in its industry.

------------------
"Those who call adventurers the most foolish souls alive have never encountered a planewalker."
-Volaran the Blue, Archmage of the Singing Caverns

[This message has been edited by Volaran the Blue (edited 04-04-2001).]

9

Masked
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:11 AM

I for one would realize the gnomes must be stopped. There is only one thing that can come of this ...

Final Fantasy 7+

The gnomes must be stopped no matter what the cost.

-Maskedimus Prime

ColonelHardisson
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:41 AM

Tangentially...

How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the "technological" race of D&D? I mean, I
know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded out into the universe via
Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes?

Dwarves have always seemed more technologically inclined in D&D, what with Dwarven-designed forges and
great stonework and cleverly designed doors and traps seeming to appear in a lot of adventures. The
Greyhawk 2000 article in Dragon recently also posits that the Dwarves would be the leaders in technological
know-how.

I just don't get where the gnomes became the default tech race. And Tinker Gnomes are an abomination.
Sorry; it needed saying. The only two races more annoying are kender and gully dwarves.

Re: the question. The PCs wouldn't do much, except for any druids or maybe rangers and other
wilderness-oriented characters - and even these would probably do more "monitoring" than anything else. If
things were getting polluted, the druids would likely meet with the gnomes, discuss the problem, and try to
come up with mundane and magical ways to eliminate the transmission of pollution. I imagine some might
be radical, and resort to violent means, but eventually they'd be brushed aside - there really aren't that
many druids running around in the first place.

I'd like to know why this is on your mind. Is it a campaign idea that you're about to implement, or have
already implemented?

By the way, I think the dwarves would eventually simply shove the gnomes aside and become the real
technological force i the world. It suits them more.

------------------
?Illegitimis non carborundum.?
-Gen. Joseph Stilwell

11

LostSoul
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:46 AM


quote:

Originally posted by bondetamp:
I would start a labour union.



Ya beat me to it.

I would go around supporting the rights of the workers, promoting freedom and equality and other utopian
causes, all the while changing the social structure to benefit ME.

Then I would take my legions of conscripted soldiers with mass-produced weapons and conquer the WORLD!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

12

PrivateerMatt
Member
posted 04-04-2001 03:31 AM


Colonel H,

You beat me to it! I have always wondered about that too. OK, the DL books were good, and *at the time* I
really liked the spin they put on gnomes. But here's my dirty little secret -- I don't like how that notion has
invaded the rest of fantasy gaming. It's not just D&D, either. I'm sure a lot of you here have played
EverQuest, where this gnome tinkerer bit is taken to an extreme. I'm sure there are other examples out
there too.

Anyway, glad I found a kindred spirit on that topic.

Hey, why didn't the kender take off like gnomes did? IMHO they are a much more interesting race. But
that's another thread.

(By the way, there are no gnomes in the Iron Kingdoms. Not that you can't play 'em... but they aren't part of
the material we are producing. Nothing personal, we just wanted to do things differently.)

- Matt

------------------
Matt Staroscik * Privateer Press * http://privateerpress.com/

13

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-04-2001 04:51 AM

Colonel Hardisson, just a humorous thing.

Well now, it is obvious what happens next.

Elminster, the Chosen, and the Harpers try to stop the gnomes covertly.
The gnomes take their losses, then blow up Shadowdale.
World War is then declared, with Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan, Thay, Zhentil Keep, Mulmaster, Thesk,
Mulhorand, and Chessenta on one side, and Waterdeep, the Lord's Alliance, Westgate, Luruar and it's 8
cities, Rashemen, Aglarond, Cormyr, and the Harpers and Chosen on the other side.
Sembia is neutral, trading off of everyone, making huge money in the war business.

This war wakes up and annoys the phaerimm, who had been sleeping under Anarouch. (There is a saying
with hornets: If you can see them, you're too close ... )
The phaerimm burst through the ancient and collasping sharn wall, and go to war against everyone.
The elves and dwarves, not yet caught in the holocaust going on, decide now is the time to regain their
supremacy over the continent of Toril, which they held for millennia.
They declare war on everyone, and the halflings join them.

The Sharn had been sleeping deep under the earth. The phaerimm were their ancient enemies.
Now the sharn come up to the surface and go to war against the phaerimm.

In the Hordelands, the fierce peoples there look west at the mess, and also at the riches for plunder.
They muster all their armies, and march west, and a new Tuigan invasion is begun.

Up in space, the Neogi look down, and the Mind Flayers, and the Goblins, and they see plunder, and their
fleets attack in force.
Only to be met by the Elven Imperial Navy, which battles them in spectacular combats across the Torilian
skies.

Finally, the tumult wakes up the Tarrasque.

(No more news comes from the world of Toril after this point)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-04-2001).]

14

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-04-2001 05:05 AM


quote:

Originally posted by ColonelHardisson:
Tangentially...

How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the "technological" race of
D&D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded
out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes?

Dwarves have always seemed more technologically inclined in D&D, what with
Dwarven-designed forges and great stonework and cleverly designed doors and traps
seeming to appear in a lot of adventures. The Greyhawk 2000 article in Dragon recently also
posits that the Dwarves would be the leaders in technological know-how.
......
By the way, I think the dwarves would eventually simply shove the gnomes aside and
become the real technological force i the world. It suits them more.


OPINION:

-Dwarves: being much more conservative, would not rush madly into such a radical change in the ways of the
world.
-Gnomes: are more 'experimental'.

-Dwarves: are more in tune with, and reverent of the earth (lower case), they love to mine, but would not
strip mine, rape the land, or change its face frivolously.
-Gnomes: ...not so much.

-Dwarves: don't want to interact with all the other races willy-nilly, so why have extensive railroads?
-Gnomes: what changed over there in the last week?

...and so on.

(One possible answer to your query?)

Blood Jester

------------------
Laugh 'til you die.

15

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-04-2001 05:22 AM

Now, what would my PC do?

My Favorite, a Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric Wood Elf Specialty Priest of Solonor Thelandira? (2nd Ed.)

Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage...

This abomination against the lands MUST be stopped, the creatures of the lands MUST be protected. After
one shot at reasoning (at most) force is not only acceptable, it is called for. And if excessive, rapid violence
has been done to the land and the animals, SCR*W the reasoning, war has already been declared by the
other side!

My current character, a Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships Azuth:

1)Examine if magic is being used, if so learn about it.
2)Calculate the degree to which the natural balance of the world, and of the Weave is being affected.
3)Use various means to scry on the future, and the end results of this behavior.
4)Attempt to use any legal means to dissuade or stop the gnomes.
5)For the betterment of the world, the stability of the realms, and the preservation of the (much preferable)
status quo, not to mention the ascendancy of magic...utilize whatever means available to eradicate the
gnomish inventions, and lock away (if magical) or destroy (if non-magical) all knowledge of their
'technology'.

Blood Jester

Ashtal
Member
posted 04-04-2001 05:53 AM

I'd say you'd have something akin to Castle Falkenstein, but that's just me.


Ashtal - who has no gnomes in her campaign but has Dwarves with gunpowder in a rennaisance culture who
brought both steel and a new sense of humanitarianism to the human people in my campaign.

17

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-04-2001 06:23 AM


Blood Jester Wrote:

Now, what would my PC do?

My Favorite, a Neutral Good Ranger/Cleric Wood Elf Specialty Priest of Solonor Thelandira? (2nd Ed.)

Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage...

This abomination against the lands MUST be stopped, the creatures of the lands MUST be protected. After
one shot at reasoning (at most) force is not only acceptable, it is called for. And if excessive, rapid violence
has been done to the land and the animals, SCR*W the reasoning, war has already been declared by the
other side!


: )

The gnomes declare this character a vile outlaw! They are sending their best people after this extremist elf!
Perhaps, say the gnomes, the elves should be excluded from ALL civilized lands, since they are barbarians
who could not understand Progress if it struck them in the face!


Blood Jester wrote:

My current character, a Lawful Neutral Wizard who worships Azuth:

1)Examine if magic is being used, if so learn about it.

The Answer:
They are using magic, you would learn, although they do not realize it.

2)Calculate the degree to which the natural balance of the world, and of the Weave is being affected.

The Answer:
The natural balance of both Toril and the Weave are being altered.
Being altered in ways that nobody can predict, although numerous Sages have tried to determine the
outcome.
The gnomes poo-poo the whole thing (that is, research to see if this is dangerous) as backwards thinking.
Onward, upward! That is their motto.

3)Use various means to scry on the future, and the end results of this behavior.

The Answer:
There are many possible endings.
Most of them bewildering beyond comprehension.
Some of them show the world ending in flame.
Some of them show the world filled with buildings that pierce the clouds.
Most of them show gnomish inventions flying through the air, racing across the ground, strange lines hung
in the air, the ground covered in strange grey stuff.
Some of them show this great city, with all sorts of races walking by - mind flayers, orcs, kobolds, humans,
elves, dwarves, halflings, even neogi with their umber hulk servants!, and they are paying no attention to
each other, but hurrying down the grey ground amidst a jumble of gnomish machines, strange lights,
towering buildings, and a tumult of noise.
Where they are going, or what they are doing, cannot even be guessed.

4)Attempt to use any legal means to dissuade or stop the gnomes.

The Answer:
The gnomes refer you to their Complaints Department.
Case 55.
Section B, Article 235.
You must go before an Arbitrator, and state your case.
If the Arbitrator allows, this can be taken to Court.
If you win your case in Court, the gnomes will consider your case before the Tethyr Circuit Court.
If that Court is favorable, your case will be considered by the Tethyr supreme court.
If the Tethyr supreme court agrees your case is reasonable, the High Court will take it up.
If the High Court agrees your case is reasonable, the Gnomish Bureucracy will take up your issue, and - the
gnomes proclaim - you will receive a reasonable judgment.
The whole process shouldn't take more than 10 years.

5)For the betterment of the world, the stability of the realms, and the preservation of the (much preferable)
status quo, not to mention the ascendancy of magic...utilize whatever means available to eradicate the
gnomish inventions, and lock away (if magical) or destroy (if non-magical) all knowledge of their
'technology'.

The Answer
All foretellings show the status quo will be destroyed if the gnomes continue, or if any nation on the planet,
period, decides to take up the gnomish path.
And another nation is likely to take up the gnomish path, and soon, if the gnomes continue to do as they
are doing.
Some things get institutionalized, you see.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-04-2001).]

18

mastermind
Member
posted 04-04-2001 06:43 AM

I would start a factory that produces Pokemon stuff.

I'll become a millionaire!!

------------------
mastermind

The Keeper of the
Dungeon Dimension

19

Tsyr
Member
posted 04-04-2001 06:58 AM

What would I do?

I'd simply kill all the gnomes.

Not like anyone actualy likes gnomes anyhow...

*grins evily*

Besides... railroads? Common... depending on the sub-race of gnomes, I might be doing the world a big
favor killing them... with a network of railroads across the planet, it could be doomsday...

20

soldarin
Member
posted 04-04-2001 07:04 AM

Wait anxiously for the first automobile, then buy one?

eatenmyeyes
Member
posted 04-04-2001 07:53 AM

Wouldn't the rise of technology weaken magic? It was my understanding that the amount of each are
inversely proportional to each other and that magic varied depending on the level of tech. Thus, wizards who
knew this would try to stop them.

22

drothgery
Member
posted 04-04-2001 08:15 AM

My PC, presumably a high-level wizard on any world other than Toril (and so a mid-level wizard on Toril),
would research the a magical item that, when placed on top of smokestacks, magically filters out the
pollutants.

He'd then make a fortune selling them to gnomes.

------------------
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976

[This message has been edited by drothgery (edited 04-04-2001).]

23

Gez
Member
posted 04-04-2001 08:16 AM

It seems people just don't realize that concerns like "ecology" and "pollution" were just unknown when the
actual Industrial Revolution happened IRL. If you go back in time in the 19th century and say to people
"steam engine are dangerous! you will pollute the air, you will all be sick, and the atmosphere will be
warmed, and we will all be flooded!" people will think you're some sort of idiotic mystic doomsayer and will
discard you and your arguments. Hell, nowadays, even someone as responsible and reasonnable as the
leader of the One Hyperpower of the world estimate pollution isn't dangerous.
Except for druids or rangers that could be upseted by a railroad coming through her beloved forest, reaction
would be either "wow, that's cool" or "why making brutish and bristle machine when magic can achieve the
same effect more rapidly, comfortably and efficiently ?".

Now, given I *do* know in character, not in metagame thinking, that industry is dangerous, what would I do
?
Clean. Gnomes have an innate knwack for magic, and it should be fairly easy for them to learn spells like
"Purify Air".
You see, with magic items, it is really easy to avoid pollution. Some circlet of Transmute Smock to Air could
be put on top of chimney, for example.
You could gather toxins and industrial waste in a place, and when you have enough, ship them to a center
where a Sphere of Disruption will destroy it forever.
Even nuclear wastes are of no danger when you can simply banish them forever in the Nowhere.

About specy extinctions: a D&D world has an incredible bio-diversity, and I think some species could be
extincted for the good of all. Notably, several Aberrations, Drow elves, Tinker gnomes, Gully dwarves, and
Kender halflings.

Tsyr: What have you against railroads ? In my books, automobile are more doomsday-triggerers than
trains. Cars pollute more, takes more places, provoke more accidents, and are one possible cause for
obesity (I won't expand this here).

Oh, and there is the argument that technology and magic are antagonist. Why should it be this way ? The
only reason I've found is that people don't like mixing magic and science and so declare that you can't have
both, but it's arbitrary.

Finally, I would emphasize some points. Except for the savage Spriggans, gnomes are NG. I doubt they
would associate with the Moonsea cities. I doubt any non-human race will associate with Hillsfar.

As I see things, Gnomes will create industrial device with magical cleaner to prevent pollution (because
Gnomes are GOOD and don't want to cause grave troubles) and everyone will be happy of being able to use
those so safe trains and planes to travel, rather than be exposed to the harshness of the element, the
brutality of the maraudings bandits, the length of the journey...

But the gnomes you describe, Edena, seems to have a LE WoD-technocatric behavior, and associate with all
Evil countries and organizations against all goods. Strange.

[This message has been edited by Gez (edited 04-04-2001).]

24

Tyrion
Member
posted 04-04-2001 08:58 AM

I have trouble seeing how this sort of Industrial Revolution could ever take place in a fantasy realm...the
gnomes would be smacked down soon after they tried to expand. The smart ones of their race wouldn't
even bother. Here's why:

1) What's the point of railways? Instead of the immense cost and time of setting up a railroad network over
the countryside, just have some high-level mages create permanent teleportation circles where you need
them.

2) The gnomes want to develop more mines. Where do they find these mines that have not been already
exploited by another faction?

I think, however, that a consumer society and mass-production could possibly occur, although they would be
radically different than our modern view of these concepts. Magic does everything the society needs, and in
most cases better than technology.

------------------
Tyrion

25

bondetamp
Member
posted 04-04-2001 09:55 AM

The thing is that even if an industrial revolution on Torill would damage the environment, no one but a very
few extremists would notice until it was far too late to stop it.

------------------
-bondetamp

-but you may call me sir.


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?

26

ColonelHardisson
Member
posted 04-04-2001 10:13 AM

Again, tangentially...

In my campaign world, Dwarves are the guys into heavy machinery. They'd be the ones to build railways
because they already use them in the mines for their ore carts, and a railroad across the land would give
them quick and easy access to consumers who would buy their consumer goods.

Halflings IMC are not the race of thieves or pseudo-kender of modern D&D; they're more like a cross
between Tolkien's Hobbits and D&D halflings, with a large dollop of honesty and practicality thrown in. More
like Merry and Pippin in "The Scouring of the Shire" than Bilbo at the beginning of "An Unexpected Party."
They still like creature comforts, and have invented a lot of labor-saving items. They even have
lawnmowers, toilets, and street lights.

------------------
?Illegitimis non carborundum.?
-Gen. Joseph Stilwell

27

CarpeDM
Member
posted 04-04-2001 10:45 AM


quote:

Originally posted by ColonelHardisson:
Tangentially...

How did it come to pass that the Gnomes are now considered the "technological" race of
D&D? I mean, I know that it started in Dragonlance with Tinker Gnomes, and they expanded
out into the universe via Spelljammer. What I'm wondering is: why the Gnomes?


Well, the only real hook that 1st edition gnomes had was that they were into practical jokes and were decent
illusionists. This didn't fit in with Weis and Hickman's view of Krynn (humans and elves did all the magic,
Kender were the pranksters), so they looked for another idea. Mad scientist inventors was what they came
up with, and for whatever reason that's what we're stuck with.

Of course, Dwarves in the DragonLance modules were no slouches in the engineering business (the big
difference being that Dwarf machines actually worked). The Dwarf kingdom in one of the early modules
(Thorbardin? Don't have my books handy) includes some pretty out-there technology. But Dwarves also
have the "doomed society of warriors" hook, so their technological accomplishments were eventually
downplayed. The DragonLance portrayal of Kender and Tinker Gnomes was so popular that 3rd edition made
it canon.

In my campaign, Gnomes have always been kind of a cross between Dwarves and Elves - they have an
Elf-like appreciation for nature, combined with the Dwarf work ethic. They're not very technological at all; the
Dwarves are the clear leaders in that respect, and they're not interested in exporting their discoveries. The
Dwarves have the technology to start industrial revolution-style change (or at least are close to it), but their
focus on individual craftsmanship means they're not interested in mass production techniques. And since
they're not likely to export their secrets, other cultures aren't even aware that the technology exists.

My gnomes, OTOH, are very much in tune with nature and magic (to them, they're the same thing). Absent
some other influence, they tend to form semi-nomadic cultures. In the more civilized areas of my world,
they tend to live in symbiosis with Dwarf or Elf cultures (sometimes both) rather than separate nations.

28

Estlor
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:01 PM

Well on Mystara gnomes always were big into technology. However, for the most part that was always geared
towards better smithing techniques, better preservation of shiny things.

THEN one of them discovered a Blackmoor anti-gravity drive pod.

As you can imagine, holy hell broke loose for the better part of a thousand plus years until the gnomes built
that bad boy into a flying city complete with biplane defense fighters.

But I digress.

Assuming I was in Toril playing the elven bard Estlor, I would use my influence to get as many elves behind
me and decree the technomancy of the gnomes to be a profoundly wicked belief. Using the considerable
magic reserves of the elves, I'd fortify the forest against the intrusion of non-elves and technomancers such
that when the rest of the world has forgotten magic and embraced industry there will still be a corner of the
world that holds on to the old ways.

And lord help them when they have lost all their magic and the elves decide it's time to stop hiding

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

29

Wayne Ligon
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:57 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Gez:
either "wow, that's cool" or "why making brutish and bristle machine when magic can achieve
the same effect more rapidly, comfortably and efficiently ?".


Because to use that machine requires, at most, a week or so of training - if that - whereas magic takes
months or years to learn. And depending on the world you're running, maybe all people cannot USE magic,
period.

God created Man, but Sam Colt made 'em equal.

30

Victim
Member
posted 04-04-2001 01:59 PM

One of my characters takes a rather keen interest in new technology. He'd be forwarned.

Initial trials would be watched. Assuming the gnome designs don't destroy themselves, sabotage would be
employed. The design notes would be subtlely altered to make designs that would work into death traps,
leading the gnomes to cease studying valid solutions.

Meanwhile, my character would then publicly declare support for the inventions while they were at an early
stage. Not only would this possibly discredit the inventions as unrealistic expectations develop and people
are let down, but this would alert other people who might not grasp the implications. Like the Harpers. Even
though I wouldn't want the Harpers to be my allies in game of Diplomacy and don't trust them to fight or
plot their way out of paper sack, they could still be rather annoying.

Then we find some Zhent bastards, kill or capture them and take their stuff, especially any prominent
symbols and such. Now we disguises.

Now the Zhentarim (see above) begin raiding temples of Gond (I assume that the Wonderbringer's temples
would be focal points for the industry). Liberal use of disentategrate destroys prototypes and technical
knowledge. Things that were built would be teleported to the vicinity of Zhent strongholds. Of course,
appropriate precautions against divination magic would be taken.

My character would get some mages to learn how to conjure rust monsters and help design spells that used
acids or sonics to wreck machines. However, he still claims support the gnomes and advocates harsh
retalitory measures against Zhentarim.

Just to spice things up, a reverse engineered and refined steam powered warmachine would be teleported
from the Citadel of the Raven (getting in would be tough but not impossible) to the headquarters of this
attempt to destroy the realms, probably Lantan.

Now everyone can play in the techie vs. Zhent war.

Under constant assualt from the druids, harpers, probably a some other power groups and now the powerful
mages of the Zhentarim, the Industrial coalition should be overwhelmed. In the process, however, both the
Zhents and Harpers would be extremly weakened. Hopefully, the Zhents would gone down in flames.

Of course, so far no one has taken divine intervention into account. Other gods might get upset at situation
that would send Gond's power beyond all the other gods put together.

31

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-04-2001 10:08 PM


I have looked at the Posts on this Thread.
I have evaluated their quality.
And I have come to the inevitable conclusion that:

The Gnomish Industrial Revolution is stopped!
Victory for the elves, druids, and the mages in the shadows!

32

(2nd Post) Thread One of the 1st IR

Lannon
Member
posted 04-04-2001 10:58 PM

Oh please the war isnt over yet. I dont think covert operations is going to simply shut down a massive
operation like an industrial revolution. How about all these other countries that figure out how wonderful it is
to suddenly be outproducing, outfarming, and generally outperforming all the other countries that are still
relying on their few mages for power and the backs of their peasants. Heck lets say that they start mass
producing... dong dong dong guns! And then they start shooting mages, fighters and other pesky
adventurers. And when they go to battle with other nations they bring those same guns along... It would be
a real mess if a well equipped group of men with guns faced a well equipped group of men with swords...

All those bloody, dying men, would be wishing their country was taking part in this marvelous industrial
revolution that puts explosives akin to magic into the hands of the common footsoldier. And one elf! Some
little elf that is breaking in and burning papers and has no idea what is going on. Well why not set up some
interesting problems for him too. Why not hire our own mages, we can sell them their own guns, then the
mage can fire off his spells and pump a quarter inch ball into the gut of the closest fighter. Come to think of
it, that mage might just appreciate that nifty little gun. Furthermore, if we can just harness the damage
capacity of these nifty little bullets, maybe we can get some casings on them...

If you have the industrial revolution kiss your non industrial revolutioned butt good bye. Magic really isnt
going to save you, not when the vast majority of people dont have it, and not when the production capacity
of these gnomes will vastly outperform that of even a thousand mages. I can just see it, the gnomes,
pumping up their machines to produce instruments of destruction that any person can use. Any peasant now
has the capability of a low level fighter. And all those poor mages trying desperately and expensively to
create wands and staves. But those mages know its already doomed because they and their comrades will
be the only ones that can use them. "We cant just train the commoners to wield magical staves and wands
me-lord. Its these damn guns! All the explosion of magic and any fool from the fields can shoot down one
of my best troops! And that is after a single day of training!".

The problems just go on and on and on. No one has considered retaliation from the states that have
embraced the revolution. These are just some ideas...

33

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-04-2001 11:23 PM

Out-perform mages? Lessee...any number of mage spells can stop bullets, kill you instantly, destroy entire
cities in a few hours, defy all laws of physics effortlessly, mend any item instantly, bring people BACK TO
LIFE (wish or clone), need I go on? I REALLY doubt that guns are more destructive than say, cloudkill or
Power word:kill. Let ALONE pre revelutionary war guns..

------------------
You have obviously exceeded your lowborn heritage and surged to the vanguard of goonery-Edwin
Odeisseron

[This message has been edited by TheBalor (edited 04-04-2001).]

34

Victim
Member
posted 04-04-2001 11:24 PM

Protection from arrows works against guns.

The primary advantage of guns is ease of use. Ease of doesn't matter much in a DnD world as the HP, AC,
and DR on many monsters are too much for normal weapons to defeat. A unit of men with primitive guns
would probably be less effective than the same unit with cross bows. Guns, especially the inaccurate,
unreliable and slow ones, aren't exactly the ultimate weapon. I can't see how getting shot with gun would be
much worse than a bow. Look in the DMG, good firearms are rated at D12, not the magical kill
anything/anyone weapons that you make them out to be.

Even if the guns were as effective as you believe, AoE spells and mass charm/suggestion would cause your
army to explode or shoot each other. How many of those peasents with a day of training would make save
against web, sleep or color spray, let alone powerful magics. Or simple illusion that wastes all your limited
ammo.

How would the industrial society support itself? With druids around, not many people have worked out
amazing farming techniques. Probably the only reason Faerun can support its current urban population is
because of druids. How many people in your cities starve when the crops aren't enhanced?

Of course, people make the assumption that an industrial revolution would be accepted. You believe that
many nations would embrace technology because its advantages. I doubt it. It isn't needed and there is no
pressure for it. The greeks could have begun an industrial revolution but didn't. If the greek's didn't want or
need an industrial revolution, then why would a world rich in magic need one?

Not to mention the fact an industrial, consumer society faced with certain foes is completely helpless. After
magic is abandoned, who can stop a mind flayer? Outsiders? Dragons? How could they even know what they
face? Who would be prepared to resist these external threats?

35

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-04-2001 11:32 PM

*takes deep breath* Dragon scales are harder than reinforced steel, and more resistant according to type.
What do you do against etheral opponents? And ONE DAY OF TRAINING? Don't make me laugh. A policeman
can hit a moving target 1 out of 10 times, and that's with a modern day glock or magnum. Now, if I just
hand a peasant a flint lock(at best) and tell him how to reload, fire, etc.,etc., he'll miss about a million
times. If I were a level 2 mage, I could kill that guy with a magic missle, not to mention screw up his aim
with illusions, go etheral, or just use a stoneskin, he'll be dead.dead.dead.

36

Abbas
Member
posted 04-04-2001 11:51 PM

Hmm, why is it stopped?

What we have are a number of Elves, mostly out of world and by the time most of them would recognize the
facts and really do something the Gnomes would have had a few hundred years and Stealth Bombers,
nuclear rockets...

But to come back to Gnomes nature, they wouldn't start to build great Railroads. They would have an 'Iron
horse' around their village, be pleased and do something else.
Dwarves are Ingenieurs, Gnomes are Scientists.
They don't produce useful things, they produce things, because they want to know if they function.
Same with Gnomish Magic, Illusions are the most facinating kind of Magic.

37

Lannon
Member
posted 04-05-2001 12:00 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Victim:
Protection from arrows works against guns.

The primary advantage of guns is ease of use. Ease of doesn't matter much in a DnD world as
the HP, AC, and DR on many monsters are too much for normal weapons to defeat. A unit of
men with primitive guns would probably be less effective than the same unit with cross bows.
Guns, especially the inaccurate, unreliable and slow ones, aren't exactly the ultimate
weapon. I can't see how getting shot with gun would be much worse than a bow. Look in the
DMG, good firearms are rated at D12, not the magical kill anything/anyone weapons that
you make them out to be.

< The reason is range and armor penetration my friend. If you have not considered teh
effects of armor penetration in your argument then you are completely ignoring why these
weapons immediatly outclassed heavily armored knights>

Even if the guns were as effective as you believe, AoE spells and mass charm/suggestion
would cause your army to explode or shoot each other. How many of those peasents with a
day of training would make save against web, sleep or color spray, let alone powerful magics.
Or simple illusion that wastes all your limited ammo.


How would the industrial society support itself? With druids around, not many people have
worked out amazing farming techniques. Probably the only reason Faerun can support its
current urban population is because of druids. How many people in your cities starve when
the crops aren't enhanced?

Of course, people make the assumption that an industrial revolution would be accepted. You
believe that many nations would embrace technology because its advantages. I doubt it. It
isn't needed and there is no pressure for it. The greeks could have begun an industrial
revolution but didn't. If the greek's didn't want or need an industrial revolution, then why
would a world rich in magic need one?

Not to mention the fact an industrial, consumer society faced with certain foes is completely
helpless. After magic is abandoned, who can stop a mind flayer? Outsiders? Dragons? How
could they even know what they face? Who would be prepared to resist these external
threats?


How are they helpless. Build newer and better explosives. Build bigger guns. Shoot some cannons at the
Dragon. Blow up the mind flayer. Have your own mages enchant your guns. Are you daft man there isnt any
need to kill all the mages, only fools that are trying to hurt the revolution!

As for the fellow that talked about actually shooting someone with a gun. Its different hitting a moving
target with one bullet when that person is moving all around. It is another story when taht same man is
about ten feet away and closing fast. Any fool with a gun will shoot you flat in the chest at that range. Dont
tell me it wouldnt happen.

38

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-05-2001 12:19 AM

*salivates over the idea of a enchanted, +5 vorpal AK-47*

------------------
You have obviously exceeded your lowborn heritage and surged to the vanguard of goonery-Edwin
Odeisseron

39

Lannon
Member
posted 04-05-2001 12:20 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Victim:
Protection from arrows works against guns.

The primary advantage of guns is ease of use. Ease of doesn't matter much in a DnD world as
the HP, AC, and DR on many monsters are too much for normal weapons to defeat. A unit of
men with primitive guns would probably be less effective than the same unit with cross bows.
Guns, especially the inaccurate, unreliable and slow ones, aren't exactly the ultimate
weapon. I can't see how getting shot with gun would be much worse than a bow. Look in the
DMG, good firearms are rated at D12, not the magical kill anything/anyone weapons that
you make them out to be.

Even if the guns were as effective as you believe, AoE spells and mass charm/suggestion
would cause your army to explode or shoot each other. How many of those peasents with a
day of training would make save against web, sleep or color spray, let alone powerful magics.
Or simple illusion that wastes all your limited ammo.

How would the industrial society support itself? With druids around, not many people have
worked out amazing farming techniques. Probably the only reason Faerun can support its
current urban population is because of druids. How many people in your cities starve when
the crops aren't enhanced?

Of course, people make the assumption that an industrial revolution would be accepted. You
believe that many nations would embrace technology because its advantages. I doubt it. It
isn't needed and there is no pressure for it. The greeks could have begun an industrial
revolution but didn't. If the greek's didn't want or need an industrial revolution, then why
would a world rich in magic need one?

Not to mention the fact an industrial, consumer society faced with certain foes is completely
helpless. After magic is abandoned, who can stop a mind flayer? Outsiders? Dragons? How
could they even know what they face? Who would be prepared to resist these external
threats?


I dont know why but part of my response was deleted.

You meantion spells. Well why dont the industrial nations hire their own wizards to combat those of the other
nations? Why not have their mages keep the other mages busy. In the meantime the foot soldiers with
their nifty guns can shoot the armor off the poor fools with swords and make a mess out of archers with
volleys of high powered shot. Why not let a wonderful archane archer have fun empowering the shots for a
musket? All the arguments you make about magic come to nothing. The industrial nation does not have to
abandon magic. They simply will use it in a different way. Enchanted cannon and muskets, or gasp cartridge
loaded weaponry would make short work of those dragons and illithids.

Suddenly the fighter is gone, replaced by glorious alternity with joe shmoe firing shots from his hip and
mowing down morons in plate armor with his machine gun.

As for the problem with druids. Why dont the gnomes have the druids taken out? Why not hire some kindly
adventurers to take out those nasty barbarians that are killing men out in the fields. Why these are hard
working peasants that are simply trying to earn a good days labor. Something needs to be done!
Furthermore, who needs a druid when increased production due to the incorporation of new technology is
possible? dont forget that the industrial revolution inspired advances in farming as well. Those advances in
farming were enough to feed the growing populations of an industrialized nation. Another side note, terrorist
groups do not win wars.

40

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-05-2001 12:50 AM

Gah...I'm starting to lean towards the more magi-tech side(anyone here played FF3/6?) Umm...Lannon, why
do you feel you need to kill the druids and barbs? I think that they could work with the new farming
technology. Think about it; plant growth improved with technology, and then doubled with the spell plant
growth. Ya just seem a bit extreme...

------------------
You have obviously exceeded your lowborn heritage and surged to the vanguard of goonery-Edwin
Odeisseron

41

Lannon
Member
posted 04-05-2001 01:07 AM


quote:

Originally posted by TheBalor:
Gah...I'm starting to lean towards the more magi-tech side(anyone here played FF3/6?)
Umm...Lannon, why do you feel you need to kill the druids and barbs? I think that they could
work with the new farming technology. Think about it; plant growth improved with
technology, and then doubled with the spell plant growth. Ya just seem a bit extreme...



They dont need to be killed. However druids are more concerned with the balance of nature. That being the
case, stripping the land for resources and improving farming techniques by savaging the land would
probably arouse their attention and force some confrontation. Now, if they want to cooperate and perhaps
live within some designated "Wild Zones" maybe something could be worked out .

42

Gez
Member
posted 04-05-2001 04:59 AM

Edena, please, answer me...
Read my previous post (on page one) and tell me WHY there would be a war. Yep, why ?

Because Elves and Druids are a bunch of genociding idiots that want to kill all gnomes at the slightiest
pretext ?

Because the OOC knowledge that pollutions kill animals and induce global warming is magically granted to
just everyone (but not those silly self-claiming "True Good" Gnome) ?

Because it would be impossible to mix magic and technology to create clean and reliable machinery to
everyone ?

Try to be consistant. A permanently Heated metal container can boil water without need for burning carbon.
A photoelectric cell can be forever alimented by a Continual Flame. There's just so much ways of having a
pollution-free industry in a magic world.

And even if you create waste, you can destroy them forever (look at Bottomless Pit in R&R for a low-level
way of disposing of garbage).

With the appropriate precautions, a railroad is of strictly no harms for nature: have it pass on bridges (like a
highway), so that animals pass below it without risks. No black smoke, because the vapor is produced by
throwing water from an Endless Decanter in a Permanently Heated chamber.

Lots of people on this thread acted like rampaging luddites, thirsty for gnome blood. Why so much hate ? (I
have to start a thread called "Hey guys, why do u hate gnomes ?")

Use your Int score, and your Wis score. An industrimagical revolution is not a bad, evil thing.

For those who claim that it will raise Gond's power over those of other gods. Not entirely true. He will sure be
raised in power, but as a god of invention and innovations, as soon as something becomes old-tech it's no
more in his domain. Compare it with Mystra's grasp over all magic. Gond would be about as important as
Mystra in power, but no greater.

Don't forget several other gods have claim over craft and tools (particularly in the Dwarven and Gnome
pantheon).

Furthermore, an industrial revolution would give more power to existing god. Akadi can become the
patroness of Planes and Zeppelins, for example. Shaundakul, or other travel-deity could also have claims
over vehicles. War gods can take claim over guns and firearms: a Torm worshipping soldier will not convert
to the cult of the Wonderbringer because he want to use a gun.

And other deity will emerge. Look at war: it's something that interest lots of people, so they are lots of war
gods. Once industry interest lots of people, new industry gods will emerge.

Dareoon Dalandrove
Member
posted 04-05-2001 06:08 AM

Has anyone read the book The Jackal of Nar? I think if you wanted to add some of these advanced
technologies but keep the medieval feel this is a good model. The most brilliant engineering and scientific
mind is a short little guy too!

------------------



Hey...luck is just one of my many skills.

Rincewind
Member
posted 04-05-2001 06:54 AM

Go check out the Mondus Fumus setting in the Whereabouts boards... the technology there is a fusion of
tech and magic (musket with an extradimensional space to store bullets). I'm bumping it now.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-05-2001 07:36 AM


I've read the Posts.
Read them, and concluded that:

The Industrial Revolution of the Gnomes is not stopped, after all.
It has the backing of too many allied nations at this point to be easily stopped.

The gnomes start combining magic with technology (see the articles by Gez on this page and on page one.)
They invent clean technologies. The skies do not pollute over their cities.
They build with a minimum of destruction to their environment, using magic.
The gnomes attempt to deal with their neighbors peacefully, advertising their new technologies as beneficial,
something to be desired.
The peaceful and beneficial use of combined technology and magic, with all it's new wonders, is advertised
in every city that will listen, shown to the people in World Fair type exhibitions.

Unfortunately, the Zhentarim, Red Wizards, Lords of Calimshan, and the rulers of Mulhorand are not so
reasonable.
These nations and wizards begin a mad production of magical firearms and magical cannon.
Great Red Wizard Ironbacks with hulls of enchanted steel and Cannons of Accuracy roar into the Sea of
Fallen Stars.
A similar situation occurs in the Moonsea.

There is no war. Yet.
The gnomes do not desire war. They will not, however, simply abandon their magical technology because
someone asks them to.
The nations now involved in magical technological research aren't listening to anyone.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-05-2001).]

Gez
Member
posted 04-05-2001 08:19 AM

Thanks to have taken into account my (and also other, less vocal people's) objections on polluting gnomes.

Well, it's an interesting scenario. Maybe we should propose that to Greenwood (as you place this revolution
in the Realms).
It could make it way in D&D 4e's Realms
What would be interesting is that the "Forgotten Folk" will suddenly be the center of much attentions. Maybe
this was even the reason of their technocrusade, they were tired of being ignored...

Hum... With their innate knack for illusion, I think Gnomes could make excellent movie theaters, and
fabulous films. I predict a great success of Gnomes in the leisure industry (once Dwarves will have taken
over the heavy metalworking industry).

Estlor
Member
posted 04-05-2001 01:44 PM

Here's how you can figure that the industrial revolution would EVENTUALLY be stopped.

As people move more and more towards technology they invaribly forget how to do things for themselves.
How many people here know how to ride horses? I'd wager that number is smaller than back in the medival
times. Or how many can start a fire with two sticks?

So people find easier ways to do things. Fighters die out because no one needs to spend all their time
training when they can aim and fire. Wizards die out because no one needs to spend years studying light or
produce fire when they can flip a switch, take train, irrigate by turning a knob, and so on. With the wonders
of technology attainable, people stop looking to the gods to solve their problems and clerics and paladins
go out. The barbarians are civilized and become warriors. Druids and elves retreat to the forests and protect
themselves with wards. Rogues and bards flourish, as do experts, warriors, and commoners.

And this continues for 200 years until all the humanoids that knew about the wonders of the fantasy age are
dead and buried.

Then the elves and druids come back, bringing something that no one has known about for years - magic.

Imagine if a wizard, a cleric, a druid, and a sorcerer dropped into the middle of your local city. Do you think
the police, or even the army, could stop them? You get a lucky shot in on the wizard, the cleric raised him.
The sorcerer tears apart the riot squad with a single fireball. Tanks are swallowed whole and planes buffeted
out of the sky by the druid.

So the gnomes would win for a while, yes. But the Coalition Against Gnomish Technology (CAGT) ultimately
moves region by region, cleansing the land from the gnomish perversions, permitting only those limited
things that do not upset the natural balance to survive. The druids become the Lords of the Land, acting as
regional peace-keepers and overseers. The elves become the Lords of the Culture, acting as the ruling race
until humanity can recover from the dark age CAGT sent them spiraling into.

And ultimately, hundreds of years farther into the future the forces of CAGT have succeeded in breeding a
magical United Toril-Sphere Alliance (UTSA) that lives in unity with nature and provides for all the needs of
the blended culture with clean, efficient magic.

Oh, the industrial revolution is stopped - this much you can be assured of. And the damage those pesky
gnomes caused will be restored with patience and magical purity.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Abbas
Member
posted 04-05-2001 02:00 PM

That's complete nonsense. Nobody would stop to learn Magic, because Spellcasters would earn the big
money.

There are thousand things we would need machines for millions of bucks, a single Wizard or Cleric can do
with Magic.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-05-2001 06:58 PM

So, if what I'm hearing (see above Posts) is true, the Gnomish Industrial Revolution gives way to the
Supremacy of the Druids and Elves.
They now rule all of Toril, and no technology is allowed at all that they do not permit.
In fact, they rule all of Realmspace. The United Toril-Sphere Alliance (UTSA) reigns supreme.
All you dwarves out there, take note!

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-05-2001).]


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
naya
Member
posted 04-05-2001 08:50 PM

my 25th level merchant (let's make him a rogue)... will work an alliance with the gnomes (with my +36 in
diplomacy and my charisma of 28, my "natural" roll of 20)..
then i'll create the first multinational company. i'll hire little half-orcs children to work in my factories 15
hours a day and pay them one copper a month (just so that i have an excuse not to call it slavery!).. then
with my new superpowerfull company i'll start taking over every single industry and finally taking over the
world... that is when I will invent the word "capitalism"...

after that,my other personality will take over tthe body of the merchat: a 25th level cleric named marx...

Lannon
Member
posted 04-05-2001 09:42 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Estlor:
Here's how you can figure that the industrial revolution would EVENTUALLY be stopped.

As people move more and more towards technology they invaribly forget how to do things
for themselves. How many people here know how to ride horses? I'd wager that number is
smaller than back in the medival times. Or how many can start a fire with two sticks?

So people find easier ways to do things. Fighters die out because no one needs to spend all
their time training when they can aim and fire. Wizards die out because no one needs to
spend years studying light or produce fire when they can flip a switch, take train, irrigate
by turning a knob, and so on. With the wonders of technology attainable, people stop
looking to the gods to solve their problems and clerics and paladins go out. The barbarians
are civilized and become warriors. Druids and elves retreat to the forests and protect
themselves with wards. Rogues and bards flourish, as do experts, warriors, and
commoners.

And this continues for 200 years until all the humanoids that knew about the wonders of
the fantasy age are dead and buried.

Then the elves and druids come back, bringing something that no one has known about for
years - magic.

Imagine if a wizard, a cleric, a druid, and a sorcerer dropped into the middle of your local
city. Do you think the police, or even the army, could stop them? You get a lucky shot in on
the wizard, the cleric raised him. The sorcerer tears apart the riot squad with a single
fireball. Tanks are swallowed whole and planes buffeted out of the sky by the druid.

So the gnomes would win for a while, yes. But the Coalition Against Gnomish Technology
(CAGT) ultimately moves region by region, cleansing the land from the gnomish
perversions, permitting only those limited things that do not upset the natural balance to
survive. The druids become the Lords of the Land, acting as regional peace-keepers and
overseers. The elves become the Lords of the Culture, acting as the ruling race until
humanity can recover from the dark age CAGT sent them spiraling into.

And ultimately, hundreds of years farther into the future the forces of CAGT have
succeeded in breeding a magical United Toril-Sphere Alliance (UTSA) that lives in unity with
nature and provides for all the needs of the blended culture with clean, efficient magic.

Oh, the industrial revolution is stopped - this much you can be assured of. And the damage
those pesky gnomes caused will be restored with patience and magical purity.



This is crazy. You are vastly exagerating the powers available to wizards and you are totally ignoring the
advantages available in modern technology. You bet I think an army with rifles could take out a long pc
party. It would take all of an instant for the military to put so much metal in them that they wouldnt be
recognizable as human. That could happen in the first round of combat. Yah one riot squad down, of
course that does nothing for the thousands behind him. All of those thousands carrying firepower superior
to batallions of sword wielding men. All that firepower in little cartridge loaded weapons. You think the
fighter can stand up to that, the wizard, the cleric? Give me a break!!!

Not to meantion that you are still ignoring the fact that magic will have its uses. Ignoring the fact that we
have modern day warriors, ignoring the fact that we have modern day clerics.

The stupid druids can be massacred so can the elves. And guess what if no one is worshipping the gods
they start to slip farther and farther away. No more magic spells for clerics and druids. Not to meantion
that if, as you suggested (because i certainly didnt), that wizards begin to disappear then so does the
weave and so does mystra. No more magic period. Of course there isnt any need to kill off magic, like I
said an enchanted assault rifle would be something special.


Lannon
Member
posted 04-05-2001 11:33 PM

bump

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-05-2001 11:45 PM

therein lies your error. MODERN technology, my friend, does not yet exist. The best they have are
flintlocks, and those take forever to load. I wonder why we all think it would erupt into war. Mages would
make the best of the situation, and although there are many things nowadays that can do a fraction of
the things wizards could do( though at a much,much higher price) wizards can ALWAYS outdo I.R.
technology. And clerical magic would stay strong, for though there are many millions of atheists/agnostics
in this world, I believe that is due to the utter lack of proof of divinity. Clerics are also far more efficient,
and can bring back the dead. BUT, if steampunk,wizardry, and clerical magic combine...Man, you'd have
one helluva civilization. As for druids and rangers? F*ck them.

------------------


Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-06-2001 01:58 AM

How does technology deal with Improved Invisibility? Remember, it's magic, I can see you, but I give off
no energy in ANY spectrum, if I did dwarves would be immune to Invisibility. As far as bullets, you are
forgetting Protection from Normal Missiles. As far as the early days of the war go, our own history tell you
that a squad of archers will annihilate easily twice their number of musket, or even single shot rifle types.
Our world had many cultural blocks to the growth of archer based armies. The few who utilized archers
gained overwhelming victories in what seemed to be one sided battles against them. In a world with such
things as Elven nations dedicated to archery, and archer based military, the early gunners and artillerists
are screwed. Guns became popular because any idiot can pick one up and kill with it with no training, but if
there had been an army against it's makers, and they (the pro-tech types) had armed their soldiers with,
say, Civil War era guns, the archers would win with very few casualties. The guns development would
have ended right then and there, along with the rest of the 'Industrial Revolution' that the Elvish army was
out to halt. (And btw, trained police officers, who I respect, miss way more than two thirds of their shots at
shoot-out ranges of under six feet according to their own statistics.)

The 'why' of the war is the existence of the ability to see the future, and of gods who do not want their
world ruined. Add in that the 'D&D Universe' is supposed to be based on more absolute standards of Good
and Evil, and you have people out to stop the eventual destruction of their world. Make no mistake, bad
people will make trains that pollute, and will toss their garbage anywhere, regardless of ways to do things
cleanly because, hey "dem wizurds cost money, and I gots to gets my profits!" (can't lose those extra
three coppers a month.) Not to mention noise pollution, and the disturbance to the virgin forests inherent
in building and running even a 'clean' 'elevated' railway straight across the land. (And remember, Faerun
is not the cesspool of misery that the real dark ages were and has magic, so the growth of technology is
not needed to feed the people, or stem the spread of disease. And there are plenty of races who are at
their essence magic, and would rapidly be killed by our polluted way of living.)

So, back to war, and Death To Technology!

Blood Jester

------------------
Laugh 'til you die.

mastermind
Member
posted 04-06-2001 05:27 AM

bump

------------------
mastermind

The Keeper of the
Dungeon Dimension

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-06-2001 06:06 AM

Ok, I have read the above Threads.
And, I must conclude, sadly, that:

The elves and druids do actually go to war against the gnomes and all the nations industrializing.
Some nations and religions join the elves and druids.
Some nations and religions join the gnomes and industrializing nations.
Let us assume a major war is now in progress on Toril.

Which side does your character take? And why?
If your character does not take sides, and remains neutral, why?

Gez
Member
posted 04-06-2001 06:43 AM

I join the Gnome!
Fight the stupid, obscurantist Druids who do not understand technology, magic and nature can combine
nicely!
Kill these obnoxious, elitists bastards!

Estlor, your Druids are Talibans!

I encourage all who want to fight against obscurantism and oppression to choose the good side: the
Gnome Technomages' one!

(And for all the do-gooders here, I'll repeat once again that Gnomes are NG, whereas Druids are TN:
Gnomes act for the betterment of all, Druids act to protect the statu-quo, even if it's not optimal).

Estlor, be ready for a bad surprise: Gnomish technology is deeply entertwined with magic. People continue
to become wizard, cleric (and even druid) in the industrialized land, because they fit the engineer/scientist
role.

So, magic don't disappear, it even becomes omnipresent. In the average gnomish city, you have
everwarm chamber vaporing everflowing water, the vapor activate electric generator, condensate, and is
then canalized to warm habitations, before being annihilated (to avoid flooding).

Vehicles are similarly powered by magical infinite energy sources. Magic is studied.

As a result, the gnome industry will not looks like our mundane industry, far from it. Magical wards will
protect engine. And when the army will have to battle the revolted Taliban-druids, the Gnomish Military
Force will have +5 Rifles, +4 Cannons of Flaming Burst loaded with +3 Brillant Energy Flaming Missile;
soldiers will be equipped by Adamantine Powersuit of Lifeforce regenerations, etc.

It will not be a fight of High Magic against Technology, but a fight of Primitivism+High Magic against
High-Tech+High-Magic.

Guess who will won...

Gez
Member
posted 04-06-2001 06:56 AM

Invisibility ?
Duh! Have you seen the Bow of True Arrow ? True Strike at will! (so you fire one round on two, but you're
pretty sure to hit).
True Strike allow you to ignore miss chance due to concealment, invisibility, blur, displacement, mirror
image, etc. Against anything!
Protection from arrow give you DR 20/+1 against projectile weapons.
All I can tell you is that Keen Flaming +5 bullets fired by a +5 Rifle of True Hits will be something like
d12+1d6+10 damages, ignoring all DR except those of the X/- forms, and ignoring misschance from all
magic tricks.

Re-read my posts (I insist) all you gnome-haters: they will have several gods behind them (BTW, you do
remember that Gond, Deneir and Mystra are rather friendly ? All knowledge-deity tend to appreciate each
other).

You know, reloading time for a Magical Musket with Bullet of Returning is pretty small: you fire, you hit,
the bullet is ready, lather, rinse, repeat.

Gnome Rules !

Estlor
Member
posted 04-06-2001 10:27 AM

You honestly over-estimate the human nature that everyone has.

Point in case: Humans are lazy. Do you know how a VCR works? Not exactly, because all you need to know
is press play and it does.

So even if the technology would be magical (which, if you go back to page 1, it states they discover STEAM
power, which is natural and implies their technology will be a natural development, not magical), only a
handful would even remember the magic needed to build it. Suppose you have an efficient, enchanted
construction plant where all you do is turn a nob and a gnomish whizzel-wob is created. After a hundred
years, no one has a clue how to make a whizzel-wob because all they know is turn a nob and it's there.
Likewise, the machine never breaks down, so no one knows how to enchant a new one.

So when the elvish wizards come and dispel the machine, no more whizzel-wobs.

Do you know how to fix your car at home? Most do not because they don't have to. Imagine a world where
enchanted cars never broke down. Soon no one would know how to fix them or enchant them because
they always were just there.

Even if technology is for the good of all, that's why the elves and druids oppose it. Technology makes
people lazy and ignorant. By taking the technology away and creating a new society, the elves foster the
relearning of lost crafts and arts until the world is a more learned place.

So yes, people WOULD stop practicing magic and praying to the gods for help. Why waste all that time
learning magic missile when you can pick up a gnomish handgun of oopsie and do the same thing with no
training? And with no potions of longevity in the game anymore, soon the great masters die out and only
the elves and druids have magic.

Face it, the gnomes may have good intentions, but the advent of technology means the destruction of
magic as we know it. And as such, the new Gnomish Trade League (GTL) will eventually fall to he CAGT
and give yield to the UTSA. And thank heavens that the elves are good as well - imagine if the orcs took
over!

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-06-2001 12:35 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Gez:
Invisibility ?
Duh! Have you seen the Bow of True Arrow ? True Strike at will! (so you fire one round on
two, but you're pretty sure to hit).
True Strike allow you to ignore miss chance due to concealment, invisibility, blur,
displacement, mirror image, etc. Against anything!
Protection from arrow give you DR 20/+1 against projectile weapons.
All I can tell you is that Keen Flaming +5 bullets fired by a +5 Rifle of True Hits will be
something like d12+1d6+10 damages, ignoring all DR except those of the X/- forms, and
ignoring misschance from all magic tricks.

Re-read my posts (I insist) all you gnome-haters: they will have several gods behind them
(BTW, you do remember that Gond, Deneir and Mystra are rather friendly ? All
knowledge-deity tend to appreciate each other).

You know, reloading time for a Magical Musket with Bullet of Returning is pretty small: you
fire, you hit, the bullet is ready, lather, rinse, repeat.

Gnome Rules !

Gez:

I was going off topic and replying to your comments about modern day 'real world' police dealing with the
sudden appearance of an adventuring party.

But I will say that most of the pro-techno folks seem to be relying on a LOT of magic to win this war. What
happens when the majority of mages and non-PC-race magic beings join the anti-tech side out of
self-preservation?

Also, druids no longer need to be true neutral any more. Things will get scary when the Neutral Good and
Neutral Evil druids band together in a common cause (along with the LN, CN, and TN druids.)

Blood Jester

------------------
Laugh 'til you die.

(Post 3) Thread One of the 1st IR

Icarus
Member
posted 04-06-2001 01:39 PM

Well, it has been an interesting read, but now I think I'll answer the question.

My players would either:
A - jump on the tech bandwagon and milk it for all its worth.


Or

B - fight to the death against the encroaching technologies.


Enkhidu
Member
posted 04-06-2001 02:03 PM

As an interesting aside...

You might want to pick up a book called The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump. It's a neat book that details a
"modern" world that uses magic for all the little things that we use technology for.

It's an interesting, Alternate Earth read.

Enkhidu

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-06-2001 09:12 PM

Looking at the Posts above, I would have to conclude that the gnomes and their industrializing allies are
currently winning the war against the elves and druids.

Primarily because the gnomes and their allies are also using magic, in addition to their technology.
They are combining technology and magic into technomagic.
Their foes are only using pure magic.

Also, the gnomes are winning because their allies are ruthless.
Ruthless. These industrializing nations are willing to do whatever it takes to win, building ever better (and
more horrific) weapons of war, attacking and burning whole elvish forests, devastating their own natural
environments with mines and logging.
The gnomes disavow such behavior, and do not engage in it, but they have no control over their power
mad allies, who see technomagic as the way to world supremacy.

The gnomes might even go to war against these nations, but the elves and druids are attacking them
also, so the gnomes have no choice but to carry on their part of the war against said elves and druids.

The nations who have joined the elves and druids are at a disadvantage.
They have only pure magic, and no technomagic.
Thus, they are outmatched. They are fighting hard, but the magical firearms and magical cannon, the
enemy Ironbacks of the sea, are taking a heavy toll on them.

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-06-2001 09:47 PM

My character, of no special importance, would definitely join the Technomagocracy. Guns are cool.
"BANG! Hee hee hee he...."

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-06-2001 09:58 PM

Lessee here...in one cornah lots of animals. With a teensy bit of magical backup. And a bunch of hippie
elves. Against archmages, goodly, neutral, and evil priests, just about every nation/city-state/powerful
orginization in the world that believes in progress, and better lives for their people(or more power). Huh.
Who's in the right now?

------------------


DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-07-2001 12:24 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Blood Jester:
How does technology deal with Improved Invisibility? Remember, it's magic, I can see you,
but I give off no energy in ANY spectrum, if I did dwarves would be immune to
Invisibility. Blood Jester





Very simply, Eventually someone will invent RADAR or SONAR. In fact in a world with invisiblity they would
be invented faster, Your not phased, the Radar or Sonar ping will bounce off you so slick, If you really
want to hide from technology you have to go etherial, invisiblity isn't going to do it.



Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-07-2001 12:48 AM

Everyone seems to be overlooking those teensy-weensy magical critters we humbly refer to as DRAGONS.
Since these guys are all intelligent enough to see a train-wreck headed their way, I think I can safely say
they will pretty much unanimously way in on the side of us 'wussy' elves, druids, and critters. There is no
way that the technomagic side can hope to scale up the pace of their discovery/invention cycle fast enough
to counter these bad boys. Our side will use our magic (as well as their own) to buffer them against the
'magic' side of the technomagic coalition, and they can easily handle anything 'tech' that the fledgling
technomagic forces can hurl at them.

Score one for the good guys.

Blood Jester

------------------
Laugh 'til you die.

[This message has been edited by Blood Jester (edited 04-07-2001).]

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-07-2001 12:54 AM


quote:

Originally posted by DarwinofMind:

Very simply, Eventually someone will invent RADAR or SONAR. In fact in a world with
invisiblity they would be invented faster, Your not phased, the Radar or Sonar ping will
bounce off you so slick, If you really want to hide from technology you have to go etherial,
invisiblity isn't going to do it.




Silence 15' Radius. Bye-bye Sonar. And I think RADAR will take long enough to develop to be irrelevant in
our little conflict. And in the 'real' world, radar can NOT target accurately enough (from a hand-held unit)
for a foot soldier to target an individual with a handgun unless they stand still for a long time and let him
set up two tripods with RADAR and gun to target.

------------------
Laugh 'til you die.

DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-07-2001 01:22 AM

Just as one final thing for everyone on this thread that seems to think that technology would never
devolop in DND world becuase magic is better, You'ld better rule 0 out the crossbow.

Oh while your at it, Rule 0 out the sword, It I can throw a fireball at you, why invent the sword.

Technology just happens, It's so much better than spells that you can only use so many times a day. It's
inevitable.

None of your Eco Warriors are Eco Warriors becuase no one realizes without looking into the future that
this is dangerous to the enviroment and no one is going to waste there per day spell alotment on looking
into the future of this without reason.



Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-07-2001 02:19 AM


Very well. The above article makes sense. I'll go with it.

The dragons join the war on the side of the elves and druids.
The entrance of dragons into the war escalates everything dramatically.
Subsequently, there is colossal destruction as those dragons target industrial areas.
Huge explosions and fires destroy large areas of major cities. Dragons streak across the skies, smashing
trains and sinking ironbacks. The fledgling telegraph invented by the gnomes, communications carried by
wires, is shredded.
Farmers everywhere flee their fields, leaving their crops to rot, terrified of the death from the sky.
Subsequently, anarchy and starvation, and disease, break out over wide areas of Faerun.

Now, there is GREAT anger against the elves, druids, and their draconic allies, because of the massive
civilian casualities.
In the city firestorms, thousands burned to death. Others lie crippled and maimed from explosions. Strict
rationing of food is in effect, and people spend much of their time in newly built underground shelters.

The gnomes suffered less because they were underground heavily to begin with, but they now firmly
embrace their allies, and ignore all the deprivations their allies had been doing, because what the dragons
are doing is much worse.
The loose coalition of industrializing nations, previously only a loose confederation, declares themselves
unified against the foe.
They are taking the elves, druids, and dragons seriously now.
They are now longer thinking about defeating these enemies.
They are thinking about exterminating these enemies.
There is now a state of total war.
All elves caught in the gnomish/industrialized states regions are imprisoned or killed outright.
All druidical religions are outlawed in these areas, the druids imprisoned or killed, and all other clerical
institutions are shut down or convert over to wartime, using their powers to aid their native lands.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-07-2001 02:34 AM


Oh yes, I forgot something.

Considering the capabilities of archmages and archmagistresses with Time Stop (see the thread How to
cast 19 to 54 spells using the core rules):

A second wave of massive destruction hits both sides as the archmages and archmagistresses take to the
field.
Kings and Queens die, their royal palaces are smashed flat, mage towers are blown to smithereens, secret
fortresses annihilated, command and control centers disintegrated, and vast numbers of civilians flee the
exposed cities for the imagined safety of forest and country.


paperboy
Member
posted 04-07-2001 02:51 AM

Hmmm . . . well, let's see. Gnomes, industrial revolution, capitalism, modernism, . . . I got it. I would wait
it out. As a 25th level wizard I'd extend my life a good long time and wait for the world to turn real sour.
We are talking full-on modernization of enough of the globe to create a worldwide consummer society that
it totally dependant on what is essentially an information storage device. And THAT is when I will spring
into action. I will rename myself "Bill Gates" and head up a 'company' called microsoft. Eventually I will
become the single most wealthy and powerful mortal in existence and be able to defy even the gods. I
figure by then I'll be like 90th level, if I play my cards right, and then I will simply ascend into the
heavens with my unlimited power and cause no end of misery on earth. For you see, I will be an evil god
who creates software that is glitchy and funky and dumb. Muhahah. MUhahah. MUAHAHAHH!!!

. . . never let me post again.

[This message has been edited by paperboy (edited 04-07-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-07-2001 03:03 AM

War Update #1:

On the side of the Elvish Alliance:

Blood Jester (he was always on the elven side, and has won great renown)
Estlor (he was always on the elven side, and is famous for talking the dragons into fighting on the elven
side)
Victim (he is famous for helping to start the war, with his massive sabotage of machines, factories,
depots, and the destruction of vast amounts of gnomish research. He's still fighting, leading his covert
forces to victory)

On the side of the Technomancy Confederation:

The Balor (he was neutral, but he didn't like elves or druids, apparently - they tried to arrest him, so he
joined the technomancy)
Darwin of Mind (he was neutral, but his opinions caused the elves to arrest him: he's escaped and joined
the technomancy)
Gez (he was always on the technomancer side, and he is ardently fighting in their cause)
Icarus (he's actually on both sides, but nevermind that ... )
Lannon (he's been on the technomancer side from the start, and has won great victories for them)
Riot Gear (he's eagerly joined the technomancer side)


Neutrals

Enkhidu (this philosophical character is contemplating it all, and trying to stay out of the mess)
Naya (not on either side, but he IS now a wealthy character: his war profiteering and slave labor tactics
have filled his secret treasury with a million gold pieces)
Paperboy (he, like a lot of other figures in the shadows, is waiting for the war to end so he can take over
in the ensuing power vacuum)

Upper Krust, where are you?! You could end this war - you're bright enough to figure out the way to finish
it ...

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-07-2001).]

elfric
Member
posted 04-07-2001 08:48 AM

My gnome would be in the front of the train shouting "stupid humans it´s our time now"
lalalalala


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Dr Skull
Member
posted 04-07-2001 09:16 AM

I'd join the Gnomes in a second. (Besides the fact that I hate Druids and often play Gnomes. Technology
means more leisure and less hard work for more people, and I'm all for that.

------------------
Dr Skull
Infidel defilers, they shall all drown in lakes of blood.

buzzard
Member
posted 04-07-2001 10:05 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Blood Jester:
How does technology deal with Improved Invisibility? Remember, it's magic, I can see you,
but I give off no energy in ANY spectrum, if I did dwarves would be immune to Invisibility.
As far as bullets, you are forgetting Protection from Normal Missiles. As far as the early days
of the war go, our own history tell you that a squad of archers will annihilate easily twice their
number of musket, or even single shot rifle types. Our world had many cultural blocks to the
growth of archer based armies. The few who utilized archers gained overwhelming victories in
what seemed to be one sided battles against them. In a world with such things as Elven
nations dedicated to archery, and archer based military, the early gunners and artillerists are
screwed. Guns became popular because any idiot can pick one up and kill with it with no
training, but if there had been an army against it's makers, and they (the pro-tech types) had
armed their soldiers with, say, Civil War era guns, the archers would win with very few
casualties. The guns development would have ended right then and there, along with the rest
of the 'Industrial Revolution' that the Elvish army was out to halt. (And btw, trained police
officers, who I respect, miss way more than two thirds of their shots at shoot-out ranges of
under six feet according to their own statistics.)

Blood Jester



I'd restate your anti-tech argument if I were you. Civil war guns are actually enough superior to bows and
arrows to prove you wrong. Earlier ones were pretty poor, but once the Minie ball was introduced, there was a
sea change in warfare. The Minie ball allowed for reasonable rapid reloading of rifled weapons. This
increased effective range to something like 1000 yards. No bow can do that. Also given the pre packages
charges and bullets, reloading was not so slow anymore. You took out the paper case, tore it with your
teeth, poured it down the barrel, dropped a bullet on it (I'm not sure if you had to pack it down or not in this
era, you probably did), placed a percussion cap on the firing pan, and BLAM. Then you could really reach out
and touch someone. The civil war was so bloody because technology had advanced while tactics hadn't.

Also the Civil war did see the introduction of repeating rifles (the Henry and the Spencer), breechloading
artillery, and the Gatling gun.
Protection from normal missiles will do nothing against artillery. Improved invisibility won't do much against
massed fire into the area.

However, if you are talking about earlier weapons, like American Revolutionary War period, then yes, those
muskets sucked. However the case was made for Railroad era technology, and since weapons always keep
pace with other technology, I'd say the mages are in trouble.

Also the real advantage of the tech side- logistics. Railroads mean you can get your troops to any battle
much more quickly. Thus troops don't need to be dispersed to guard a front. Also re-supply becomes much
easier.

I'm not saying that it's be a romp or anything, but technology does have its advantages.

Buzzard

zouron
Member
posted 04-07-2001 04:17 PM

My level 25th necromancer (actually he is more but that is another matter) would make alliances on the
technomancer sides early, and while the was escalate gather an huge army of undead to protect his interest,
while he would aid the gnome with extensive magical knowledge and research. His life devoted to the study
of magic he would use his alliance with the gnomes to gather all magical material book, knowledge and so
on he could, make his carstle a sanctuary for all people devoted solely to magic as a protection. By the time
the dragons do enter the war and the time mage do start his estate would be well protected by the magic
and observing the war, the gnomes no longer completely honouring their agreement would still be kept
allianced, but in a passive way.

My necromancer would gather those he could and prepare for the gods interception in the war, just in case
setting up a stronghold on a demiplane specifically created for this, gather all things magical they can. The
undead armies gathered would still be guarding the estate but also expanding their territory gathering land
as far as possible, devoting the land to the study of magic, integrrated with technology and as a stand
alone, using whatever means of magic and technology to keep enemies at bay. This there is a large focus
on magic education of youth also becomes an important part of those villages/towns gathered under their
rule.

The plan is to gatehr as much magic as possible and create a safe haven for it, offering that druids can
study side by side with gnomes how to make nature and technology co-exist, but at the same time use
powerful magic that those that comes over their board are true to their word and bind them to their
agreement.

As soon as a reasonable power base at home is established, then seek out both parts to negotiate peace
treaty for the better of all.

hmm sounds like gun

Lannon
Member
posted 04-07-2001 05:25 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:

Very well. The above article makes sense. I'll go with it.

The dragons join the war on the side of the elves and druids.
The entrance of dragons into the war escalates everything dramatically.
Subsequently, there is colossal destruction as those dragons target industrial areas.
Huge explosions and fires destroy large areas of major cities. Dragons streak across the
skies, smashing trains and sinking ironbacks. The fledgling telegraph invented by the
gnomes, communications carried by wires, is shredded.
Farmers everywhere flee their fields, leaving their crops to rot, terrified of the death from
the sky.
Subsequently, anarchy and starvation, and disease, break out over wide areas of Faerun.

Now, there is GREAT anger against the elves, druids, and their draconic allies, because of the
massive civilian casualities.
In the city firestorms, thousands burned to death. Others lie crippled and maimed from
explosions. Strict rationing of food is in effect, and people spend much of their time in newly
built underground shelters.

The gnomes suffered less because they were underground heavily to begin with, but they
now firmly embrace their allies, and ignore all the deprivations their allies had been doing,
because what the dragons are doing is much worse.
The loose coalition of industrializing nations, previously only a loose confederation, declares
themselves unified against the foe.
They are taking the elves, druids, and dragons seriously now.
They are now longer thinking about defeating these enemies.
They are thinking about exterminating these enemies.
There is now a state of total war.
All elves caught in the gnomish/industrialized states regions are imprisoned or killed
outright.
All druidical religions are outlawed in these areas, the druids imprisoned or killed, and all
other clerical institutions are shut down or convert over to wartime, using their powers to aid
their native lands.


Very well the dragons are in it. Now its time to make them an offer. Look at this prototype most magnificent
dragon, for us this is a monstrously huge gun which would be unwieldy in combat and impossible for us to
use. For you it is the ultimate extension of your own prowess. We offer you a handgun for the dragon, no
other creature has the strength and power of you and your brethren. Only you dragons can use these
weapons... If you will take up arms on our side we will begin providing these arms to your most magnificent
selves. Will you be willing to aid us?

As for magic, we realize its usefulness. It helps our economy, helps production, and our mages can keep
their mages busy.

And remember to give our industrialized societies a chance to retaliate Edena, we have to be able to kill
some of these dragons and some of these mages...

I think its time to set some ounfriendly neighbors homes on fire, and I want to know about the dragons
responses.

been fun

maddman75
Member
posted 04-07-2001 05:39 PM

Alright boys and girls, try this one on for size....

The great technology war has spread across faerun. Several powerful characters would likely seek to escape
to somewhere saner. Some of them would undoubtedly make thier way to Sigil to relax a bit.

The planars would hear of this war between nature and the technology. The celestial would weep at the loss
of life. The Modrons might be tempted to go and join the gnomes. The Slaadi would eat whoever was trying
to tell them about it.

But the demons and devils would drool.

Both would want the weapons for the blood war. Devils would appear and make offers to the gnomes, help
against the nature lovers in exchange for thier weaponry.

The Demons would start raiding the gnomish areas mercilessly, stealing what they could. As the war
escalates, several Demon princes try to make deals with the nature lovers - we'll help you destroy the
techies, just let us take the stufff when the fighting is over.

It doesn't really matter if either side takes the fiends up on thier offer. They will see this as a possible edge
in their endless war. They will send fiend after fiend into faerun, fighting for all eternity. By the time the
gnomes or techies could be said to have won, the fiends will be so deeply entrinced they will have forgotten
why they are fighting on this plane in the first place. Faerun is now the from lines in the Blood War.

I hope you gnomes are happy!

------------------
"If I ever get a tumor I'm gonna name it Marla."

Lannon
Member
posted 04-07-2001 06:02 PM

Furthermore, now that we have technology we are not as needful of magic arms for our men. Our mages
and dragons can be offered a large percentage of the magical spoils and we need only collect large amounts
of essential ore (iron, steel, etc).

As said we can use enhancements on our weapons. Our weapons can be enchanted. These can be accuracy
enchantments, speed enhancements etc.. Additionally our industrialized societies can keep working on
ammunition research, this is most important and needs to be developed. Furthermore, Edena has already
given us railroads, so technically we should already have cartridge loaded weaponry. This means that we
need only find the mechanisms appropriate for rapid fire capability (of course observe that at this time in
our own history the gatling gun was available and had a rate of fire that exceeded most modern machine
guns. These rapid firing weapons can be enchanted, perhaps an enchantment to have them spin the barrels
on their own... Of course when the technology comes along the magic can be replaced with the mechanics.).

Furthermore, its time to contact the dwarves. They should be informed that some are taking a negative view
of technology and may take some of their ire out on the followers of Clangeddin(sp?). We would like their
help, this will include an offer of peace and joint industrialization and research. "Your dwarven fighters will be
given the chance to be trained with our weaponry and the weaponry produced by the revolution in the future.
This will aid you in your war against the underdark races. And will further protect the dwarven nation from
dangerous outlanders. Additionally, your homes will no longer be inhabited by the putrid scum, orcs, and
drow. We ask only that we come together as brothers in this war against the barbaric magic users whom do
nothing but destroy our homes and unleash dragons in our midst. Will you join us?"

Furthermore, I want to point out the benefits of technology for those taking part in overland commerce.
Bodyguards can be armed with powerful weaponry that drastically increases survivability. Undoubtedly the
people without magic at hand will recognize its usefulness. And undoubtedly those men and women with
magic will recognize its ability to augment their own power. This should encourage some to join us.

Furthermore, I still do not see why some regions are going to be revolting against industrialiation. So far
only fringe groups have been presented as possible dissenters. I have yet to see a reasonable argument as
to why any *nation* would want to keep industrialization away from its borders. A non industrialized society
simply cannot compete with one that is (see civil war for examples). Furthermore, it provides additional
economic opportunities. The only people I have seen upset here are individual players that simply dont want
to see industry in the realms. I am not hearing from the huge *nations* that would be adopting this
technology. Provide some useful examples of why some nations would revolt against this and then we can
have a war. And if we are fighting, well then, all my suggestions above apply. We can make all these offers
to different factions, and more...

been fun



Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-07-2001 09:41 PM

War Update #2:

The war is going very badly for the elves, druids, and their allies, both men and dragons.
Lannon is successfully talking dragons into switching sides! (you know how dragons are ... where there is
loot, there goes a dragon's heart)
Now the elves are learning what it means to suffer dragon attack.
Their forests are burning, their tree cities smashed asunder.
Sacred druid groves, it is discovered, make great aerial targets of opportunity, and the kindling left
afterwards makes a great bonfire.

Thanks to one Maddman75, a large number of Outsiders are joining the war, especially Fiends, and they are
taking both sides.
As long as mages are willing to let them into the world, these Outsiders continue to increase in number.

Another reason the technomancy is winning is simple: more people are supporting it than people are
supporting the elves/druids.
Just look at the list below! And I am guessing that, if more people on this list are taking the
technomancer's side, then surely PCs are lining up to fight for the technomancy!

On the side of the Elvish Alliance:

Blood Jester
Estlor
Victim

On the side of the Technomancy Confederation:

The Balor
Buzzard
Darwin of Mind
Dr Skull
Elfric
Gez
Icarus
Lannon
Zouron (secretly neutral)


Neutrals

Enkhidu
Naya
Paperboy

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-07-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-07-2001 09:51 PM

Whoah, whoah, my side is usin' FIENDS?!! I form a 4th party in this war. The people who want to stop this
war before the realms are ripped asunder (though I'm neither mage, engineer, nor elf or druid, so I don't
wield alot of power..) I think I could get most of the heros of the realm, plus alot of extraplanar help like
celestials, though I could just ask Eremith and have him make everyone kiss and make up before he gives
them the mental abilities of lizards.
(edit, lol, I just noticed that my stance on this runs contradictory to my sig and my name..)
------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

[This message has been edited by TheBalor (edited 04-07-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-08-2001 03:28 AM

There have, indeed, been several calls for peace.

But peace requires you sit down with the enemy and negotiate.

Let us assume that is possible.
Let us assume both sides send negotiators.

What do you wish to negotiate?
What terms are you demanding of the other side?
What price must be paid for peace?

Forrester
Member
posted 04-08-2001 03:56 AM

You know, I know it seems like I'm going out on a limb here -- but I'm going to go AGAINST the Elvish
Alliance.

What the hay. Count my goblins 'n kobolds in . . . as long as nobody tries to kill 'em. We humanoids have
little problem with pollution -- and this technology stuff could move us out of the proverbial Stone Age. And
we hate the drow just as much as you above-worlders.

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-08-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-08-2001 04:51 AM

You heard him (look just above)
And Forrester's word carries heavy weight against the elves.

Into the war come the goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, gnolls, kobolds, and more than a few other humanoid races
eager to take advantage of the chaos to carve out a home for themselves.

Will they cooperate with the gnomes?
Not likely.

Will they cooperate with the large, ruthless nations who have embraced technomancy, and who are offering
them large supplies of magical firearms, primitive explosives (and even a few magical gatling guns)?
You bet.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-08-2001).]

zouron
Member
posted 04-08-2001 09:33 AM

A negotiation of peace, would could prove very useful, I would as far do my best to convince both sides
negotiators should be someone very important so that both sides shows they are serious.

My necromancer would of course then have some of his most powerful minions he could gather (and that
noone knew he was associated with), break in and kidnap the ones in question. Keep them hidden. While
the two start fighting again (of course since they are sure the other side did it).
My necromancer would wait until both sides realise that neither side have the VIPs, then encourage his side
to send out a party of heroes to get their VIP back, also through whatever connection he might have,
throuygh middle men suggest the same to the nature side.
The plan would then be forcing them to work together using both their strengths equally to free the VIPs,
over an extremely long series of adventures. Then perhaps there would be a chance some actually with
power on both sides believes coorperation is possible and that both sides can live side by side, even without
great compromises. And of course offer that those who seek to know how it can be done, into the secrets of
the studies of nature/technology can coorperate (through magic of course), that has been researched by
those academics in his own "university".

At least it could give a minor start to peace, or an option, if it works.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-08-2001 09:46 AM

Well, ok ...

The first effort at a diplomatic settlement between the Elven Alliance and the Technomancy Confederation
collapses when the diplomats on both sides are kidnapped.
Nobody knows where the diplomats are, or whether they are even alive.

Meanwhile, the war across Faerun rages on, and the Technomancer Confederacy is slowly gaining the upper
hand.

Will there be an effort to rescue the diplomats?
Will it be a joint effort?
That's up to you people out there ... what do your characters do?

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-08-2001 09:57 AM

My character attempts to rescue the diplomats!

:: Rolls a d20. ::

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-08-2001 07:57 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Dr Skull:
I'd join the Gnomes in a second. (Besides the fact that I hate Druids and often play Gnomes.
Technology means more leisure and less hard work for more people, and I'm all for that.


Obviously you skipped the anthropology/sociology classes in college. The move away from a
hunter/gatherer society to an agricultural society drastically reduced leisure time. And later, the growth of
technology has reduced overall leisure time further still.

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-08-2001 08:27 PM

Wait a minute, when did we lose the dragons? Just because the Techno's offered them guns? Creatures of
such awesome inherent power are going to be impressed by having to carry around a heavy, awkward
cannon? How about we show them how easy it is to carry off their entire horde with one of these nifty steam
engines? They live for hundreds of years, they might take a more long term view of the conflict. And as far
as them indecriminantly blasting apart the country-side, hey give us a little credit for tactics.

quote:

Originally posted by Lannon:

I think its time to set some ounfriendly neighbors homes on fire...


Start setting the Elven homes on fire and most of the good aligned human Kingdoms will have sympathy for
our side. Thanks for the new allies!

As far as the Dwarves go, let us point out to them how railways and steam engines will tear apart their
beloved mountains, earth, and rock. No skill, no personal effort, no respect for the Stone, just BOOM, and
no more mountain. And how the ease of rail travel will bring tourists to visit the 'cute little men' on a daily
basis.

And as far as 'wasting' one of you daily spell slots on 'spells to see the future', Wizards have been 'wasting'
their DIVINATIONS on such things since the birth of magic use. Many scholarly wizards would look into the
outcome of this new invention, and any remotely intelligent wizard would want to know how such a radical
new invention would impact them.

OT - as far as the 'quality' of Civil war guns...The arguments that prove the inferiority of those firearms to
bow and arrow are extensive, and I'm not a great typists, so I won't try to repeat them here. If you want see
an excellent scholarly presentation of the power of the bow, try to get a hold of the book (out of print)
Arrows Against Steel: A History of the Bow in Modern Warfare. Author Huxley.

Blood Jester

(P.S. - Edena, I think you missed on who brought in the Dragons )

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-08-2001 10:34 PM

All right, I have some logistical concerns for both sides in this struggle...

How many druids are there? Can they be everywhere at every time? The same rings true with mages, and
clerics. I read posts where there are druids and mages battling the Technocracy at every point, but are there
really that many?

I don't believe that mages, druids or clerics are all that prevalent in any world in D&D. Sure, they're bigshots
wherever you go, but that's a pretty big assumption in thinking that the old guard can fight them on their
own terms whenever they please...

If these magical troopers are on the front lines, they'll be nickle and dimed to death. The one thing that
rings true about tech is that you can afford to attrition your enemy to death. This is where humans come
in... who would join the side of the technocracy not because it will make their lives easier, but it will make it
more equal. When a man can hold a gun, or a better crossbow, or man a steam powered ironclad, and know
that he has a chance against the unknown magics of elf and druid, what's to stop him from joining that
side?

It can take a day to build a fine firearm, and given the level of Fordism I'm reading, they can be produced
in grosses. Gnomes behind the management and engineering, and the humans behind the machines and
on the front lines. Why would this happen? Because technology gives the common man/gnome the power to
do things only mages, clerics and druids could do... It raises up the commoner if not in reality, then
symbolically. How many have died for their King and Country? For their flag? For their brotherhood?
Symbolism is strong, and technology is the equalizer.

The elite are no longer the elite. When this sort of thing comes along, ideologies that support the fact that
all men are created equal (see Locke, Rousseau, Bentham, J.S. Miln et al)... When governments are
believed to serve the people and not the other way around, things will change.

This is not a war of ideology, though, it is a war of power... I shall return and further explain, but I'm gonna
go see a late showing of "Blow."

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:18 AM

War Update #3:

The elves have driven back the Technomancy, and the war is back to an even match now.
This is heavily due to the defection of The Balor to the elven side.

More and more Outsiders are coming into the conflict.
Unfortunately, both sides are quickly discovering the Outsiders are out of control ... anybody's control.

Riot Gear has successfully freed the diplomats.
However, Zouron was crafty, and the diplomats cannot identify who kidnapped them, or what happened to
them after being kidnapped (they have amnesia!)

Thanks to the efforts of Blood Jester, the elves have beaten back the Technomancy from their strongholds.
The Technomancy lost a lot of people as they were driven back.

Naya, using his slave labor factories employing half orc children, is growing very wealthy off this war (see his
Post, above.)

Some of the nations of Faerun, like Luruar - where elves and humans walk together in peace - are
struggling furiously to stay neutral in this war.

As the war rages, new and better firearms and explosives are being developed (war tends to have this effect
... )
Somewhere, in some secret laboratory, someone has invented nitro-glycerin.
Someone, in another secret laboratory, has discovered how to make electricity run through a wire conduit.

...

On the side of the Elvish Alliance:

The Balor (who just won a GREAT victory for the elves. In switching sides, he surprised and slew a large
number of the leaders and generals of the Technomancy.
The Technomancy has put an enormous reward out for The Balor!)
Blood Jester (who is working furiously to keep the dragons on the elven side. He's having some success ...
but the evil dragons are out of control now, and attacking both sides as they please)
Estlor
Victim

On the side of the Technomancy Confederation:

Buzzard
Darwin of Mind
Dr Skull
Elfric
Gez
Icarus
Lannon
Reprisal (He might have preferred to remain neutral, but when his views became known to the elves, they
tried to kill him)
Zouron (secretly neutral)

Neutrals

Enkhidu
Naya
Paperboy

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

(Post 4) Thread One of the 1st IR

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:30 AM

Wait a sec, I ain't on the technomancy side anymore. I'm doing my damndest to kill all the fiends and close
all the gates to the hells. Plus I don't think that druids, no matter how desperate the situation, would use
fiends. F*ck technomancy if they continue their use of demons, I'm lending my skills to the elves. BTW,I
agree with the whole dragons wouldn't switch sides because of guns thing. That's just absurd. And, as I
leave techno lands, I make sure that none of the leaders of the tech leaders live to see another sun rise.
It'd be easy, I just don't tell anyone that I'm switching sides, I just go to 'report my findings after scouting
the enemy' to the leaders of those countries.

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:50 AM

It should be becoming obvious to all sides that:

--- The gnomes aren't doing that much damage with their non-magical weapons, powerful though they are.
--- The industrialized nations aren't doing that much damage with their non-magical weapons, powerful
though they are.
--- The elves and druids, and their allies, aren't doing that much damage with their non-magical weapons,
powerful though they are.

It is the mages who are doing the worst damage.

--- They are the ones combining magic and technology to make technomagic weapons.
--- They are the ones who are (on the Technomancy side) shouting the glories of technology, then secretly
using it to boost their magical powers.
--- They are the ones who are summoning the Outsiders.
--- They are the ones who got the dragons involved in the war, and continue to keep them involved.

While everyone else fights over whether there will or will not be technology in the world, the Red Wizards of
Thay, the Zhentarim, the city of Mulmaster, Mulhorand, Chessenta, Lantan, Halruaa, are quietly taking over.
With everyone in such a weakened state from the war, they will be easy pickings for these powerful mages,
now armed with technomagic.


DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-09-2001 01:11 AM

I'm with Balor up there, I'm still in favor of tech but I'm helping anyone willing to fight agasints the fiends.
Come on people lets stop swabling and stop armagedeon.

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 01:31 AM

My money is on the MindFlayers. They have the time and resources to lurk in their caverns, plotting,
relatively unmolested by the conflict above. They can exert their influence on many of the primary
representatives of the concerned parties, bending the volatile political situation to their will. With their great
intelligence and psionic power, I am inclined to think that they could easily improve and expand upon any
technology produced by surface-dwellers, and their use of minions makes them naturally suited to
mass-production. The introduction of the new technological factors could be enough to give them utter
dominance over the Underdark and unite the disjointed MindFlayer groups behind the primary goal of that
hated race. I would guess that they would bide their time... waiting to strike when the primary warring
factions had worn themselves down a bit. Faced with Techno-Psionic weaponry more advanced than anything
of gnomish design, wielded by hordes of mindlessly, suicidally loyal thralls, directed by the cunning and evil
of the MindFlayers, who are bent on nothing less than world domination... If the war-torn surface had any
chance of survival whatsoever it would only be in uniting their weakened opposing forces to combat the
threat from below...


Regards,

Phasmus T. TapeFiend

"My middle name is not cunning, but it could have been."

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 02:04 AM

In the highest councils of the Elven Kingdoms a grim decision is reached. There is one answer to both of the
current crises, the rampaging Outsiders (especially the fiends), and the technomagic forces.

That which the Humans thought lost with the fall of Nethril, that which most humans are mostly ignorant of,
the greatest folly of any Mage in history. That which the Elves had long since hidden away, believing they
were keeping it safely out of the immature hands of the Young Races. That which they would now modify to
employ as a doomsday weapon.

The spell of Karsus.

Now modified to nullify the weave (hopefully) for a short period of time. It would require a team of Wizards
to cast, all of whom were giving their lives for the cause.

With ALL magic temporarily removed from the Realms, the outsiders would be either killed outright, or at
the least weakened so severely that they would have to limp back to their own planes, taking centuries to
recover.

The magic enhanced technology will fail spectacularly when the enchantments that are compensating for
mechanical flaws and weaknesses are cancelled. Boilers will explode, as will powder stores, gears will grind
and strip, overloaded components and structures will collapse, improperly designed seams will burst. The
true failure of combining technology with magic is that the technology is not developed in harmony with
itself, and WAY to many magical shortcuts are used.

As for magic and the weave, it will recover as it has in the past, but the shattered technology will recover
much more slowly. By which time the forces of magic will be able to eradicate all traces of it.

The Dragon allies will be warned to stay in their caves and aeries on that day (with out getting into the
details). The rest of the creatures of the realms should be no more affected then they were the last time
this happened.

Other threats now loom on the horizon (Phasmus and his Illithids) this must end NOW!

The war is grim, and defeat is not an option.

Blood Jester

[This message has been edited by Blood Jester (edited 04-09-2001).]

zouron
Member
posted 04-09-2001 02:16 AM

the mages talking over the battle is both good and bad for my causes, bad since they do so much more
havoc then the others, good because it gives a testing ground for new spells, but as thing is I wills tart
researching and devices training progam for secretly spying and assassinating the powerful mages my
common man. Using every resource to spread this knowledge to both sides because if wizards fight the war
successfully then surely will they destroy the earth completely, the goal was technology and nature in
harmony, so wizardsneeds to be pulled from the front, letting the worse quality, but mass stand strong
(sorta why the germans lost, they build for the best equipment but was unable to mass produce). of course
also researching procedures against this and keeping them secret. still in secret spread the knowledge of
wizard assassination to both sides through middle men.

also reading myself and my armies to withdraw if tides turn against us. same time negotiating with the
neutral parts to get them to employ technology and nature harmony through magic, in exchange for raw
materials and such, building up a stock pile.

and also encourage the thoughts of peace the hope of cooexisitng ideologies

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:16 AM

If what Blood Jester says is true, then the Old Guard has just shot itself in the foot before the great race.
Although I do not know how long this absence of magic will last, at this point, any one group within the
technocracy, or even affiliated will have the advantage of having the most powerful force on the planet. You
think technology will fall because some patents went into the toilet? I should think not. There will still be
firearms, although they do not have +5 and True Striking ability, they'll kill any mounted knight bearing
down on them.

Elves in the trees, critters in the air? A sniffet of grapeshot will do them well enough to stay out of the affairs
of the new inheritors of the world.

With the removal of magic, it no longer becomes a contest, it merely becomes a matter of time.

((BTW, how long does this last? A mere day? If so, would it not also destroy most if not all magical devices
as well?))

I severely doubt that the absense of the magitech would really have that much of a bad effect on
technocrats. I also doubt that those who wrought the benefits of that technology would sit idly by and let all
of this happen.

Give the people a glimmer of hope, let them touch it, taste it and fall in love with it, then have it taken away
by a race that had little to do with their lives. That's ground for a real War. Are the elves prepared to dish
out something so desperate that they would face utter annihilation?

I think not, for they are far too vain a people.

You think the conflict was bad before, wait and see when Joe, his brother and their children all join their
respective armed forces to take out their frustrations on these creatures who think they can dictate what is
good for them and what is not. If there's one thing I know, it's that humans crave liberty at any cost. And
now, when they've sipped from the cup, the elves decide to take it all away because it threatens their vision
of the world, you just angered a population far larger than your own, and you've made enemies of those
would would otherwise have been complacent.

You've mobilized the entirety of a nation, of a race even, good job, Hirohito.

((Elves try to kill me, I'll be the first to jump atop the soapbox and make sure that every single citizen of
the human/gnomish states know of this travesty.))

If this is a war of power, it is now a war that every single man, woman and child will know to be a just
cause... Technology is already there, how can it be destroyed? Sure, you've destroyed the "clean" magitech,
but in doing so, you've created a Leviathan, and the once visible and potent barrier of tech's destructiveness
to the land will be moot. All the humans will want is the utter destruction of this elven nation far too arrogant
in its old and tired ways.

With the lack of any real magical artillery (like Lightning Wands, Staves of Power, and other things like
Scrolls) all gone, the Old Gaurd are forced to hit the front lines, or at least stand behind their lines of fewer
troops. The Old Guard will be forced to attack, because even though Sir Jester says that technology will
recover more slowly, that is simply not the case. When a single factory can equip an entire battalion (500
men?) in a day, not to mention the existence of the more conventional arms like Xbows and Longbows, as
well as siege weaponry....

If the Old Gaurd do not attack, guess who will have stockpiled enough weapons in a mere week and will be
slash and burning the elves' precious forest? A smart general would force the elves to attack him in an open
field, where the might of the firearm, the cannon filled with grapeshot can be brought to peak efficiency; the
massed warriors ready to deliver the final blow after the first few volleys which will terrify anyone on the
receiving end, especially the elves, who I would believe would not have faced anything quite like a Light
Brigade charge.

You think you won the war? You merely escalated it, and you've removed most of the extra-planar parties,
no more complications: just you, and them.

And the Illithids? Don't the dwarves hate these guys? What are they doing in their underground delves? I
would think that they would be the first line of defense, and the stout ones will not be defeated in one fell
swoop... Seeing how they might be defeated, who would they turn to? The elves? Somehow, I don't think
so... The gnomes and the humans? More than likely.

Just my opinion, but it mostly depends on the length of this absence of magic, still, what I say after that
little question still has merit.

Wouldn't you agree?

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus


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Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:59 AM

You are overlooking some key points.

All of the technos have been arguing that all of the drawbacks of early technology would be eliminated by
adding magic to their mix, making their weapons accurate enough to compete with bows and arrows wielded
by skilled archers. Making them fire fast enough to match the rate of fire of said archers. Making their
factories produce at such prodigious rates. At every turn the technocrats have ignored improving their
machines within the bounds of their new 'science' and have simply said 'Aha! We will use your magic against
you to overcome the limitations of our machines, and thus we will prevail!' Now picture what happens to a
machine that is running several hundred times faster than it is truly capable of running, and it's 'immunity'
to the effects of this speed are instantly removed. Ever see a turbine lose a blade, and then fly apart from
the imbalances? Picture that magnified by a thousand, remember, instant failure. If every machine of any
size or complexity comes apart, violently. How long will that take to dig out from, much less rebuild?

Everyone seems to assume that one hundred and fifty years of development will occur in a couple of weeks.
Without using magic as a crutch, how is this accomplished? The war is not an excuse, we had plenty of those
during our technology growth, and that was with BOTH sides working on developing technology.

(Not to mention, this started out as STEAM POWER being discovered, all these assumptions of other
technologies coming along with this have been allowed to ride unchallenged, but I will have to say that this
requires the excessive use of magic to accomplish.)

You also overlook that we have plenty of humans on our side, it is not an 'Elves vs. Humans' war. It is Elves
vs. a faction of Gnomes, with humans on both sides, war. And how sympathetic do you think the humans
would be who lived in the town leveled by artillery shells meant to destroy the tower of the kindly wizard who
had always been willing to help out the townsfolk, and who was targeted for making the 'mistake' of using
his specialty of Divination to answer some questions of his old elf-mage friend? Or the families of the young
boys and girls killed by friendly fire as the techno-army learned not to fire too close to it's own lines? Or the
ranchers, or farmers whose land is taken so that the rail line can run through?

It won't be as one sided as you seem to assume.

And, if the plan works, the day after the spell is cast, while the tech-army is digging out and re-organizing,
the mages of the Preservationist army will be able to Time Stop, Teleport Without Error in, Meteor Swarm
(X3), and T.W.E. out at zero risk. For starters.

Blood Jester

[This message has been edited by Blood Jester (edited 04-09-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:17 AM

Based on Blood Jester's article on the last page back, and on other articles written since ...

The elves cast their modified version of the 12th level spell, Karsus' Avatar, with the intention of temporarily
nullifying the Weave.

It works.
Unfortunately, it works, and all find out the consequences, for magic striking magic down on a scale of this
magnitude has ... consequences.

It works across Faerun, but it does not stop there. It affects the Hordelands, it affects Zakhara, it affects
Kara-Tur. It leaps across the seas and affects Maztica and all the continents and oceans of Abeir-Toril.
It affects all of Realmspace, from Toril's sun to the Crystal Sphere boundaries. Within that area, across
every world, every rock, every inch of wildspace, magic is nullified.
It is not known, whether the elven spell of nullification killed Mystra.
Or put her into suspended animation.
Or caused her to flee.
It did one of those things, however.

For an entire month, there is NO magic in Realmspace. This has consequences, as follows:

The Gods of Realmspace cannot communicate with their followers, send Avatars to Realmspace, or do
anything at all except watch and wait.
All clerics in Realmspace lose their ability to cast spells, memorize spells, turn undead, and all supernatural
powers.
All mages lose all memorized spells, the ability to cast spells, and all their spellbooks go dormant.
Bards, rangers, paladins, suffer the same losses.
Monks lose all supernatural powers.
Even rogues are reduced to the mundane.

All Outsiders, whoever they are and whatever alignment they are, are instantly banished back to their home
plane, and cannot return, or they are slain outright and their spirits dispelled to their home plane.
If the Outsider in question is native to the Prime Material Plane (like a 20th level monk), it is killed
instantly.
All monsters with spell-like abilities, lose them.
All monsters with special abilities, like a dragon's flight or breath weapon, lose them.
All beings with supernatural powers, lose them.

(Thus, all dragons and Outsiders are banished from the war.)

Beings who depend on magic for their existence (such as dryads) or who are so innately magical they could
not survive without magic, are killed or (at best) simply disappear.

Across Realmspace, magical constructs collapse.
People aboard Spelljammers die, suffocated, as their ships are now stranded in deep space.
Floating buildings and homes held up by magic collapse and fall, killing their occupants.
On the sun of Toril, the portals to the elemental plane of fire collapse. Those creatures caught on the
Realmspace side when this happens are destroyed.

All technomagic fails, and all technomagic items are destroyed. The magical part simply ceases to exist.
The scientific parts of these technomagic items stick around, with the devastating results outlined by Blood
Jester.
Machines explode, firearms detonate, magically rigged factories collapse or blow themselves apart, mines
cave in.
The screams of thousands of people are drowned out by the cachophony of explosions, rumbles, the hissing
of broken pipes, the screeching of metal rupturing, the crackling of huge fires (which there is no hope of
putting out.)

The entire world of Toril is drastically affected in other ways, also, for on Toril magic and life are entwined
(this is said in many FR supplements and guides)
Worldwide, the climate abruptly turns colder.
Except around the Great Glacier, where it abruptly turns warmer, and massive flooding occurs as the Glacier
starts melting at an awesome pace.
In the Calimshan Desert, it is suddenly pouring down rain, for the Desert was maintained magically.
Many living things, from animals to trees, sicken, and of those that sicken, many die.
The more innately magical they were, the more they are affected by the loss in magic, and the sicker they
are, and the higher the mortality rate.
A premature autumn comes across most of Toril, as the tree leaves turn, stricken by the loss of magic,
unable to cope quickly enough with mundanity to avoid going into dormancy, at the least.
Many of the planted fields worldwide suddenly wither, ruined and inedible. It will be a rough winter for a lot of
hungry people.

There are other effects of various sorts:
The Sharn Shield keeping the phaerimm imprisoned under Anauroch is destroyed, freeing them. They find
they have no magic - for now. They are not happy, these freed phaerimm. Not happy at all.
In Anarouch, green things begin sprouting at once. Given time, the desert will cease to exist.
In Evermeet, the climate - which was kept magically benign - turns subarctic immediately. Leuthilspar, which
was warm, is now suddenly buried in snow and freezing temperatures.
Ocean currents begin to alter, for magic was keeping the climate altered in many places.
Halaster fumes as all the Gates in Undermountain close. (and adventurers plunder Undermountain, and
Halaster's magical death traps can't stop them)
It is now safe to approach Elminster's Tower.
It is now actually possible for a thief to break into Blackstaff Tower.
Menzoberranzan is suddenly without magic, and her clerics without Lolth, which means an instant uprising by
the downtrodden males.
The slaves of Thay rise up in revolt, and Thay dissolves into total anarchy, as the slaves capture and kill
hundreds of Red Wizards, and put their homes to the torch.
The halflings of Luiren, next to the dread realm of Dambrath where Loviatar is the state religion, invade that
realm, and occupy a good part of it, which is turned into a halfling security zone.
Var the Golden invades and occupies the (now helpless) magical nation of Halruaa.
Candlekeep is sacked by intrepid explorers and adventurers seeking it's secrets, because all of it's magical
defenses (which were nigh invincible) are down, and it's secret guardians (including the dragon)
incapacitated.
Ironfang Keep is actually breached, maybe for the first time in history. Those breaking in find ... nothing
(the chronomancers inside simply left before the elven spell went off and will return after it's effects
dissipate.)
All undead in Realmspace are destroyed, or at the least disappear for the month.
The Chosen of Mystra retain their power, but they are temporarily unable to use it. They age, can possibly
be killed by normal means, and are otherwise weakened during this time.

- - -

There is no question that the Technomancy suffers MASSIVE losses and disasters during this time.
It is quite possible the Technomancy collapses altogether.

The Elven Alliance is able to use the lapse in magic to smash many Technomancy countries, and destroy
vast amounts of technology and the papers documenting how the technology works and how to build it.
However, their allies, the dragons, are grounded, stripped of their power.
Druids find themselves powerless, the magic of the Earth beyond their reach, their sacred groves reduced to
mundanity.
Swanmays find themselve back in their human form permanently (or they are now permanently mindless
swans.)
The countries allied with the elves suffer all the losses described above.

The mind flayers are NOT affected by the loss of magic.
Onto the surface they come, with their hordes of psionic slaves, and they proceed to destroy nation after
nation, land after land.
The people, traumatized and helpless, stripped of magic, armed only with what technology survived the
elven spell, are no match for the illithid.

Before the end of the month, the illithid have conquered major parts of the surface, and are THE major 3rd
side in the war (as both the Elven Alliance and Technomancy Confederation are forced to fight them.) (It is
up Phasmus who posted on the illithid above which 10 nations will be destroyed ... Phasmus, pick any 10
nations! These nations are gone, their inhabitants enslaved or eaten.)

Then, at the end of that month, Mystra (or is it the new Mystra?) returns.
She is very, very weak when she returns.
She cannot strike at the elves, or anyone else.
It is all she can do to restore the power of clerics and mages, give back magical strength to creatures with
innate magical powers, and try to keep the autumn of the world from turning into a permanent winter.
The effects of the spell thrown by the elves will linger in the world for thousands of years to come (just as
Karsus' Avatar has done.)
Toril is a changed place at the end of that month, changed forever (heh, NOW we know why Toril is suddenly
a 3rd edition world!)

If the above seems too drastic, please read the Post about 5 posts back.
One does not throw Karsus' Avatar, modified to strike down all magic, without consequences!

It is the opinion of this person that the elves have probably ended the gnomish industrial revolution.
They have, in addition, probably brought the dark ages back to Toril - for there is no question that there is
worldwide anarchy.

The question now is, can the illithid be stopped from taking over the surface world?
They are quickly doing so.

Oh, on a side note: Sorry, Naya. Your slave labor factory with the half-orc children is now out of business.
The whole place collapsed when the elves threw the spell.
Since you probably used magic to ward your safe (and to open and close it) where the money is being kept
stored, you may have to dig your treasure out.
This won't be easy, since a lot of very angry half-orc children armed with crude weapons and bludgeoning
devices are trying to kill you.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

zouron
Member
posted 04-09-2001 07:52 AM

it is in truth a sad existance, much have been elimnated, the elves with this knowledge knowledge of 12th
level magic must be found and stopped for good, their spells hidden away in the deeps of the unknown.

immidiately setting in what powers we have left (much be fair since my troops mostly lived on a demiplane)
and search out these chaosing a mass destruction greater then the war did in all. All my resources will be
used to gatherr the spells and eliminate the elves in question (luckily some theories and tactics in none
magical people eliminating mages have been developed earlier).

such an event may never happend again

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:17 AM

I have relatively limited information on the overall geographic and political situation of the realms...
however... I believe I can safely say that the targets of the Illithid will be those nations that are most likely
to regain their power with the return of magic, with secondary precedence given to nations who may have
retained power by virtue having little reliance on magic. Places with high concentrations of mages and
magical creatures will swarm with heavily armed thralls and their masters... The MindFlayers target the
defenseless pockets of the magic-bound with surgical precision, but they do not make mere meals or slaves
of their spell-casting victims... oh no. With a sizable proportion of the magic using population under their
control, the Illithid must only wait for magic to return to the world... at which point they can use the power
and knowledge of their newly acquired arcane thralls to blot out the sun and secure utter dominance over
the world of Toril forever!!!

-insert diabolical laughter here-

[That is, of course, unless someone has the presence of mind to stop them.]

Needless to say, the Illithid of Toril will attempt to provide news of these events to their kin in space and on
other worlds and planes, so that perhaps, eventually, the great Illithid empire may be reborn out of the
ashes of the realms...


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"When in doubt, use duct tape."

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:37 AM

The illithid of Realmspace have lost all of their ships, those aboard having suffocated.
Even illithid ships were powered by magic, and when that magic failed, the ships stopped ... and the illithid
died.

Illithid that are planetbound are another matter.

Countries that are major targets, Phasmus, by your criterion are:

Aglarond (country, home of the Simbul, most powerful human mage)
Calimshan (major center of civilization)
Chessenta (country)
Candlekeep (record-keeping fortress, major center of civilization)
Cormyr (major center of civilization)
Evereska (major center of civilization)
Evermeet (major center of civilization)
Halruaa (the major magical center of civilization)
Luruar (the major center of civilization in the North)
Mulhorand (ancient center of civilization)
Neverwinter (country)
Nimbral (island, major center of magic)
The Phaerimm of Anauroch (very powerful mages, currently incapacitated)
Rasheman (country)
Shadowdale (small country, home of Elminster, Storm, Sylune)
Thay (major center of civilization)
Waterdeep (largest city in Faerun)
Zhentil Keep (fortress city and military alliance)

There are almost certainly others that might fit your criteron.

Amn (country)
The Dalelands (small countries)
The Drow of the Underdark (currently disabled by lack of magic)
Hillsfar (city)
Lantan (island, small country)
Luskan (city)
The Moonshae Isles (islands, small countries)
Myth Drannor (ruined city full of ancient magic, guardians currently disabled by lack of magic)
Sembia (major center of civilization)
Tethyr (country)
Turmish (country)
Vast Dale (country)
Westgate (city)


What are your targets, Phasmus? At the moment, the illithid have the upper hand.

The first 3 targets you pick, are considered destroyed or occupied.
The next 3 targets you pick, are considered devastated.
The next 4 after that, are considered beset and fighting for their lives.

They fought, they weakened themselves, the elves wrecked magic, and now they are vulnerable.

(chuckle) Only fair to Phasmus, here. The illithid were untouched when the elves ended all magic for that
month.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:07 PM

Isn´t Psionics magic in 3e

Orco42
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:13 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:
The elves cast their modified version of the 12th level spell, Karsus' Avatar, with the
intention of temporarily nullifying the Weave.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]


How could it work? Mystra has banned all spells above 10th level since the fall of Nethril?

Estlor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:34 PM

After spending the Month of Dread reflecting peacefully in his forest temple, I emerge and make several
pilgimages.

First I travel to the Steelie court and speak with King Oberon and Queen Titania about the war and tell them
my plans to seek some sort of peaceful resolution, as neither side expected things to go this route.

Once I have successfully gained the support of the Fair Folk (sprites, pixies, nixies, grigs, sidhe, pookas,
brownies, and leprechauns) I make my pilgrimage to the cavern of the eldest dragon, informing our allies of
the new developments. I beseech their aid to attack and destroy the illithid threat and attempt some sort of
a cease-fire with the now ruined technomancer order so as to discuss things further with them.

Then, with the aid of the fairies and the dragons I speak with the peaceful creatures of the sea, begging
that they use their powers over the waters to foil the illithids long enough for the Alliance to meet with the
Technomancer Imperitive.

Once I have assured that the fairies, dragons, and sea folk are agreed to assist me, I declair open war on
all illithids, stating nothing should be held back in the war up to and excluding causing harm to nature that
our druid allies could not repair.

THEN, conveniently being a bard and having a high Charisma, I will propose the other leaders of the Alliance
request a diplomatic meeting with the Imperitive in order to attempt to find a point of nature/technology
coexistance.

Ah, but to the illithids I have only one thing to say...

CRY HAVOK! AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR!

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:36 PM

Well, I'd say this is going to be the next campaign setting this board makes after we finish Daemonforge.
So damn cool.

My Illithid persona is working on creating a usable psionic feat that will allow the user to dampen light in a
small radius around them and allow Illithids to exist more happily on the surface world. He is also
experimenting with surface-worlder psychology.

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:41 PM

Elven High Magic is the equivalent of spells of levels 10, 11, and 12, to answer a question above.

There is a serious problem with your tactic, Estlor.
It is called the Elven Imperial Navy of Wildspace.

After the Month of Dread ends (and Phasmus has picked his targets), this Fleet appears in the skies over
Toril.

The Elven Imperial Navy of Spelljammers was forewarned of the spell.
Thus, they went into dockage before it happened.
Their forces did not suffocate, but waited the month out in drydock.

Now, their fleet - which PRIOR to the Month of Dread was the greatest in the Spheres, now attacks Toril in it's
full fury.

Please remember that the elves are attacking in total war now, no holds barred.
After the little tactic pulled by Blood Jester, they would have to be.
They intend some serious annihiliation here.

Thus I say to Blood Jester:

Pick from the list of targets above.
They can be targets already occupied by the illithids (if Phasmus responds in time)
The first FIVE targets you choose are considered destroyed.
The next five are considered devastated.
The next five are considered beset.

Then, and only then, can Estlor put his plan into motion. A good plan, too. We will see if it works ...

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 01:58 PM

As the standing representative of the hoards of orcs, goblins, kobolds, and other humanoid races that
*rarely* rely on magic and instead rely on cunning and brute strength, I would like to point out that our
sheer numbers (we breed, you know) must have *some* positive effect on the defense of the
Technomancy. An elf without magic is pretty much a weak orc. And elves, feeling "magic in their bones like
perhaps no other race" are probably not feeling overly well right now anyway.

As far as the Illithids are concerned -- we Underdark dwellers

1) Don't like them, and
2) Know how to collapse large, large sections of caves. 10 kobolds with pickaxes can collapse cave entrances
faster than an Illithid with 3 or 4 Disentegrate Psi-Powers a day can move through them.

And given the proximity to which we live to the surface (as opposed to the Illithids, who generally live deeper
into the Underdark) we know where the entrances/exits to the Underdark are.

And we've got a lot of kobolds. Oh, my do we have a lot of kobolds!!!

So while I'm sure the Illithids have been nasty and caused a lot of damage . . . I think you're forgetting
precisely what some recent allies of the Technomancy can do. Taking away Magic from the entire world
doesn't hurt us *nearly* as much as it does the elves and humans and dragons.

Buhahaha!

[Edit -- remember we have those "Blue" goblins, too. So we've got a little psionic help on our *own* side, if
need be.]

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-09-2001).]

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:02 PM

But we can teleport. And you can't. So, you can't really stop the Illithids, just slow us down. Your blue goblins
might be a minor hindrance, but they would fall so quickly as to be inconsequential. We are a lot nastier
then you might believe, and we have a lot of slaves for cannon fodder in our cities.

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:06 PM

Sure, you can teleport. Big whup.

That doesn't mean you can teleport tens of thousands of slaves to the surface, though. For that, you'll need
actual PASSAGES, bucky boy. You know, like the one that just fell on your head.

Chalk another one up for Kobold trap-making.



Estlor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:13 PM

For once I'm thankful for Kobolds

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:20 PM

Then we'll just have to teleport to your homes and burn you all to ashes then, won't we?

See you in hell....

(Illithids launch campaign of extermination against the subterranean monstrous humanoids.)

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:32 PM

Ah, excellent... Thank you for the data.

The MindFlayers gazed at the surface world which had been opened up to them... at long last their patience
had been rewarded. The thralls would be put in their place once and for all.

The first move of the Illithid upon the cessation of magic was to eliminate the primary threats found in their
home territory. The Drow of the Underdark, along with multiple less well established population, were
besieged, slaughtered, consumed and enslaved. Their most powerful magic users were maintained for
more... specialized... applications. Now the undisputed masters of the subterranean domain, even should
their campaigns on the surface fail, any attempt at retribution against the Illithid by the thrall-races would
be mere folly.

Next, knowing full well the power of the now free Phaerimm, the MindFlayers set their sights on Anauroch.
The essentially defenseless magical abominations were easy prey... and are now held captive in the most
secure regions of the MindFlayer's Underdark domain. When the magic returns, the full power of the
Phaerimm will be wielded by Illithid.

In keeping with their goal of obtaining arcane power to enact and enforce their new world order, the forces of
the Illithid stormed Halruaa, claiming artifact and sage alike for use in their grim plot.

Luruar, WaterDeep and Thay were selected for simple devastation. There would be ample time to extract the
riches, knowledge and power of these targets from their gutted shells after the conflict was over.

Finally, Hungry for the power stored in Myth Dranor, the MindFlayers begin the process of advancing on the
ancient city. CandleKeep was also laid siege, along with Nimbral.


Many heroes captured and by the MindFlayers are slated for Ceremorphisis. The Illithid population booms,
along with their capacity for enslaving the lesser humanoids who dare to oppose them. The population
centers not under direct attack are infiltrated by small parties of MindFlayer specialists, along with
doppelganger assistants when possible. Discord is sewn amongst the unsuspecting surface dwellers... who
are temporarily powerless to magically detect the source of their misfortune.
Experimentation with Ceremorphisis on creatures normally unfit to host tadpoles have a drastically increased
success rate due to the lack of magical inhibitors. New, nightmarish, strains of MindFlayer created by the
transformation of powerful creatures stalk the land the sea and the air. There are even rumors of successful
Ceremorphisis procedures being performed on wyrmlings. The sages pray that the tomes that claim such
things are impossible are correct.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"Sentience is a privilege, not a right."

buzzard
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:19 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Blood Jester:
You are overlooking some key points.

All of the technos have been arguing that all of the drawbacks of early technology would be
eliminated by adding magic to their mix, making their weapons accurate enough to compete
with bows and arrows wielded by skilled archers. Making them fire fast enough to match the
rate of fire of said archers. Making their factories produce at such prodigious rates. At every
turn the technocrats have ignored improving their machines within the bounds of their new
'science' and have simply said 'Aha! We will use your magic against you to overcome the
limitations of our machines, and thus we will prevail!' Now picture what happens to a machine
that is running several hundred times faster than it is truly capable of running, and it's
'immunity' to the effects of this speed are instantly removed. Ever see a turbine lose a
blade, and then fly apart from the imbalances? Picture that magnified by a thousand,
remember, instant failure. If every machine of any size or complexity comes apart,
violently. How long will that take to dig out from, much less rebuild?

Everyone seems to assume that one hundred and fifty years of development will occur in a
couple of weeks. Without using magic as a crutch, how is this accomplished? The war is not an
excuse, we had plenty of those during our technology growth, and that was with BOTH sides
working on developing technology.

(Not to mention, this started out as STEAM POWER being discovered, all these assumptions
of other technologies coming along with this have been allowed to ride unchallenged, but I
will have to say that this requires the excessive use of magic to accomplish.)


Blood Jester

[This message has been edited by Blood Jester (edited 04-09-2001).]


I've made no claims that magic was necessary for technological prograss. My arguments are based on the
given premise that:
Technology is advanced enough for steam power and railroads.

This implies a good deal you know. It doesn't just imply that you know that steam expands and can drive
an engine. It implies that you have the machining abilities to make such an engine. It also implies that you
are going to make machine tools capable of making more than one of those engines. (and rails, etc) That
was one of the most immediate consequences of the industrial revolution. The mechanization of machine
tools is crucial to everything. It enables rifles to be mass produced, rather than hand crafted. Also the
general level of mechanical sophistication is going to be pretty high. A railroad is not a simple thing.

Also if we're talking railroads, a certain amount of metallurgy must have been accomplished. This means
higher quality steel, or you could not make steel rails (you can't roll cast iron into the shape). Once you
have this better steel, you can make better and cheaper cannons. (Sweden was a great power for a while
based on tin deposits which allowed them to make bronze cannons, since the steel technology in the era
was so poor- this was well before railroads). I've yet to see what a wizzard is going to do in the face of a
cannon shot.
If I can make really good steel, I can make really good breastplates which will likely stop arrows (but not
bullets).

Also, whoever thinks that civil war era rifles were worse than bows, has a lot of convicing to do to make me
buy it. I will certainly grant that early firearms were inferior, but by the civil war muzzle loading weapons had
reached their pinnacle. They shot 50 caliber conical bullets at substancial velocities to effective ranges of
700 yards or so. No such bow exists. Rifles are also easier to use. Ammo is easier to make, and more lethal
(soft lead bullets of the era would remove limbs, at best- for the target, or simply kill you).

Also Eneda just jumped the gun and implied that nitroglycerin was invented. This implies smokeless powder,
and thus the possibility of cased ammunition and repeating breachloading rifles. Once those hit the scene,
there is not a chance that bows are comparable. This will also increase effective range and lethality.

As for what my character would be doing the whole time, is learning the technology, and improving it. You
don't need a wizzard to do technology (well actually my last character in Faerun was a custom class called a
Tinker, who was sort of a medieval engineer- he never liked magic much anyway- too illogical). Though the
influx of fiends would have him concentrating on wiping them out. A nice 8 gauge shotgun with either silver
or cold iron shot would likely do wonders. Also I'd make sure I'd have a priest of Gond on hand to cast
magic weapon where necessary. For a reach out and touch someone excersize I'd make the old heavy
barrelled Sharps rifle- and become the first sharpshooter. That will outrange any spell.

Buzzard


Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:35 PM

Riot Gear -- teleport into our homes? Wouldn't that require you having knowledge of exactly where our
homes ARE?

And I think that kobolds/goblins/orcs/gnolls/bugbears/hobgoblins probably outnumber Illithids at LEAST 100
to 1. Perhaps 1000 to 1. Remember, we breed. Meaning there's a whoooole lot of lairs.

So give us your best shot. It isn't as though the humanoids are lining up in front of the illithids to be taken
down by their mind blasts. We don't need to attack you -- just stop your minions from getting to the surface
by closing off said passages. You'll get through eventually, but it'll be VERY tough to get enough people
through in ONE MONTH to do that much damage.

We Are The Underdark.

And we're not like the weak drow, who are far too dependent on their magic to survive. We've had to deal
with Drow and Illithids from below, and max-minning elves and humans from above for millenia. And we're
STILL HERE. During none of that time did we have powerful magics at our disposal. You're not just walking
through us, or you would have done it a long time ago.

So, Phasmus, let's keep our plans to ourselves for now . . . I hope Edena announces an 'errata' or two to
take into account her forgetfulness. (As opposed to coming up with some creative but highly doubtful
explanation why hoards of humanoids who never relied on magic for survival in the Underdark would
somehow fall so easily NOW.)

Please?

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-09-2001).]

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:41 PM

Why, Mr. Forrester, we haven't forgotten you. Far from it. In addition to providing valuable slave labor, your
ineffectual humanoid throngs are delicious and nutritious... You are a very important commodity for us.
Furthermore, inasmuch as you are not enslaved outright, you provide a convenient buffer between our forces
and the surface.

The question we now put to you is, if your misdirected forces are so capable, why do they choose to act now,
at the height of the power of the Illithid on Toril? The technology we have recently obtained, and vastly
improved upon, makes moving earth and rock a fairly simple matter. We have been preying on you as long
as your history records... and now you think enough has changed that you can do something about it?

Your minds call to us... You are rightfully OURS to take! You honestly think we would allow you to even
approach areas where you could cause the damage you speak of? That you and your thick-skulled
humanoids could outthink the greatest minds this pitiful ball of rock has ever harbored?! That you could
even begin to seal off the underdark enough to inconvenience our plans? An exercise in futility, that...

No, Mr. Forrester, you will fall before us like all the rest. We suggest, however, that if you bow to us now,
without necessitating our guiding influence, we will consider granting you a position of relatively comfortable
servitude for the rest of your days... As opposed to the variety of horrors we will inflict on you otherwise.


Regards,

Phasmus

Speaker-To-Thralls
Representative of the Illithid
Horde-Master 1st Class

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:44 PM

WTF?! All of you 'psionic devourers invade' people are idiots. The illithids are not a numerous race, you will
recall. I think, that at most, there will be 30,000 illithids on Toril. Plus, as forrester said, they'd have to plow
through subterranean goblinoids,orcs, svirfnebli, drow(adamantite, enchanted or not,still is the hardest
metal), and dwarves. There is no way they could get past everyone in just a month. PLUS get past every
race in-between.PLUS conquer all those countries. Edena,Phasmus, whoever the hell the people who give the
war updates are, don't post an update after every single post. That's just idiotic. And quit favoring technos,
dammit. Every time they post something, you immediately don't bother with how ridiculous it might be, you
just write it in. If that's the rules around here, anything goes, then put in forrester's logic and that I killed all
of the techno leaders just before I switched sides, because I did. That should have put them in a state of
total anarchy.
------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

[This message has been edited by TheBalor (edited 04-09-2001).]

[This message has been edited by TheBalor (edited 04-09-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:14 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Phasmus:
Why, Mr. Forrester, we haven't forgotten you. Far from it. In addition to providing valuable
slave labor, your ineffectual humanoid throngs are delicious and nutritious... You are a very
important commodity for us. Furthermore, inasmuch as you are not enslaved outright, you
provide a convenient buffer between our forces and the surface.

The question we now put to you is, if your misdirected forces are so capable, why do they
choose to act now, at the height of the power of the Illithid on Toril? The technology we have
recently obtained, and vastly improved upon, makes moving earth and rock a fairly simple
matter. We have been preying on you as long as your history records... and now you think
enough has changed that you can do something about it?

Your minds call to us... You are rightfully OURS to take! You honestly think we would allow
you to even approach areas where you could cause the damage you speak of? That you and
your thick-skulled humanoids could outthink the greatest minds this pitiful ball of rock has
ever harbored?! That you could even begin to seal off the underdark enough to
inconvenience our plans? An exercise in futility, that...

No, Mr. Forrester, you will fall before us like all the rest. We suggest, however, that if you
bow to us now, without necessitating our guiding influence, we will consider granting you a
position of relatively comfortable servitude for the rest of your days... As opposed to the
variety of horrors we will inflict on you otherwise.


Regards,

Phasmus

Speaker-To-Thralls
Representative of the Illithid
Horde-Master 1st Class


You know, Tentacle-boy, you sound a lot like an elf. Are you sure there's no elven heritage hiding in those
slimy little tentacles of yours?

Here's the situation, as I understand it.

You are at point A, deep in the Underdark.
We are at point B, in the Upper Underdark/near the surface, and point C, the Surface.

To get to the surface, you need to pass US. Not the other way around, Mr. 20+ Intelligence.

In other words, we aren't "approaching" the areas we need to affect. We're already THERE. You're the ones
approaching US, squid-face.

And it's really quite exciting that you've just learned how to move rock and earth. We've been doing it for
thousands of years.

Note that it's a helluva lot easier to collapse a tunnel than it is to dig a new one. As you should know, Big
Brain.

Sure, you might make some progress here or there. Get a few people through, here or there. But in a
month? Get tens of thousands of thralls to the surface?

Been sniffing glue again?

But don't worry. We've got enough humanoids to kill all of the elves AND stop your puny efforts. So you can
count on a good amount of death and destruction on the surface.

But it'll be humanoids that are in charge, not you, squid-head.

Forrester
No Title Required

PS Edena -- realistically, the Technomancy machines aren't all going to just EXPLODE! You make 1/2 of a
machine stop working, it generally doesn't explode . . . the whole machine stops working.

But let me know . . . if the Technomancy really is gone so soon, then I guess the humanoid hordes will work
on taking over the entire surface, as long as this petty Squid menace can be taken care of. Elves die first,
second, and third. We'll work from there. And get some kobolds to start tinkering with those machines . . .

Oh -- if any of those artifact-ridden places had HUMANOIDS working as lackeys (as they usually do!), count
on my people being able to loot the places far, FAR more quickly than the dumb humans or elves or illithids
can. Heh heh heh.

Idiot elves. The only thing keeping us from taking control was all of that damn magic. We're going to come
out of this even better than the Illithids.

Oh -- and Edena -- you might want to consider whether there are any big ole Elven Ships left after the elves
have been overrun by tens of thousands of pissed off humanoids. (That's assuming we can do both that
and fight off of the Illithids, of course. Which we can, because there's SO damn many of us.)

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-09-2001).]

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:27 PM

You are foolish.

We are just short of omniscient, we Illithid, Flayers of the Mind, and we are no weak warriors. Finding the
weakest points in your defenses, and leaping there directly, is not hard.

Nor do you keep in mind are ability to shift harmonic vibration (Plane Shift) at will. You do not merely face
the Illithid of Faerun, but of the entire Prime Material and Outer Planes. We are legion.

As for defeating us - A single Mind Flayer can rip your petty minds to shreds with ease constantly (Mind Blast
EVERY ROUND) as well as transform enemies to thrall effortlessly (Charm Person EVERY ROUND) and float
out of the reach of your mindless hordes (Levitate at will.) 10 mind flayers could wade through thousands
upon thousands of your underselves, and even attempting to crush us under thousands of tons of rock
would be futile, as we vanish to the Ether before they strike.

From a metagaming perspective, I can't imagine ANY AMOUNT, even MILLIONS, of monstrous humanoids
surviving a concerted assault of even as few as 10 Mind Flayers. High level Psion Mind Flayers make the
whole exercise, frankly, silly.

So sorry, you're screwed. Really flaunting that 8 intelligence, aren't you?

I wonder what Kobold white matter tastes like...

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

(Post 5) Thread One of the 1st IR

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:38 PM

Wow, a race even cockier than elves. Will wonders never cease.

10 Mind Flayers against a million Humanoids? You'd be crushed. I mean, from above, as you walked into a
cave and it fell on your head before you could react.

Or did your Illithid Rogues (hah!) detect them?

Sorry . . your mighty One Charm Person/round (ooh, you charmed a kobold! Wow, he'll help against the
other fifty beating the crap out of you!) isn't going to cut it. The Mind Blast might, but it's a Cone. And that
assumes we're all standing in a column in front of you. Which we aren't, because we're letting the traps do
our crushing.

I don't see that happening, squid-face. Our numbers and our traps will crush you. You lazy bastards are
going to have to be on the front lines to even have the slightest chance to succeed, and that's just not a
role you're used to.

Bye bye. We KNOW what Squid-faces taste like, you know. Calamari.

And we *like* calamari.

Forrester
No Title Required

PS Use Levitate to float out of the way?
Now who has the "8" intelligence? (Our race average is "10", by the way, so pfffthththt.)

Yours is apparently actually quite lower.
Levitate is going to help HOW when the ceiling height is, oh, 5'. Or even 10' or 15' or 50'? We have
crossbows, numbnuts. Thanks for making it so we can all shoot you at once.

Only the idiot Drow like those big-ass caverns with quarter-mile high ceilings. Just goes to show your
ignorance. Again.

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-09-2001).]

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:47 PM

Buzzard, thank you, you took the words right out of my mouth. The Movement is indebted to you.

In any event, I was under the impression that this struggle was expressed not in weeks, but in *years.* I
would not believe that the elves would resort to stripping the plane of magic in a few mere weeks... Here's
some assumptions I've been using so far:

1) In order for there to actually *be* an industrial revolution, the following must have occured before:

- A new focus on individualism and the rights of said individual. Think Protestant Reformation. Which gives
way to the proliferation of Classical Liberal thought (the ideology of capitalism). Who's gonna buy into this
the most out of all the races? The humans, and then the gnomes, and then the halflings. The elves are
inward looking, and the dwarves are as backward as Tzarist Russia before the Great War. I'll come back to
this point later.

- The Industrial Revolution would only occur if the above point happened, and the Enlightenment
(Renaissance) occured before it all... Technology didn't get under way until The Enlightenment, because it
fostered the Scientism and Secularist movements within society as a whole.

2) As a result of point one, some of the human monarchies would have to have fallen and in their place
would grow some sort of populist regime, be it socialist, liberal or what-have-you. This is where my "liberty"
standpoint comes from... any ruler standing in its way will meet the guillotine sooner or later.

I believe that those aligned with the elves would be of that aristocratic class of humans, who are destined to
lose. Hobbes, Locke et al are correct in saying that power comes from the people, despite magic and
religion. If a population wishes to become free, they will, sooner or later. While the coffers of these
aristocrats dwindles as they pay their mercenary armies; those funding the liberty/technocracy movement,
the merchant-come-capitalist class, will have ample currency to outbuild, outwage, outwork and outfight the
aristocrats.

If we're working with a reasonable timeframe, like years or even a decade, then the aristocracy allied with
the elves would not be the powerhouse Sir Jester believes.

It would NOT be a 50/50 split on the humanity. There are far too many peasants seeking true liberty and
equality, and they cannot be denied. Will it be bloody? Yes. Will it be painful? Yes. Is it necessary? Yes.

While this Gnomish Combine fights the first few rounds, guess who will be their second wave? The countries
and nations who have just freed themselves. These states will not only be ready to fight for their lifestyles,
they will be whole-heartedly nationalistic and full of patriotism. It would be like in the First World War, the
Triple Alliance would have been fighting the Russians, French and British for so long that they would not
have the fighting spirits that the Americans would have had.

So, there I conclude, until I think of more,

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:49 PM

Phasmus, you are an idiot. Do you even KNOW how many goblinoids/orcs there are in the underdark?
mindflayers are powerful, I grant you that, but you would have to punch through BILLIONS of goblins,orcs,
dwarves, drow, all in less than a month. PLUS they can just seal up the tunnels(if the goblinoids can't, then
the dwarves or svirfnebli will) I really doubt that you could disintegrate the tens of thousands of miles that is
the underdark IN A MONTH, plus conquer all that land. Edena, or whoever the updater is, have the illithid
conquests stricken from the record.

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 07:00 PM

In response to reprisal: Jesus, man. You make it sound like all the lords of the realm are evil and
oppresive. And you think the average person would not align themselves with druids and elves? Think again,
my friend, the farmers owe quite alot to the druids, and they would not like gigantic machines ripping up
their forests and homelands. You also apparently have never heard of the peasant revolt where, for a while,
they did win, but then the nobles retaliated, and they were easily crushed(many ended like that) and in a
country like thay, or halruaa, where magic is the most common thing in the world, I don't think that peasant
revolts would work, supposing they even happened. Realize that most peasants LIKE their lives. It's simple,
and enjoyable(much better living conditions, I might add, than in olde Europe) and those who are
unsatisfied? Why thats us, my friend. The adventurers.

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-09-2001 07:37 PM

Uh, if you read my post again, I'm assuming that everything is set up for an actual Industrial Revolution.
You say that farmers would rather align themselves with the elves and druids? I disagree, when a farmer
realizes he can pull down more gold using even the cotton gin and other early advancements, guess what
will take precedence?

A farmer would have more to gain for himself, his family and his progeny when he uses technological
devices. For they are more concerned with their own survival and well-being that anything else, when they
see an opportunity to gain for themselves, guess what's gonna happen? The druids might make it possible
to stop plant disease and what-not from happening, but can they make it so the farmer can do the work in
half the time? They could, but they'd have to live on the farm and pretty much do only that... A machine, be
it a thresher, a cotton gin, or what-have-you, will be there as long as the farmer uses it. It's quite obvious
that the farmers of the land would choose machinery over magic, for magic is erratic, and there aren't
enough Druids to go around to be their personal farm-spellslinger.

While Lords of the Realm might not be evil, they are still oppressive. No matter how well a Lord treats his
subjects, they are still subjects. With no power whatsoever. Shackles of gold are still shackles, you know
what I mean?

What do you say about the other half of my post where I state that the only reason an IR would occur was if
there was a Renaissance, a new focus on individualism (therefore, not the collectivism of your feudal
conservatism), and the proliferation of capitalist ideals. I concede the fact that without either of these
points, an IR is destined to be put down. But if the struggle is to continue (and I hope it does, this is one of
the most intriguing threads on any D&D board I've had the privilege to be a part of) these things must
happen.

Still, I think your throwing the idea of a peasant revolution aside quite arbitrarily. Still yet, who's to say that
all magicians would be on the side of the aristocracy? How much could a mage-guild make in a capitalist
system?

Once again, I'm off, this is quite enjoyable,

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

[This message has been edited by Reprisal (edited 04-09-2001).]

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 07:51 PM


quote:

Originally posted by TheBalor:
Phasmus, you are an idiot. Do you even KNOW how many goblinoids/orcs there are in the
underdark? mindflayers are powerful, I grant you that, but you would have to punch through
BILLIONS of goblins,orcs, dwarves, drow, all in less than a month. PLUS they can just seal up
the tunnels(if the goblinoids can't, then the dwarves or svirfnebli will) I really doubt that you
could disintegrate the tens of thousands of miles that is the underdark IN A MONTH, plus
conquer all that land. Edena, or whoever the updater is, have the illithid conquests stricken
from the record.



-tosses away a red-stained napkin-

It seems, Mr. Forrester, that I had some elven heritage ON my tentacles.


Now, Mr. Balor...

I state my actions only according to the data I have on hand... which is found in this thread, the 3e core
rulebooks and the 2e Illithid book.

What do the goblinoids & co. see? At best, more MindFlayer activity than usual. Do they regularly oppose the
activities of the MindFlayers to any such degree? Not so far as I am aware. Are all the different
humanoid/goblinoid groups capable of working with each other on a global scale to shut down the
underdark? With little or no apparent motive? Incurring the wrath of the MindFlayers? When the Illithid are
likely causing them even less grief than usual? When the surface world is broken and ripe for them to
plunder? To what end, exactly? Such an orderly, concerted effort by groups which I had been led to
understand weren't on the best of terms even under ideal circumstances seems rather unlikely. Of course,
not having access to data on FR, I may be unaware of some sort of secret global goblinoid network... and
the reason why such an institution has never been used to any effect before.

The MindFlayers have the element of surprise. By the time anyone discovered their activities it would be too
late to prevent their forces from reaching the surface. Even assuming that is not the case, the dwarves and
gnomes [who, I would guess, do not have a monopoly on the caverns leading to the deeper underdark.]
would already be in crisis... granted perhaps not as severe as some other communities. It would be a simple
mater to subtly influence their decision-making bodies and have them give minimum priority to the Illithid
activities. The MindFlayers will avoid direct combat when they can... instead relying on subterfuge as much
as possible.

Your claims against my activities are insufficient.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"When in doubt, use duct tape."

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-09-2001 08:18 PM

And again, you can keep a Mind Flayer from reaching anywhere. We can shift in to the ether and reappear in
the middle of your homes, completely bypassing your traps. If four of us appear back to back, we can nail
everything within 60 feet instantly. Your traps are irrelevant.

I admit, however, that the levitation was foolish. So we won't do that.

But tell me - How fast do you think ten illithids could charm 50 stunned Kobolds if we kept stunning them
again? We'd have all the fodder we'd need....

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

buzzard
Member
posted 04-09-2001 08:26 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Phasmus:

Your claims against my activities are insufficient.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.



Well I'n rather curious as to how the Illithids, buried deep underground will know when to meander up to the
surface. OK the magic cuts off. Gee, time to move on up. Do you think a month is a long time for a
logistical undertaking of this magnitude? I certainly don't think the Illithids will be teleporting to the surface
en masse- since they've never been there that would be suicidal.

They could organize a mass migration, but that would be obvious to every other denizen in the Underdark,
then you have to deal with the pesky humanoids. If the Illithids had even a portion of the capabilities you
claim, they'd already own Faerun, having easily conquered the Underdark.

Also I re-iterate the objections to a lack of magic trashing all the technology. The descriptions I had heard
of magic/tech synergy consisted of things like heat sources and pollution control devices, not
containment/pressure vessels. If these went bye bye, you just stoke up the fire with some coal, and you're
back to the races.

"Oh well the smokestack is belching again. No big deal, the druids didn't like us anyway".

If the Elves were dumb enough to destroy magic in the face of technological advance, then you could almost
forget them since one way or another they'll kill themselves through sheer stupidity.

Buzzard

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 08:39 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Phasmus:
-tosses away a red-stained napkin-

It seems, Mr. Forrester, that I had some elven heritage ON my tentacles.


Now, Mr. Balor...

I state my actions only according to the data I have on hand... which is found in this thread,
the 3e core rulebooks and the 2e Illithid book.

What do the goblinoids & co. see? At best, more MindFlayer activity than usual. Do they
regularly oppose the activities of the MindFlayers to any such degree? Not so far as I am
aware. Are all the different humanoid/goblinoid groups capable of working with each other
on a global scale to shut down the underdark? With little or no apparent motive? Incurring
the wrath of the MindFlayers? When the Illithid are likely causing them even less grief than
usual? When the surface world is broken and ripe for them to plunder? To what end, exactly?
Such an orderly, concerted effort by groups which I had been led to understand weren't on
the best of terms even under ideal circumstances seems rather unlikely. Of course, not
having access to data on FR, I may be unaware of some sort of secret global goblinoid
network... and the reason why such an institution has never been used to any effect before.

The MindFlayers have the element of surprise. By the time anyone discovered their activities
it would be too late to prevent their forces from reaching the surface. Even assuming that is
not the case, the dwarves and gnomes [who, I would guess, do not have a monopoly on the
caverns leading to the deeper underdark.] would already be in crisis... granted perhaps not
as severe as some other communities. It would be a simple mater to subtly influence their
decision-making bodies and have them give minimum priority to the Illithid activities. The
MindFlayers will avoid direct combat when they can... instead relying on subterfuge as much
as possible.

Your claims against my activities are insufficient.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"When in doubt, use duct tape."


The elf, it is tasty. On that we have agreement.

We might even be able to come to more agreements, if you weren't a group of megalomaniacal totalitarian
slave drivers.

Trust me -- if we spot a group of illithids on their way up to the surface, we're going to collapse tunnels, and
we're going to do in quickly. It isn't as if the Technomancy hasn't filled us in on your little motives. Heck,
even if they hadn't, it's not like we don't know you like enslaving/eating us. "A little more illithid activity" is
not a trivial thing when we live friggin' next door to you.

And it's not as if Illithids generally cooperate with each other very readily, squid-face. If you're doing it, we
get to do it as well.

And trust me -- there are PLENTY of us. We can kill elves and stop you at the same time. It's that 1000-to-1
outnumbering thing (with regard to your paltry forces, not with regard to the elves, of course. We merely
outnumber them 10-to-1 or 20-to-1.)

And Riot Gear -- you still haven't explained to me precisely how you are going to FIND our lairs, and know
where to materialize/teleport in. The Underdark is a 3-D kind of place. How quickly are your paltry forces
going to search a few billion cubic MILES of rock and earth? And the Rambo-esque tactics you describe
typically aren't used by the cowardly squid-heads, but I'll let that go given the current situation we're playing
with.

You're just not in a good position to take advantage of the situation within a mere month. So either Edena's
going to have to change it's duration, or you're going to have to take over the surface some other time.

We humanoids, on the other hand, can wreak havok and destruction on the foolish elves within a month,
easy. EASY.

Forrester
No Title Required

Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-09-2001 08:41 PM

You know, maybe we should start this over, as a game...

We could take turns, each of us representing a specific organization. Edena could serve as a DM, of sorts.
Every 'Round' or day, we would all explain what our group was doing. If a new guy wanted to play, he could
only represent a single person, but he could eventually become an organization.
At the end of each day, Edena decides what has happened and how long that round lasted. For example,
depending on how disrupting the actions we undertook were, the next round could take place from 5 days to
5 decades later.
In addition, she could tell us whether or not our actions were successful.

That said, the last poster has a hell of a point.... We might scry and see what was going on. And we'd
certainly do SOMETHING with the Phaerimm.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 08:58 PM

War Update #4

The war has expanded into multiple sides:

The Faerie Folk (led by Estlor - they are trying to arrange another peace conference, but they are fighting
fiercely against the illithid)
The Illithid (led by Phasmus, they have taken and destroyed Waterdeep, enslaved the phaerimm, and
destroyed a number of major drow cities - and there are a LOT more illithid on Toril than anyone realized -
there are hundreds of thousands of them!!)
The Elves (led by Blood Jester, they are fighting a total war, with no quarter given and no quarter asked.
They are out to win at all costs. The Elven Imperial Navy of Wildspace (Spelljammer) has come in it's full
strength to support them)
The Humanoids (led by Forrester, there are millions of these guys, and they are hell bent for glory, guts,
and battle. Although they form the staple army of the Technomancy, they are not under it's control)
The Technomancy Alliance (led by several people, this coalition of industrializing countries is coming back
from the brink of defeat, thanks to the humanoid hordes, and with new technomagic and their old magic
back are fighting hard)

- - -

The ferocity of the Posts I have been reading, above, would tend to indicate that:

Everyone is ganging up on the illithid. The illithid are losing ground, because they cannot stand against the
combined strength of everyone else, once the magic returns.
However, again, there are FAR more illithid than anyone thought - a secret of the illithid the world is now
learning to it's cost. There are hundreds of thousands of these fell beings, and they have an agenda - and
you and suppertime are both on it.

For some reason, nobody is concentrating on the elves, who have caused serious and irrepairable harm to
the entire world with their magic.
This means the elves are now making rapid strides towards total victory (I still need those 5 targets + 5
targets + 5 targets, Blood Jester.)
Indeed, if they are not opposed, and opposed soon, Toril will once more see the Supremacy of the Elves, as
it did for 10,000 years prior to the Crown Wars.

Estlor is the voice of reason here, bringing the Seelie Court into the situation, and the Faerie are flocking to
his banner (the druids are no longer a power, having been decimated in the war, then wiped out during the
Month of Terror)
Also, a number of wise old good aligned and neutrally aligned dragons, and a number of neutral nations
(including devastated Luruar) are going over to his side.
Estlor now leads a formidable host, rapidly becoming equal in strength to the others.

The Technomancy has made a surprising recovery.
This is partially because the first fury of the Illithid fell on their enemies.
This is mostly because an enormous horde of humanoids is fighting for them, and behind this protective
wall of humanoids they are rebuilding their cities, replanting their fields, and putting back up their
infrastruction.
It should be worth noting that the Technomancy is ANGRY. They obviously do not like the Illithid, but they
are FURIOUS at the elves, who have slaughtered hundreds of thousands of their people.

The humanoids have been big winners in this war.
The Month of Terror affected them hardly at all, except to make their opponents weak and easily beaten.
They have run amok, sacking cities, dragging off enormous numbers of slaves, vast amounts of gold, huge
amounts of raw material, supplies, and stored food.

The gnomes, while technically a part of the Technomancy, have retreated to their underground cities (those
that are left), and put all their defenses they could up to protect them.
The gnomes rightfully see that the surface world is no place for them right now, not with armies marching
this way and that way across it.

Estlor continues his arguments for peace. However, it seems nobody is listening. This is too bad, because at
this point much of Faerun looks like Eastern Europe after the War (or Georgia after Sherman's March to the
Sea.)
Cities are reduced to bleak ruins, pieces of buildings sticking into the air like abstract artwork.
Vast areas of blackened sticks, tapering to shattered tops, branches burned away, represent the remains of
great forests.
Croplands lay fallow, slowly going back to the wild. Other croplands lay recently destroyed, the crops hacked
and burned, the ground torn up by magic or marauding monsters unleashed by the warring sides.

All remaining cities are now on their highest alert, new walls and other defenses are built, and more
defenses are being built.
All roads are blocked with felled trees, and trapped with caltrops, pits, and worse.
Sentinels watch everywhere. Paranoia is the rule. People shoot then ask questions afterwards.

All trade has ended. All commerce has stopped. Cities and countries relying on it, have seen their ways of
life simply stop.

Not that it would have mattered anyways.

All able-bodied people, men and women, have been pressed into the military.
All shops, all factories, have been pressed into or converted over to wartime use.

On the side of the Faerie Folk League

--- Estlor

On the side of the Elves

--- The Balor (the reward on The Balor's head has grown. The Technomancy wants this defector badly.)
--- Blood Jester
--- Victim

On the side of the Illithid

--- Phasmus
--- Riot Gear

On the side of the Technomancy Confederation

--- Buzzard
--- Darwin of Mind
--- Dr Skull
--- Elfric
--- Gez
--- Icarus
--- Lannon
--- Reprisal

On the side of the Humanoids

--- Forrester

Neutral

--- Enkhidu
--- Naya (he got away with his treasure hoard, after all)
--- Paperboy
--- Zouron (although he's pretending to be with the Technomancy)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:17 PM

Riot Gear, that sounds like a good idea (see Riot Gear's Post about 3 posts up)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:22 PM

Edena -- I mentioned in more than one post that while we're making sure to collapse the tunnels to
slow/stop the Illithids, we're dividing up our Millions to do massive amounts of elf-slaying.

As in "We humanoids, on the other hand, can wreak havok and destruction on the foolish elves within a
month, easy. EASY." from a couple posts back, and "Elves die first, second, and third. We'll work from there.
And get some kobolds to start tinkering with those machines . . .".

So are the elves REALLY that close to taking everything over?

I can accept if if you say that we didn't find the Spelljamming ships within that month. But the elves should
have taken HEAVY casualties during the month that they were de-magicked.

Forrester

I also said this:
"Oh -- if any of those artifact-ridden places had HUMANOIDS working as lackeys (as they usually do!), count
on my people being able to loot the places far, FAR more quickly than the dumb humans or elves or illithids
can. Heh heh heh. "

How are all sides doing on artifact collection?

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:49 PM

I have a large bounty on my head? and it's growing? K3W| d00d!@!??223!! I KNEW killing the lords of
waterdeep, the council of six, the 4 lords of baldur's gate, and by doing thus sending the technos into chaos
would bring me a tad of fame.

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:49 PM

Issue #1:
The MindFlayers had started preparations for their ascent before the spell of Krasus had been cast... The
temporary removal of magic from the picture was just the icing on the proverbial cake. [Illithid have a
metaphor that means approximately the same thing... but you don't want to hear it.] Their goals were set
somewhat higher as a result.

Issue #2:
Their preparations for battle with a still magic-intensive surface world had included the production of
psionic-technology hybrids that, unlike the surface's technomagic, will function perfectly despite the effects
of the spell of Krasus. A very distinct advantage.

Issue #3:
There is a definite precedent regarding the Illithid's working together. The interspersed Illithid colonies
center around elder brains and though the Illithid can not be in direct contact with each other without some
rather expensive psionic equipment, the elder brains can link to each other directly via a psionic shunt
through the ethereal plane [see the 2e Illithid book]. Thus, with a great deal of effort, the elder-brains can
coordinate the world's entire Illithid population. This is not a bunch of ragtag semi-sentient humanoids
suddenly developing a world-wide concordance. The MindFlayers once shared a plane-spanning empire...
and they want it back.

Issue #4: Regarding the [apparently] larger than expected numbers of Illithid on Toril, the elder brains can
coordinate the psionic transfer of MindFlayers from other primes. The effort required for such activities, and
the fact that Illithid from other worlds might not be particularly interested in helping anyway, is why Toril
hasn't been overrun by the sheer number of MindFlayers before... and won't be now. Nevertheless, the time
to strike has come, so there will be far more cooperation with each other than has been seen by anyone
living... and all but the oldest undead for that matter.

Issue #5:
We do not see our activities as atrocities of war... but as the losses inherent in any major shift in power. A
shift, we might add, which is in the long run for the good of all races... except perhaps the ones we
eliminate entirely. If we could clam this world as our own without the needless destruction of a single
wayward thrall... know what we would do so.


Regards,

Phasmus T. Tapefiend
aka Don'Calamari

Lannon
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:13 PM

EDENA I URGE YOU TO READ THIS, for that matter everyone else should reread what follows. Posted from
Buzzards comments:

quote:

Originally posted by buzzard:
I've made no claims that magic was necessary for technological prograss. My arguments are
based on the given premise that:
Technology is advanced enough for steam power and railroads.

This implies a good deal you know. It doesn't just imply that you know that steam expands
and can drive an engine. It implies that you have the machining abilities to make such an
engine. It also implies that you are going to make machine tools capable of making more
than one of those engines. (and rails, etc) That was one of the most immediate
consequences of the industrial revolution. The mechanization of machine tools is crucial to
everything. It enables rifles to be mass produced, rather than hand crafted. Also the general
level of mechanical sophistication is going to be pretty high. A railroad is not a simple thing.

Also if we're talking railroads, a certain amount of metallurgy must have been accomplished.
This means higher quality steel, or you could not make steel rails (you can't roll cast iron into
the shape). Once you have this better steel, you can make better and cheaper cannons.
(Sweden was a great power for a while based on tin deposits which allowed them to make
bronze cannons, since the steel technology in the era was so poor- this was well before
railroads). I've yet to see what a wizzard is going to do in the face of a cannon shot.
If I can make really good steel, I can make really good breastplates which will likely stop
arrows (but not bullets).

Also, whoever thinks that civil war era rifles were worse than bows, has a lot of convicing to
do to make me buy it. I will certainly grant that early firearms were inferior, but by the civil
war muzzle loading weapons had reached their pinnacle. They shot 50 caliber conical bullets
at substancial velocities to effective ranges of 700 yards or so. No such bow exists. Rifles are
also easier to use. Ammo is easier to make, and more lethal (soft lead bullets of the era
would remove limbs, at best- for the target, or simply kill you).

Also Eneda just jumped the gun and implied that nitroglycerin was invented. This implies
smokeless powder, and thus the possibility of cased ammunition and repeating
breachloading rifles. Once those hit the scene, there is not a chance that bows are
comparable. This will also increase effective range and lethality.

As for what my character would be doing the whole time, is learning the technology, and
improving it. You don't need a wizzard to do technology (well actually my last character in
Faerun was a custom class called a Tinker, who was sort of a medieval engineer- he never
liked magic much anyway- too illogical). Though the influx of fiends would have him
concentrating on wiping them out. A nice 8 gauge shotgun with either silver or cold iron shot
would likely do wonders. Also I'd make sure I'd have a priest of Gond on hand to cast magic
weapon where necessary. For a reach out and touch someone excersize I'd make the old
heavy barrelled Sharps rifle- and become the first sharpshooter. That will outrange any spell.

Buzzard


This was so well put from buzzard that it really needs to be posted again. I request that Edena read this
carefully and fully understand what he is suggesting. We were granted several things in Edena's scenerio.
Magic was not added to "make" the technology. It was simply suggested that it could be used with the
technology. In no way is it neccessary to have magic. All we need are good minds and arms to carry the
weapons.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:14 PM

I SHOULD have made it a year, not a month (this person grouses a bit)
Can't change history now. (more grousing)

The elves are not as close to victory, after all.
They should have been.
They WOULD have been, had they just been facing the weakened Technomancy alone.
They would have won against both the Technomancy and the Illithid.

However, several million humanoids came up onto the surface, you see.
Came up, and swarmed over the Elven Spelljammers like ants whenever they set down.
Came up, and slaughtered the elves whenever and wherever they found them.

Furthermore, the elves now have to contend with dragons and faerie who are opposed to what they are
doing. That isn't helping either.

The elves are powerful, and throwing that spell gave them the edge, but now they are having to take on
EVERYONE at once, and they simply can't do that, not even with the Elven Imperial Navy.

The elves are driven back. I assume the elves destroy the 5 targets in question (Blood Jester, name your
targets).
But after that, they are driven back.

Unless the elves can find an ally among the other powers, they aren't going to win this war anytime soon.

The illithids made great progress during the Month of Terror, and sacked and pillaged many surface
dwellings, and destroyed many underdark areas.
However, the illithid are now facing a massive counterattack from the faerie folk, from the technomancy,
from the elves they encounter, and from several million very angry humanoids.
The illithids, also, are driven back.

The phaerimm, however, make a big difference here.
Since the illithid were wise enough to snatch them while the snatching was good, these immensely powerful
beings are now serving the illithid.
And the phaerimm truly ARE terrible foes to face.
So, although the illithid are halted, they are standing their ground, and giving as badly as they are getting.

The phaerimm are making the difference, for they now serve the illithid.


TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:15 PM

But you are STILL not a numerous race. I am convinced that, if as you say, the illithids from other planes
don't help you, then there can only be about, if you bring ALL of the illithids from ALL over Aber-Toril, then
you will still only have about 100,000 illithids. First you have to get past the dwarves and svirfnebli. Even if
the goblinoids don't set up traps and collapse tunnels, the dwarves will. By the time you come up with your
psychic technology, magic will have returned. And simply scrying? I really doubt that the illithids know
enough people on the surface or have items that they possesed to start a mass invasion.
This is taken from the 3E phb:
Scrying
Divination
Lvl:Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components:V,S,M/DF,F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range:See text
Effect: Magical Sensor
Duration:1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

You can see and hear some creature, who may be at any distance. You must succeed at a scry check to do
so. THe difficulty of the task depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical
connection(if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, you get a -5
penalty to the scry check.

Knowledge Dc
None 20(you must have some sort of physical connection to a creature you have no knowledge of)
Secondhand(you have heard of the subject 15
Firsthand(you have met him/her) 10
Familiar(you know the subject well) 5

Connection: Scry check bonus
Likeness or picture +5
Possesion or garment +8
Body part, lock of hair +10
nail clippings, etc.

This spell creates a magical sensor located near the subject. Any creature with an intelligence score of 12 or
higher can notice the sensor by making a scry check(or an intelligence check) against DC 20.
The following spells can be cast through a scrying spell: comprehend languages, read magic, tongues, and
darkvision. The following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating correctly:detect magic, detect
chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, and message.
Arcane material Components: The eye of a hawk, an eagle, or even a roc, and nitric acid, copper, and zinc.
Wiz/sor/brd focus: a mirror of finely wrought and highly polished silver costing not less than 1000 gp. The
mirror must be at least 2 by 4 feet.
Cleric Focus: A holy water font costing not less than 1000 gp.
Druid focus: A natural pool of water
And by the time I finish typing this, the subject will have moved on...


------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:17 PM

Lannon, this is well noted.
And the Technomancy is making a very rapid and surprising recovery.
The Technomancy is back in the war as a major power, once more achieving victory and driving both the
elves and the illithid back.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:19 PM

*quivers with joy*

Could you talk more about the elves being slaughtered? Please?


Oh -- what's a Phaerimm? The "ae" is scaring me. It sounds cheaty.

Finally -- I think it's fair to say, Leaders of the Technomancers, that we humanoids have earned a little
technological support. You think? (Edena -- no doubt our kobold engineers have managed to get our hands
on some of the technology for closer inspection. We like the technomancy, but we aren't quite ready to put
our full trust in *any* surface dwellers. So while we'll ask for technological support and such, we'll make sure
to check it out to make sure there's no backstabbing going on. And perhaps work on creating our OWN little
factories.)

On the other hand, while we don't have to put full trust in the technomancers, I think it's safe to say that
they need to put full trust in *us*.

We're willing to play nice if they are. Although it wouldn't hurt to address me as "Lord Forrester", Lannon &
Company .

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-09-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:21 PM

DAMMIT!! I JUST MISSED ABOUT A WEEK OF THE WAR WHEN TYPING THAT DAMN SPELL DESCRIPTION!!!

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:27 PM

Well, Forrester, the humanoids have discovered that elven Spelljammers don't burn well - they are partially
alive, you see.
But they make great kindling, once chopped up.
For that matter, elves make great kindling too, when they are chopped up.

A phaerimm: think of a tornado.
At the wide top of the tornado is a head with four arms sticking out around it, and one heck of a big mouth.
If you can see it, there is a body that becomes steadily more slender as it goes back from the head, until it
tapers to a point.

The phaerimm are, in 3E, sorcerers of levels 15 - 20.
But in 2E, they are wizards of levels 30 to 45 (that is directly from the Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set)

Phaerimm have tremendous spell immunity, in addition to that, being able to bounce spells thrown at them
straight back at you.

Did I mention they also have great bite attacks, tail (sting) attacks, and claw attacks?

A single phaerimm could take on a Chosen of Mystra, and have some chance of winning.
Three phaerimm could take on a Chosen, and win.
There are several hundred phaerimm that were under the desert of Anauroch, but the illithid (wisely) went
after them and captured them.
This was possible because the elves (bless their hearts) ended ALL magic on Toril for a time, and the
phaerimm were briefly vulnerable, and Phasmus was smart.

That is why you have not overwhelmed the illithid and driven them back into the Underdark.
With the (now fully powered again) phaerimm under their command, the illithid are a force to be reckoned
with.

Even if there are only a few hundred phaerimm, a few hundred are enough (my greatest character is scared
to death of these monsters)


((By the way, the phaerimm are going to be VERY, VERY ANGRY when they are freed of the psionic
compulsion.
How would you feel if the elves took away your magic, then the illithid enslaved you, and then you were
forced up onto the surface to fight assorted gnomes, technomancers, humanoids, and Mystra knows what
else, when all you really wanted to do was study spells??
There is going to be HADES to pay when the phaerimm break free of their compulsion!!))

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:33 PM

Edena -- Can these Phaerimm teleport? If so, can they fit into 5' tall passages/rooms? It sounds like that's
unlikely . . .

In which case, moving production of technomagical weaponry to the Underdark might be a strong call. (Hey,
it's going to happen anyway, as during the month we were able to examine the technology, and do a little
looting. But we can speed things up a great deal if we call cooperate, here . . . )

Forrester
Technomancy's Best Friend

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:47 PM

The phaerimm can teleport.
The phaerimm can Shapechange also.
Would they care to fit themselves into 5 foot tall passages?
Not likely.

The elven nation of Evereska is now surrounded and besieged.
If two or more of the other powers declare they are cooperating in attacking it (that is, if the Faerie and
Technomancy, or the Humanoids and the Technomancy, or the Illithid and the Gnomes, and so on), it is
taken and destroyed and/or occupied.

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:48 PM

With the passing of the month of terror, despite their enemies reclamation of magic, the attacks of the
Illithid only seem to intensify in strength and number, particularly in the areas of Myth Dranor, CandleKeep,
Nimbral and Halruaa... Then, more quickly than would seem possible, the MindFlayers withdraw from
combat. Only a few scattered groups of thralls remain... just enough to mask their master's retreat. They
leave only destruction and woe in their wake. The ransacked centers of population and magical power are
decimated beyond recognition, and the remains of the original inhabitants are scarce indeed... almost as
scarce as the items of knowledge and power that were once present.
For a short time Illithid activity continues in Halruaa, and then nothing. The MindFlayers have withdrawn to
the deepest deeps of the underdark... and sealed the way behind them. With them, they have taken the
most powerful artifacts and arcane knowledge to be had in Toril, not to mention a great many of the arcane
spellcasters themselves. There are some who speculate, and rightly so, that they found what they were
looking for...

The way to the underdark is now closed by tons of solid rock and the enclosed area is warded by the full
attention of the elder brains. None shall enter, and none shall leave... for a time. The drow cities decimated
have been sealed as well, along with their enslaved populations. The surface dwellers are free to continue
their petty squabble... for now the MindFlayers have the phaerimm, they have arcane power unrivaled... and
they have all the time in the world.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"Your will, is our will. Your mind, is our mind. Your money, is our money."

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:57 PM

The following nations are out of the war, permanently (and pretty much out of it, period):

Halruaa (devastated)
Luruar (devastated)
Thay (wiped out)
Waterdeep (devastated)

Nimbral is demanding an immediate ALL OUT attack by EVERYONE against the Illithid, even if they have to
chase them to the center of the planet.
Nimbral cites the threat of the phaerimm, the threat from captured spellcasters, and the threat from stolen
artifacts as reasons (not to mention they are angry at having been attacked themselves.)
Nimbral is calling on EVERYONE to ally against the Illithid.

However, unless the Posts indicate it, this does not happen.

The dwarves have been trying to stay out of the war (the only race to do so.)
However, the dwarves have had enough. Trade is out, food supplies are short, they are attacked whenever
they set foot outside their mountain homes.
The dwarves are ready to enter the war. Anyone offering them alliance? And what incentives, if any?

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 10:59 PM

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya, Evereska.

Them elves are good eatin'.



TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:00 PM

Good. I was thinking you guys would never leave.

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus


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Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:02 PM

The humanoids are launching an all out assault on Evereska.
Does anyone else join them?

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:04 PM

What's a Nimbral?

I'll lead my legions against the Illithids after one little pointy-eared problem is taken care of. Once and for
all.

How do the dwarves feel about spanking their long-hated fellow demi-humans? We humanoids are a
practical folk, and have always hated elves more than dwarves.

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-09-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:05 PM

I myself go as emissary to the dwarven kingdoms. I tell them that the illithids have gone too far. The
dwarves already have full access to the underdark, and they could be a humongous help. The illithids have
our best mages, probably a few great engineers, and our greatest magiks. It's time we strike back. COME
TO ARMS, MY BRETHREN!! TOO LONG HAVE WE LET THE ILLITHIDS DWELL BENEATH THE EARTH, PLOTTING
AND SCHEMING!! They think they are secure in their victory, and this is the perfect time to strike. I say we
travel to the vaunted underdark and wipe these squid-faced vermin out ONCE, and for all......

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:07 PM

Whoa whoa whoa!!!

Let me get confirmation that the Technomancy is coming along with us.

We aren't the damn Kurds.

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:08 PM

Dwarves would not.under any circumstances. EVER IN A QUADRILLION YEARS ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH
GOBLINOIDS!! They would kill any who came near them. There is no way they would ally with goblinoids.

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

[This message has been edited by TheBalor (edited 04-09-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:09 PM

Nimbral is an island.
Home of a powerful, if small, magic-using nation.
A very wise, and very mysterious (and very powerful) group of mages.

The assault on Evereska continues, but the humanoids alone cannot take it.
Although thousands of humanoids die valiant deaths for the cause, those stubborn elves behind their hill
fortresses and trees just can't be dislodged!

The dwarves are willing to announce a Truce (not an alliance!) with the humanoids IF it means achieving one
of the following:

Bringing peace
Bringing to justice the elves who cast the spell that brought down magic, and caused the Month of Terror
Going after the illithid.

- - -

Balor, the dwarves agree. The dwarves are willing to go after the illithid ...

IF, first ...

All elves (you speak for them, remember, Balor) who were involved in casting that spell (the one that
brought down magic) are turned over to the dwarves, to be tried for Crimes Against the Dwarves.
They will be tried, found guilty, and then drawn and quartered.
And YES, Queen Amlaruil of Evermeet is ONE of those the dwarves are demanding be turned over.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

Bran Blackbyrd
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:22 PM

Room for one more? I'm just a humble priest of Bacchus, but if I see one more grove trampled, or one
more vinyard burned by the wicked... I want to join Estlor and the Faerie Folk League in the fight for peace. I
am fully prepared to help the Faerie Folk and the earth spirits restore balance to nature and organize
against the desecrators.
At the risk of involving Outsiders again I could even pull in the help of the Bacchae, Maenads and nature
folk on the planes.

------------------
Jason "Warlocke" Lewis
----------------------
DM: You see there are orcs camped out in the chasm ahead of you.
Me: Do they have multiple Orc-Chasms?
Warlocke's Realm

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:28 PM

Aw, goddamnit, ya got me in a fix here. My whole angle with this was to unite the races against the illithids,
and if we win that part, then everyone will be too exhausted to fight each other anymore, so it'd have been
a forced truce...DAMMIT, WHY ARE THE DWARVES SO GODDAMNED STUBBORN?!HUH?HUH?!

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:29 PM

Bran, I assure you one more druid grove now gets trampled and destroyed.
What do you think orcs do for a living?

You do the summoning you mention. And those you summon, summon others, and thus:

The Outsiders are back in the War! On the side of the Faerie Folk.

The dwarves ARE stubborn. That's a dwarven trait!
Besides, they aren't too happy about the elves shutting off the lights. The dwarven ability to see in the dark
is semi-magical, and it ended with the magic.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:31 PM

*sigh* you win. I agree to the dwarven terms, and after having several dozen permanent spell protections
placed upon myself, I head into the techno lands to negotiate a temporary alliance until the illithids are
beaten...*sigh*

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:33 PM

Wait a sec...you faeries aren't summoning tana'ri, right?

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:36 PM

Edena! Slow it down, until we get a representative of the Technomancy here. I'm sure they would have
helped me against the damn elves.


Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:39 PM


Ok.

Queen Amlaruil of Evermeet, her chief advisors, the Head of the Elven Imperial Navy, and various other
important elven figures are turned over to the dwarves (forcibly, I might add - they would not go willingly!)
by their own people.
The dwarves put all of them on trial, find them guilty of Crimes Against the Dwarves, and imprison them in
deep prisons, under heavy magical wards.

This done, the dwarves march out in their full strength. Untouched by the war so far, they come with all their
armor, weapons, magic, and the famous fury of their kind.
By the tens of thousands, the dwarves march to war, to stand beside the elves against the illithid.
The very ground of Faerun trembles to the thunder of dwarven feet, and the air trembles to the sounds of
their mighty war chants.

Because of the devastation of Waterdeep, the Lord's Alliance is also demanding an assault on the illithid.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-09-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:42 PM

Get a technomancer in here. I wanna know how negotiations with them go.

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Bran Blackbyrd
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:42 PM

No tana'ri, mostly the wild and wooly nature folk, the rabid followers of Bacchus, and maybe the odd
celestial. Not to mention any druidic types that are planeside and willing to lend a hand.

------------------
Jason "Warlocke" Lewis
----------------------
DM: You see there are orcs camped out in the chasm ahead of you.
Me: Do they have multiple Orc-Chasms?
Warlocke's Realm

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:43 PM

Blast it all, why can't you vile light-mongers just leave us alone long enough to bring about your utter
destruction?! Is that too much to ask?

-sigh-

Well, now I guess I have to mention what we're up to... but we had really wanted it to be a surprise.

Currently, the MindFlayers are using the combined magical strength of the phaerimm and the some of
choicest magical tomes, artifacts and minds from CandleKeep, MythDranor, Halruaa and Nimbral to achieve
the following goals, given in order of precedence:

1: Protect themselves from the surface forces and any outsiders and deities who may be foolish enough as
to attempt to oppose their fiendish schemes... not to mention from any possibly dangerous items or beings
that they may have brought with them. Safety first and all that. This goal includes small forces being sent to
the surface if possible to do so safely... to spread havoc and mistrust among the surface dwellers.

2: Blot out [at least the light of] the sun on a permanent basis, making magic and geothermal heat the
sole source of life... And wiping out a large portion of their opposition. This happens to be a major
component of their next goal...

3: Secure utter domination over every living being, sentient or otherwise, on, in or around the world... and
destroy any and all undead that may be present.


Their resources are now spread more or less evenly between the three goals... but should there be a
shortfall [unlikely] or should it be necessary to divert attention to any one, protection will come first, followed
by darkness... and finally their ultimate goal of world domination. They are being very cautious. They are so
close to ultimate victory that they can almost taste it... and they do not want any mistakes.

I do not have the administrative capacity to determine what comes of their efforts. Edena, I will leave that in
your hands for the time being.

Please note that... aside from the possibility mages looking forward in time and noting that things look
rather dark... no one has this information except the MindFlayers themselves.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"DuctTape: It's almost all you need sometimes."

(Post 6) Thread One of the 1st IR

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:44 PM

[OOC - Damn! Work has put me way behind here!]

O.K. I disagree with a few results/calls here (especially the overlooking of the fact that Psionics would be just
as crippled as magic for one month) but, oh well.

The recovery of the techs is overrated, it is not that they couldn't eventually have built these things better, it
is that they didn't because they started to rely on magic instead of developing their technology along the
proper lines. The irony is that the Technos downfall was their dependence on magic, and lack of faith in the
superiority of their technology.

Here are my attack choices; in situations where the Illithids took over other Cities, our goals are elimination
of the Illithids, are freeing the cities in question (the acceptable cost varies, but usually the goal is to
preserve the conquered)

1st group)

1-The Drow of the Underdark
2-The Phaerimm of Anauroch
3-The Illithid Nation
4&5-The top two nations supporting the Technomancy army


2nd group)

1-Zhentil Keep
2345-The next four nations supporting the Technomancy army


3rd group)

1-Halruaa
2-Candlekeep
3-Nimbral
4-Myth Drannor
5-(Held in reserve to support efforts where needed.)

Still a slave to work, will comment as able.

Blood Jester


P.S. - Elven skill with a bow, and ability to sneak in and out of places is not affected by the loss of magic.
Skills are like that.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:44 PM

Um, in case you couldn't tell, the humanoids are holding back until a Technomancy representative logs in . .
. Shees!

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:46 PM

Damnit, where are they all?

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:47 PM


Now wait a minute.

A grand alliance of the Technomancers, humanoids, elves, and dwarves against the illithid is not possible
when:

The humanoids are currently (and frantically) trying to destroy elven Evereska.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

johnbrown
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:59 PM

Sorry for the interruption, but I would just like to say that this one great thread. If you put this all in a novel
I sure would buy it.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-09-2001 11:59 PM

I don't know how much time has passed since the Month of Terror, Edena, but I want to point out that I did
say we took their technology and have been working on it ourselves (our kobold sorcerer/engineers, that is).

So to be honest, while the technomancers would be very helpful, I'm not sure that (given our numbers) we
absolutely need them to take Everseka or whatever the hell elf-land that was.

Not that we won't wait for help if we need it, of course -- just want to point out that WE are no longer a bunch
of dumb humanoids with pointy sticks. We've got the tech and we've got the manpower.

Picture China with U.S. technology. A Billion strong. Hell yeah.



Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:04 AM

(To John Brown)

Thank you.

Although heaven knows where this will end up!

I repeat: the elves will NOT ally with the humanoids when the humanoids are trying to destroy their
MILlENNIA old civilization of Evereska.
Not ally with them against the illithid, or anyone else.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:04 AM

Whoa! Way too much changed while I was typing!

Edena:

-The Dwaves were (attempted to be) recruited quite a while ago.

-Everyone involved in casting the spell gave their lives doing it (stated at the time of casting).

-They will not get the Queen, nor military commanders not even involved in the decision to cast the spell, if
the Dwarves have any honor, they would not even ask this, and if they do the Elves refuse. The mage coucil
will take the blame for The Queen, and those few who live will stand trial if necessary. But the Queen is off
limits.

-Had the Dwarves had the courage to come stand with us in the fray instead of hiding in their burrows, this
could have all been avoided, so...

-If they insist on holding trials, we demand their cowardly military leaders stand trial in our courts for their
crimes against the Elves. Their failure having caused the needless deaths of thousands of our people.

Blood Jester

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:09 AM

That's MUCH more like what I'd think would happen . . .

Now, then. The dwarves have been spurned. And they hate the elves. And the humanoids didn't target them
one BIT.

So how about it, dwarves? A single-time cooperative attack on Evereska?




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Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:10 AM


Well, you heard Blood Jester.

So did the dwarves.

The dwarves refuse to ally with the elves or anyone else against the illithid.

Until Queen Amlaruil and other Malefactors are brought in for justice, they aren't budging. (and everyone
knows about dwarven stubborness)

Isolated forays against the illithid? Yes.
A full scale effort? Not at all.

The dwarves, outraged, point out that the elves wrecked their magic and their darksight, and never
consulted them about it (they would never have agreed to such a thing in any case.)
Many dwarves died as a result of that elven spell, the dwarves claim. And many more fell sick, and much of
the food supply was ruined.

The dwarves think it only reasonable that those responsible for the blood of innocent dwarven lives be held
accountable for this atrocity.

- - -

The dwarves do not engage in the battle for Evereska, holding themselves strictly neutral.
Although some of them would like to, and a few good dwarves go to aid the elves, and a few evil dwarves
aid the humanoids.
But not enough to make any difference.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:10 AM

BLOOD JESTER YOU IDIOT!! THOSE DWARVES WERE OUR LAST HOPE OF WINNING!!

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:19 AM

Damn dwarves. I thought they wanted to bring down the elves. Hmph.

But we should probably pause before moving forward too much until we get a Technomancer representative.

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:20 AM

Break until morning, people...

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:37 AM

The deaths of most of our Mage Council is not enough? The remainder offering to submit to trial is not
enough? Would ANY nation give up their rulers for trial? Come on, the Dwarves would not even ask such a
thing.

Anyway, see you guys tomorrow.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:49 AM

Okay, see you all tomorrow.

Edena -- please confirm, if you can, in your next synopsis that we humanoids have started our own factories
(and/or are running some of the technomancer factories) and now have better than typically dumb weapons.
As I said, in the Month of Terror we could have "appropriated" some of the technomancer tech (from cities
the elves destroyed, or while we were defending the technomancers, or whatever) in the confusion -- VERY
easily. We've got the metalworking ability, we've got some magical ability (kobold sorcerers), and we've got
the numbers to churn out product faster than the technomancers ever did. Not that we aren't still
allied/protecting them, of course. As long as they play nice.

The intention all along was to wait for the Technomancy to aid us in an attack on Evereska. Consider them
under siege at the moment (so they are surrounded, but we aren't losing forces), and we move in as soon
as a member of the Technomancy confirms they are going to help us wipe these bastards off of the planet .
. . so that they won't be able to cast their dumb little 12th level spell ever again.

After that is taken care of, I'll consider how to handle the Illithid menace. If for some reason the
technomancy REFUSES to aid us . . . well, I'm not even going to speculate about that right now. I'll wait for
them to post.


Forrester
Lord of the Humanoid Legions
Defender of Technomancy
Eater of Elves

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:52 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:
I SHOULD have made it a year, not a month (this person grouses a bit)
Can't change history now. (more grousing)

The elves are not as close to victory, after all.
They should have been.
They WOULD have been, had they just been facing the weakened Technomancy alone.
They would have won against both the Technomancy and the Illithid.

However, several million humanoids came up onto the surface, you see.
Came up, and swarmed over the Elven Spelljammers like ants whenever they set down.
Came up, and slaughtered the elves whenever and wherever they found them.

....

The elves are driven back.


Just a quote for my friends the technomancers to read and consider, before deciding whether to ally with us
against Evereska.

Forrester
20th level Elf-Skisher


Lannon
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:53 AM

Edena i sent out an emissary to the dwarves long ago! However that has come and past so I will move on to
more pressing concerns. After the destruction of our magic and the following destruction of some of our
resources we were forced to fall back. I think that I am the only force speaking for the technomancy now.
Forrester, if you want the guns you have them, you neednt steal what will rightfully be offered you. The
dwarves never accepted my offer to meet together. However, considering the cirumstances I will extend my
offer to them again. The dwarves will have to be willing to work with the humanoids, they should understand
that our forces are offered peacefully. Forrester, your forces have consistently raided those in opposition to
my own. I offer you support in the battles raging now. If you will open your passages we will move some of
our skills within the earth so that we might harvest the wealth of the underdark together. Edena I am
unaware of which human establishments are under my control. Edena, I do not really know the level of
technology that I have available for me. If that could be filled in for me I think my posts on that subject
could be more helpful.

Furthermore, Forrester the best way to feed those millions of troops is with industrial machinery working in
the background. If you bolster my defenses I will keep your troops fed and I can help build supply lines
(steam powered trains) to the front lines. There is nothing greater, Forrester, than watching your enemies
explode in blood from a single rifle shot, or from the blast of a cannon!

I wish to send emissaries to halruaa and Thay. I believe that my new recruitment policy needs to be
implemented here. If these nations are truly destroyed I will accept the loyalty of the recently crushed.
These mages can be employed with my forces. I suppose we shall have to embrace diversity. The
humanoids I think were simply oppressed rather than evil .

Additionally, I want to reestablish my relations with the dragons. The elves destruction of magic should have
put them in thorough disfavor with the gigantic winged beasts! I want them back and I want larger and more
powerful weapons in their hands! Furthermore, I want research done in the field of explosives. Special focus
should be given to explosives of a large size, perhaps so large that dragons might drop them...(sounds like
the airforce ) This research can bolster siege engines as well. If i dont have cased ammo yet then I want
a research focus on ammunition available. If need be the priests of Gond can aid me in this research by
communing with their god. However, let me stress that magic is not needed to get the technology to work it
is only a useful enhancer. The magic can be more than that, but the technology should work on its own!

Buzzard you have my support.

Edena I have one request, can you work this by submission. We can each provide a submission each day or
so and then expect it to be updated. Lets slow down the pace a bit so we can all be in on the fun. I missed
like two years when I went to grab some dinner .

Anyhow, its been fun. I really want to hear about these wonderful humanoids wielding some of the nations
wonderful technology!

TheBalor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:58 AM

Goddamnit, this is aggravating. I want to SLEEP, but I can't without you guys posting..JUST STOP,OK?!

------------------


If history is to change,let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my destiny to die, then I
must simply laugh.-The Magus

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:59 AM

Those are excellent sentiments, Lannon, and I urge Edena to take note of them -- especially the part about
full access to weaponry.

We shall not disappoint. However, you failed to add an important sentence to your missive, Lannon. I urge
you to add it:

"We, the Technomancy, support the humanoids fully in their effort to take Evereska -- and we would have
supported them fully as soon as the issue arose. Unfortunately, I was at dinner ".


Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:04 AM

Good night, LightBound.
Would that this world could be spared from seeing another dawn...
Soon enough... soon enough.
All will be made right.


Regards,

Phasmus T. Tapefiend:

Don'Calamari,
Speaker-To-Thralls,
Public Representative of the Illithid,
Horde-Master 1st Class.

Lannon
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:06 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Forrester:
Those are excellent sentiments, Lannon, and I urge Edena to take note of them -- especially
the part about full access to weaponry.

We shall not disappoint. However, you failed to add an important sentence to your missive,
Lannon. I urge you to add it:

"We, the Technomancy, support the humanoids fully in their effort to take Evereska -- and
we would have supported them fully as soon as the issue arose. Unfortunately, I was at
dinner ".


Agreed my belly called me away. Unfortunately, I think we will have to work with what we have left . I think
together we can do more than enough. If I can pull the dragons back, after the elven fiasco, I think we can
be something else.

To Balor, I just now got a chance to post my own update, give me a break .

Gruffmug
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:07 AM

A goblin archmage enters the fray bringing with him a host of Githyanki and githzerai. The githyanki lich
queen is killed by me (secretly) and the blame is on illithiad. The gith. races come to a truce due to my
diplomacy. However, as a concession to the the githyanki we attack the elves and their fleet. Oh, illithaid
hunting parties are now every where and whoa to any who stand in our way. We ally with the humanoids.
Also, I seek to gain information on this new technomancy and steal elven secrets of spelljammer building.
Soon, fleets of orcs spelljamers shall be seen in wildspace once again.


Nok goblin defiler, wildmage, chromancer resident of limbo.
"Who is the master"
"Shonuff"

[This message has been edited by Gruffmug (edited 04-10-2001).]

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:22 AM

I may be over-stepping my bounds, but I will be the Technocracy's tentative representative. As this
representative, I will formally ally my factions within the Technocracy with the humanoid forces under
Forrester and join Lannon at the stockades against the Illithids and the Elves.

(Post Edit)

Once more, I have re-read the posts concerning the dwarves, and I would believe that those countries under
the banner of the Technocracy would recognize the Dwarven neutrality. At the same time though, I would not
doubt that the men would send aid in the form of healers (magic or otherwise), foodstuffs and livestock.
The dwarves are known to be a potent ally, if not militarily, then perhaps economically. We trade what they
want for what we want... How well do you think certain dwarves would be at machining cannon barrels? We
would ask them to simply work the machines, which we would supply to them free of charge. In exchange,
we would require that a portion of their metal workers help craft quality cannon and musket barrels.

As for the elves, they can go kiss Whoever's the Honcho in the Abyss for all I care. The human nations
under the technocratic banner would probably say the same thing, and support the dwarves in their call for
military trials against those responsible for the catastrophe. I doubt it'd do anything on the elven side, but
the dwarves know where we stand, and that's good enough for me.

I would also call out to Forrester to keep his hordes under control when it comes to the dwarves, I am well
aware of the bad blood between the dwarves and the races under Forrester. Can I get this from you,
Forrester? If so, there's a shipment of newly machined cannon and a full assortment of different shot for
your armies. This way, you will have more than mere catapults and ballistae.

A sign of good will, both to the dwarves and to the humanoids.

((On a side note, I doubt human nations would trust the humanoids farther than arms length. I hope they
will understand. Strange bedfellows and all that, eh Forrester?))

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

[This message has been edited by Reprisal (edited 04-10-2001).]

DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:24 AM

Wow, I go away for one measily little day and this thread doulbes in size. Couldn't you hold the war just for
24 hours,

Anyways, If the Illithids Psionics worked during the Month of Terror So did mine, Not ever having been plane
walking before and seeing big troulbe everywhere, I ducked out. (Cowerdly but for good reason.) I've been
roaming about, and Have now returned, with all the knowledge, and forces, and technology I could gather all
over the Multiverse. (Didn't get to visit a few places, Krynn, Athas, Ravenloft. But went nearly everywhere
else.)


Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:36 AM

Evereska, the elven nation that has stood since before the Dawn of Netheril, since the Rise of Man, falls to
the humanoids.

Lannon and Reprisal make it possible, for they can speak for the technomancy.

Evereska falls.
Gleeful orcs swarm over the defenses, putting ancient trees and monuments to the torch, smashing and
hacking.
Elven homes of crystal and marble shatter at the blows of gnolls. A vast cloud of smoke goes up from the
stricken city.
Armed with firearms from the Technomancy, the humanoids mow down the elven defenders, and elven
fighter and elven civilian fall alike - the humanoids make no distinction.
It is a massacre.
When it is over, all the elven women and children that remain are chained and taken away, to be led into
thralldom in the dens of the humanoids, or to slave away for the Technomancy.

(Yes, Lannon and Reprisal, this is on your hands. Whatever happens next, you take the consequences! )

- - -

To Forester: You are correct. The humanoids HAVE been setting up weapons factories, very secretly and
quietly.
While the surface cities have been pounded into rubble, and the big guns have roared above, the
humanoids have quietly and quickly been building weapons factories underground.
So yes, the humanoids - especially the kobolds! - have access to firearms, explosives, and other destructive
technology.

- - -

The dwarves WOULD have listened to your offer, Lannon/Reprisal, but upon hearing of the destruction of
Evereska by humanoids, they are unhappy.
They do wish the elves to hand over Queen Amlaruil and Company for trial, but they do not support the
destruction of the ancient elven civilization by savage humanoids, and the enslavement of the remaining
elves by them.
They remain neutral.

Lannon, both Thay and Halruaa were devastated by the illithid (and Thay was in total anarchy and civil war
prior to that - when magic collapsed the slaves rose up)

At this point the following countries are in the Technomancy:

Amn
Calimshan
Chessenta
Dambrath
Impiltur
Luskan
Mulhorand
Nimbral (just joined)
Thazalar
Thesk
Threskel
Turmish
Sembia
Var the Golden
Ulgarth

Damara, Thar, and Narfell are nominal allies of the Technomancy.

The following nations are with the Elven Alliance:

Aglarond
The Akanal
Ashanath (although just barely)
Candlekeep
Chondath
All the elves left in Cormanthyr
Cormyr
The Great Dale (has switched sides)
The High Forest
The Moonshaes
Lantan
Neverwinter
Rashemen
Sespech
Tethyr
The Lord's Alliance
Unther
Westgate

Thay was with the Technomancy, but it is now out of the war.
Luruar, Waterdeep, and Halruaa were with the elves, but they are now out of the war.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:43 AM

Posted an edit for my above post, sorry about that, I hadn't known that we're all watching this thread like
the perverbial vultures.

Yes, I understand the responsibility involved in my actions and I forsee the humanoids turning as soon as
the Illithids are dealt with... We are putting the pieces in place.

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:49 AM


quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:
Evereska, the elven nation that has stood since before the Dawn of Netheril, since the Rise
of Man, falls to the humanoids.
....
It is a massacre.
When it is over, all the elven women and children that remain are chained and taken away, to
be led into thralldom in the dens of the humanoids, or to slave away for the Technomancy.


Don't forget lunch!

Well, as of now it seems as though the Technomancy is fully cooperating with us -- meaning that while no
doubt we are working on our own technology and such (just as the Israelis might), we can also rely a good
deal on our allies the Technomancy (just as the Israelis do w/regard to the US).

Excellent. Any other elven outposts of note to bring down, or is it time to determine whether action need be
taken against the Illithids? Please let me know how far we are from wiping out the elven race on this world.

Ah . . goblin and kobold Spelljammer ships. As Cartman would say, "Sweeeeeeet!"



DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:52 AM

You know we have pretty much destroyed FR,

Anyway, I bring my new found knowledge to the Technomancy, Any worries about inferror technology are
gone as There are countless planes with higher tech.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:01 AM

Yes, Reprisal, we are quite aware that you surface-dwellers will not fully trust us. However, we have little
grudge against you -- in fact, none at this point. You have let the elves brainwash you . . . we may have
some violent peoples among us, but we are not an unjust people.

But we ARE a cautious one. Meaning we'll be sure to check the equipment you send us for latent magical
boobytraps and such . . . we wiped out the elves, be forewarned that any treachery on your part will result in
cannons being pointed in a direction you would not like.

On that note -- we will let the dwarves be for now. Not that we could not overrun them and kill them with
ease, given our greater numbers and superior technology. But in all honesty, we have far more hatred for
elven and illithid arrogance than for dwarven stubbornness. We can understand stubbornness. But elitist
snotty arrogance -- well, the time for vengeance is at hand.

Edena -- I noticed that there were a lot of elvish areas left. Given that we probably outnumber them 20 to 1
(as they are one race, and we are many, and any of our races' members ALONE outnumber them!), AND
have cannon and rifles and far better technology than they do . . . well, how long until we completely and
totally wipe them out? Modify your answer depending on whether we have the Dragons on our side, of
course.

We will make sure that the elven menace is snuffed out, once and for good -- afterwards, let us discuss
what to do about these squid-heads.

As far as alliances with the human races . . . again, we will grudgingly accept them. If they do not move
against us, and perhaps RESPECT us for the first time in a millenia, then we will let them live.

FINAL point: we welcome with half-open arms our new allies, the gith. The enemy of our enemy is our friend.
Though we would like some proof that Gruffmug is actually a goblin, of course, and has humanoid interests
at heart.

If you are fully on my side, Gruffmug, the elves will fall within weeks, perhaps days. What do you say?

Forrester
Bane of Evereska

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:07 AM

Stupid dwarves. Savage humanoids indeed. We would not be savages if we were not constantly attacked
from below by Drow and Illithid, and attacked from above by elf and human and, yes, dwarf.

Well, the savages have fire-sticks now. Big fire-sticks. And unlike most savages, we know how to build more.
(Not that you folks necessarily know that.)

I suggest to the dwarves that they keep their ARROGANCE in check. The elves had it coming.

Forrester
(who still is far more irritated at the elves and illithids)

johnbrown
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:14 AM

( To Edena ? Your welcome)

Again, Sorry for interrupting and forgive me if this hast been mentioned before, but why aren?t those groups
who are fighting the mind flayers using some of those Realms portals I keep reading about and getting
mercenaries from other worlds if you are so short on manpower. Help from say?.Oerth?

There are a few powerful people -- Tenser, Jallarzi, maybe Bigby, and Otto ? who would recognize that a
threat of such magnitude could easily spill over into the Flanaess (although the rest of the Circle of Eight
would probably stay out of it). Not only that, countries like Perrenland, The Domain of Greyhawk, The
Northern Kingdom and Ahlissa will send mercenaries anywhere if the cash was right (as long as you don?t
mind working with evils in the case of The Northern Kingdom and Ahlissa). You could also call on the Fists Of
Hextor (again evil but bodies are bodies) Heck, Iuz and/or Rary might be willing to lend some orcs to the
?humanoids? for a few examples of those nifty bang sticks they have (once again evil). Queen Yolande of
Celene might be willing to help out the elves. Not much help available from the other ?good? countries, I?m
afraid. They have their own problems right now and really can?t spare the manpower?..


Anyway just a thought, let the war continue?.


[This message has been edited by johnbrown (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by johnbrown (edited 04-10-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:20 AM


Two MORE armies now enter the fray.

A githyanki and githzerai army under the command of Gruffmug's goblin.
This army joins the Technomancy, apparently.

A second smaller force under Darwin of Mind, consisting of all manner of free-booters, adventurers, and
Outsiders, not to mention clerics willing to spread the faith, has come from the other Spheres.
This force also joins the Technomancy.

However! ...

The Dragons do NOT join the Technomancy.

The Dragons, among the most powerful of Toril's beings, are with the Faerie Folk, and THEY are against
EVERYONE who is continuing this war.
They wish peace, and they want it now.
However, nobody has bothered to listen to their pleas for peace.

A note: The Faerie Folk and their allies have now become the single most powerful force on Toril, because:

Nobody has been fighting them
They have been calling vast numbers of Faerie from the Outer Planes
They have been calling vast numbers of allied Outsiders from those Planes
They have nearly all the dragons, and all of the oldest and wisest ones are with them.

Guess what, folks?
The dwarves just joined THEM.

Now, someone asked: where is the next elven target?

That would be Evermeet. The sacred homeland, the land of sanctuary, the final place of retreat, for the
elves for 50,000 years.
Evermeet is ruled by Queen Amlaruil, it is defended by the Elven Imperial Navy, and it is separated from the
mainland by a vast ocean.
Evermeet is going to be TEN TIMES harder to take than Evereska was.

There are also smaller groups of elves on the mainland.
ALL the countries listed as being on the side of the elves, are fighting on their side right now, and protecting
them. (See the list about 3 to 5 posts up.)


The Technomancy and it's enemies are in bad shape. Think of Europe during the war.
Cities are in ruins, the countryside depopulated.
The war machine is still partially intact, and what is intact is concentrated in certain areas.
In these areas, protected by all the magic that can be mustered, a feverish effort is being made to fully
rebuild the war machine fully, and to expand the effort to other centers of production.
Because of the intervention of the humanoids, who formed a wall of protection, much of this work has been
done. But much still needs to be done.

It is now the 5th year of the War. Deaths are now in the hundreds of thousands.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:28 AM

Edena -- actually, Gruffmug said that he was joining the humanoids, specifically, not the Technomancy. He
also said explicitly that he was attacking the elven fleet.

I also have to quibble a little bit with the comparison of the situation as "Europe after the War". The war was
a very even contest. We outnumber our foe and we outgun them as well. This is more like the colonial U.S.
against the Indians. The U.S. expanded quite quickly given its greater numbers and better technology, even
considering the Indian wars . . .

I know the comparison isn't *completely* fair, but I think it's closer than Europe after the war . . . !

Forrester
Worried About Big Dumb Dragons
Getting People To Summon Fiendish Outsiders

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:33 AM

Okay, allies. My suggestion is that we let Evermeet sit for now. No doubt the damn Dragons would
IMMEDIATELY intercede. God forbid the elves lose their crappy little homeland.

However, it sounds to ME like we can take the rest of the continent (continents? I have no idea what the
map looks like) with more ease. In other words, rid everywhere BUT Evermeet of elves. We'll let the human
allies of the elves live (unless they get in our way) -- after the elves have been wiped out, we'll plea for
peace, of course.

Edena -- how difficult would that be? Could we do it fairly quickly, if we haven't done most of it already in the
last five years? Boom-sticks!

Forrester


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:33 AM

The reason it is like Europe after the war is because early in the game someone invited all the dragons into
the war!
A single ancient dragon is a match for a large town, and two or three of them a small city.
There were hundreds of dragons involved, and their specific instructions were to: attack cities and industrial
areas. In other words, to attack densely populated areas.
As I previously stated quite a while back, tens of thousands of civilians were killed, and entire regions
terrorized.
Flights of dragons are no joke.

Now the dragons are all allied with the Faerie Folk. Better pay attention when their leader talks ...


- - -

To answer your question, Forrester, you are nowhere close to taking all of Faerun, for the simple reason that
Estlor and his Faerie Folk and their Dragons and their new allies the dwarves are opposing you.
The elves and their allied nations are still fighting desperately, too.

But Estlor has MASSIVE force backing him, force almost equalling yours.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:37 AM

Edena -- oh, most of that happened early in the war.

Okay. I thought you were implying that my humanoid forces had taken heavy losses, which I don't think
should be the case. Some losses, yes, but not disproportionate ones. Combine that with our greater
numbers, and we're kicking ass. (We lose 200,000 forces, no big deal. The elves lose 200,000, there's not
many of them left. And we should lose FEWER than the others due to our vastly better technology -- so
maybe only 50,000.)

Forrester
Happy to be eatin' elf ears

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:38 AM

Eek! The DRAGONS are now opposing us?!

You didn't tell me THAT before.

Hmmmmmm. That's not good.
I'll sign off for the night . . . but if the Dragons are entering, we'll concentrate far more on entrenching and
holding the areas we've taken, as opposed to conquering new areas. Which certainly might be interpreted as
a move for "peace".

But we're not budging.

Meanwhile, the kobold factories of the Underdark (ever vigilant against possible Illithid movements and
hopefully aided with information by their new allies the Gith, led by Gruffmug), continue to churn and
develop, churn and develop, churn and develop . . .

Forrester the Worried

Edit: EDENA, question: What (likely elven) areas other than Evereska did my hordes manage to raze during
the 5-year period before the Dragons entered the war?

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:49 AM

Are all of the Dragon's allied with the Faery folk? If so, I would like to know how the evil ones get along with
the good ones. I always thought that chromatics and metallics (and others) were more akin to Celestials
and Fiends, and less like mere racial competitors.

Just a thought,

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:54 AM

Ok, Toril is (was) a place of very powerful people. Many of these people had moved away to far off planes
but upon hearing their homeland was in danger of total destruction returned home with me.

At this point my group is mostly interested in stoping this whole thing, We are no opposing the Fairy folk
beucase they have the same goal but they are trying diplomacy. We don't believe it will work.

The Technomacy never began the war and truely has never made a serious offensive. The remaining forces
that are truely loyal to the Technomancy, (And I don't see much) we will leave and negotiate with further
after things setle down.

The elves started this and infact have cuased more damage than anything else. But they have also taken
large amounts of damage. At this point I believe the Elves are no longer a threat. Whether this is true
remains to be seen.

Forresters humaniods are a serious threat to the idea of stoping this war but it is hoped that we can
negotiate with them. We will try to get them to recognize the amount of damage this war has done to the
world, and that if it keeps up no one wins. And of course there is always bribery if that fails. If we can get
them to stop their attacks on the elves, But keep "on guard." That way the elves are no longer a threat.

The only force that simply cannot be negotiated with is the Mind-Flayers, We will have to destroy them. This
action is currently being planned. Hopefully to be executed by my PlaneWalkers, with the help of the
Technomacy.

-edit- Ok this game is additive. But I'm going to sleep have to be up early tomarrow don't destroy the
multiverse while I'm gone.


[This message has been edited by DarwinofMind (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:11 AM

Darwin -- we'll see . . . perhaps a short peace, er, I mean, a peace of indeterminate length is called for. I
want a few more details on how much of the surface we now control.

Hey. Weren't the dragons incredibly p.o.'d at the elves? They're going to join the elves' side just because
some humanoids are wreaking a little vengeance? We humanoids never did nothin' to THEM.

We don't get no respect.

Forrester Dangerfield

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:22 AM

Aye, Darwin speaks the truth, though the fires of battle were high at the beginning of the war, I would
believe that now that the great enemy (the Elves) have been battled back. Whether they recognize that they
have no place in interfering with the sovereignty of any other state remains to be seen. If they yield and
return to their own devices (and only their own devices), I will also throw my hat into the arena of
negotiations.

The problem, now, is whether or not the Humanoids will go along with this... I believe I will send a letter
straight to Forrester and ask that he attend the negotiations. I would also ask the dwarves to mediate, since
they claim neutrality. Also, I would have a few proposals:

(1a) The outer rim of the elven lands who took part in the war would be annexed by the humanoids as a
buffer zone between the Technocracy and the elven nations.

(1b) The specific races involved should be those that are suited to above ground battling: Ogres, Trolls,
Hobgoblins and Orcs. Others would be charged with helping out in the battle against the new enemy in the
Illithids in a defensive formation. We do not attack until we have hammered out an agreement.

(2a) Those who have been concerned with the defeat of the Illithids will be called to the table as well. As a
result, there should be an emphasis on the pacification of the Illithid-conquered territories.

(2b) The Technocracy would be able to send troops and other personell to aide the battle against the
Illithids since the humanoids should be able to hold back the elves if they believe they can break out.

(3a) I would still believe that the primary enemy of the Technomantic forces is still the elves, until they
capitulate, they will forever remain enemies.

I think that's it for now, plus, I think I should stop posting until at least tomorrow afternoon, we hardcores
are leaving those who work in a disadvantage.

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:43 AM

WAR UPDATE #5

- - -

The Elven Alliance (Total Power Level 5)

Spokesman: Blood Jester

Goal: World Domination

Nations:

Aglarond (civilization center, severe damage)
The Akanal (nation, moderate damage)
Candlekeep (city, heavy damage)
Chondath (nation, heavy damage)
All the elves of Cormanthyr (small settlements, severe damage to region)
Cormyr (civilization center, severe damage)
The Dalelands (small nations, severe damage)
Evereska (elven civilization center, destroyed, out of the war)
Evermeet (homeland of all the elves, light damage)
Halruaa (civilization center, destroyed, out of the war)
The Great Dale (nation, heavy damage)
The Elves of the High Forest (small countries, light damage)
Luruar (civilization center, severe damage, out of the war)
Lantan (island nation, light damage)
Lapaliiya (nation, light damage)
Luiren (halfling homeland, undamaged)
The Moonshaes (series of islands and nations, moderate damage)
Neverwinter (elven nation, heavy damage)
Rashemen (nation, severe damage)
Sespech (nation, light damage)
Shadowdale (civilization center, severe damage)
Unther (nation, moderate damage)
Westgate (city, heavy damage)

- Allies of the Elven Alliance

The Elven Imperial Navy of Wildspace (a vast armada of spelljammers, with many allies) (light to moderate
damage)

Goal (of the Elven Imperial Navy): World Domination and Domination of Realmspace

- - -

The Technomancer Confederation (Total Power Level 7)

Spokesmen: Lannon, Reprisal

Goal: Creating a dominant position in Faerun, Security, Freedom to continue their research

Nations:

Amn (nation, moderate damage)
Calimshan (civilization center, light damage)
Chessenta (nation, moderate damage)
Damara (humanoid nation, severe damage)
Dambrath (nation, light damage)
Estagund (nation, undamaged)
Impiltur (nation, heavy damage)
Luskan (seaport city, severe damage)
Mulhorand (civilization center, heavy damage)
Mulmaster (city state, moderate damage)
Murghorn (nation, moderate damage)
Narfell (humanoid nation, severe damage)
Nimbral (island mage nation, moderate damage)
Ruathym (island nation, undamaged)
Samorach (nation, light damage)
Tashalar (nation, undamaged)
Thar (humanoid nation, heavy damage)
Thazalhar (nation, heavy damage)
Thesk (nation, severe damage)
Thindol (nation, light damage)
Threskel (nation, moderate damage)
Turmish (nation, light damage)
Sembia (civilization center, light damage)
Var the Golden (civilization center, undamaged)
Ulgarth (nation, undamaged)
Zhentil Keep (city and confederation, light damage)

Allies of the Technomancer Confederation:

The humanoid hordes of the Underdark, and many surface lands: estimated at several million strong.
Primary types: kobolds, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, gnolls, bugbears

Goal (of the Humanoid Forces): Annihilation of the elves, territory for themselves

Spokesman for the Humanoids: Forrester

The Legions of the Githyanki
The Legions of the Githzerai

Spokesman for the Githyanki and allies: Gruffmug

Goal (of the Githyanki): To aid the humanoids against the Elven Alliance

Several vast fleets of ships, and hosts of mages and men from:

The continent of Zakhara, and many of the Nations therein.

Goal (of the Nations of Zakhara): Access to new technologies, profit

- - -

The Faerie Folk (Total Power Level 7)

Spokesman: Estlor

Goal: Peace (except for the Illithid - the goal there is annihilation)

Nations:

The Seelie Court, and the Hosts of Faerie

Allies of the Faerie Folk

A vast force of Outsiders from the Upper Planes, especially from Arborea
A vast force of animals and intelligent plants across all of Faerun

Almost all of the good dragons of Faerun (and some from other continents)
A greater number of the neutral dragons of Faerun (and some from other continents)
A few of the evil dragons of Faerun (and a couple from other continents)

((The remaining dragons are Neutral, or they attack all sides))

A large force from the Trackless Sea, consisting heavily of merfolk, dolphins, and other good or neutral
aligned sea creatures that desire peace.
A smaller force from the Inner Sea, consisting of the same elements.

((The sahuagin and other evil sea creatures have not taken sides))

Most of the dwarven nations of Faerun.

All of the surviving gnomish nations of Faerun.
(That's right, they have defected. Fed up with the Technomancy and what they call it's ruthless tactics,
they've opted to join with the Faerie, even if that means giving up their technology!)

Nearly all of the halflings of Faerun.


All the Allies of the Faerie Folk have the same goals as the Faerie Folk.

- - -

The Illithid (total power level 8)

Spokesmen: Phasmus

Goal: Annihilation or total subjugation of all other races, elimination of the sun

Nations:

All the illithid nations of Faerun, joined by all the illithid nations of the entire world of Toril

Allies of the Illithid

The enslaved phaerimm (an awesome power for destruction)
The enslaved wizards taken Below (thousands of them)
The enslaved humans, demi-humans, and humanoids taken Below (tens of thousands of them)
The artifacts taken from Myth Drannor (these are not sentient per se, but they are of awesome power)
The artifacts and knowledge taken from Candlekeep (again, not sentient, but of awesome power)
The artifacts and knowledge taken from Silverymoon (some of these of very extreme power)

- - -

The Planeswalkers

Spokesmen: Darwin of Mind, Riot Gear (Total Power Level 1)

Goal: Peace (and like the Faerie, the annihilation of the Illithid)

This is a large force of adventurers, opportunists, clerics hoping to convert a new world, mages seeking
spells, Outsiders either summoned or freely joining, and others come to the World of Toril from other
Spheres and other Realms.

It is the end of the 5th year of the War.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:01 AM

Edena -- earlier you said that Mystra was currently too weak to get revenge against the elves, and that what
they wreaked would last for millenia.

Given this fact, would it make sense that the Chosen of Mystra are allied with the elves?

Damn elves.

I suggest to my allies that it seems likely that most of the elves' allies are there ONLY because we're doing
so amazingly well -- and that if we move for peace, most of those allies will retreat back into the
netherspace or higher planes or whatnot. Back to wherever they came from. After all, we did nothing to p!ss
off Mystra -- the elves did. We didn't screw with the dwarves -- the elves did. We didn't suck away the
dragons' powers, or make it so that outsiders coming to this plane would die -- the elves did.

Peace for now, I *suggest*. (But I'll make an official decision after reading all your posts tomorrow . . . )

Oh -- I noted in a post on page 6 or 7 that we humanoids wanted to go artifact-collecting as well -- and I'm
guessing we could get to some of those places faster than the Illithids. Did we get anything tasty?

(Finally -- power level 7?! That's the Technocracy AND the Humanoid Hordes? Don't we outnumber the elves
and their allies at least 10 to 1, and outgun them as well? I had the sense that were it not for the Faere, we
could have taken the elves *easily*. I don't even know that they outmagic us by very much now that we
have those folks from Nimbral and the Gith on our side. I ask that you reconsider the power ratings given
these facts -- or assign different power ratings for the Technocracy and the Humanoids/Gith. Your call, of
course -- you are the DM! This whole thing is very cool, by the way.)

Forrester
Diplomat Extraordinaire
Noter of Fact that Elves from Evereska are Spicier Than Normal

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:14 AM

ACK! I am shocked, Edena, SHOCKED.

The goal of the humanoid hordes is hardly WORLD DOMINATION. I'm surprised at you.

No . . . our immediate goal is far simpler. Elimination of the Elvish Race. Once and for all. We might be able
to live peaceably with other races, once that blemish has been erased from the multiverse. Especially the
good humans of the Technomancy. We don't trust them completely, of course, but that's not the same thing
as saying we want to enslave them.

The whole World Domination thing is more Elven.

Forrester

(Oh -- if you didn't already, note my comments above about the power levels . . . )

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:15 AM

Excuse me. My mistake.
The Chosen do not take sides.
The Chosen DO try to save everything that can be saved from the ravages of this awful war (a war that
beggars even the Greyhawk War in terms of total destruction)

I will change the Goal of the Humanoids, as requested (chuckle)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:32 AM

(( (solemn look) Early this evening, this Thread stood at 109 Posts. Now it is at 210.
A gain of over 100 Posts in less than 6 hours.
In all my history online, I have never witnessed the like, and I am betting I will never witness it again.
I think this Thread has the potential to go for 1,000 Posts.
People love a good romp.

- - -

I wish to plead with the Moderators to leave this Thread open, and not lock it.
I wish to plead that it be left here on this forum (general RPG discussion,) where people will see it and post
to it.
Let us continue, and see where it goes.
That is my plea.

Yours Sincerely
Edena_of_Neith))

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

(Post 7) Thread One of the 1st IR

Blood Jester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:46 AM

World Domination? Somewhat of a paraphrase.

*sigh*
Oh well...

[OOC - Folks, work is a harsh mistress, I will be out of action until tonight. Try not to run away with the
world.]

Edena, the Elven forces consolidate. Those areas too savaged to be defensible are abandoned, all peoples
(not just Elves) are offered evacuation via Spelljammer, or Teleport w/o Error. The military's only duty during
these evacuations will be to protect the evacuees. Those areas that, by nature of the terrain/architecture are
strategically sound are reinforced (physically and magically, as well as with troops). All non-essential Elven
civilians are withdrawn to Evermeet. A dedicated campaign of rebuilding lost forces is begun. Since the
negotiations for 'trials' has broken down, we still have a few members of our High Mage Council left. They
begin to train replacements, and to research new magic. (Mystra may be upset with us, but Azuth is the god
of Magical Knowledge, our resarch and development of new spells, even the Big One, should sit well with
him.) To counter the strenuous efforts to build our forces, large celebrations are thrown weekly, courtship is
made especially...easy. (Elves have always been casual about breeding, we now try a little harder. )

If the Dwarves have truly decided to turn their backs on their oldest allies (even if there has been
disagreement, when all is said and done the Elves and Dwarves have always stood together), and are willing
to let another elder race fall to humans and orcs/goblinoids...That is their choice, their honor is washed away
with the blood of our people. They stood back from the beginning, little else is expected of them.

The Elves also turn (in secret) to an ignored race in the realms to request an alliance. A race that,
historically, only the elves treated with respect, and guardianship. A race that actually enjoyed a great
victory as a result of the Elven actions.
.
.
.
Halflings.

[More to come, but I really do lack time due to work.]

Blood Jester

zouron
Member
posted 04-10-2001 05:25 AM

Now my assult to eliminate the powerful spellcasters seem to have failed, now the time to gain a stronghold
of power for the magic forces, I call all those who wishes to preserver magic and strengthing themselves and
others under my banner, technomancy, elves fairie folks? now it is time to unleash the hordes of undead I
have gathered, educate more necromancers to fill out the ranks of undead (remember there are animate
spells in necromancers handbook below level 5), the goal is to secure a whole nation for our research no
more no less, this include the underdark directly below, I will even try ally myself with the drows for them to
keep peace in the underdark. I will attempt to recruit more spell casters from all sides that might wish to do
so, offering spells that will gain the edge for them as trade item. Perhaps you say undead are not a force to
take as serious? remember I am my allies can control even the most powerful undead to do our bidding and
my strong hold on the face and the demiplane created for this is specifically devoted to amges and and
commoners, yes we do have fields magically enhanced to provide more resources, I have been trading
resources for a some time. Now let us use it, using the best techniques availbel, combining magic
technomancy and the old ways of swords and magic weapons, the powers of the rest less undead. we do not
seek to win the war just secure our own. Dragons come join us and we will give spoils of gold and magic for
your hordes, destroy lour enemies with us and we will pay taxes to you.

Humanoids, we never liked you, but shamns and witchdocors come join our ranks we have the power, devote
yourself to the ways of power and magic and grasp the land for yourself, take revenge over the hyordes tha
banished you to the udnerdark so long ago.

the time for drawing the line in the sand is now, no longer will the I nor my allies have to live in uncertainty
of a silly war, having our fields libraries, caves and dwellings destroy, the dead will walk and take land for us.

beware world take your silly war elsewhere

Signed
zouron

buzzard
Member
posted 04-10-2001 08:16 AM

Geez, I just stop reading the net for a few hours and I'm 3 pages behind. What's a carrion eater to do?

OK as one of the Techies, I'll have to add my opinion as to direction. First off, it looks to me like the Elves
have paid enough for now. Their presence and influence outside of Evermeet is essentially gone. They have
paid pretty dearly for the damage they have done. We can allow a truce for the moment in the interest of
deflecting the Faeries wrath (and give us time to make a fleet of Ironclads to really teach those pointy eared
bozos a lesson). Once a fleet is built, we can decide if we wish to wipe them out. Elvish war galleys will be a
joke in the face of a broadside volley of cannon.

The Illithid scare me, and I beseech all right thinking races to at least investigate where they went. I can't
imagine that they're up to any good given the resources they acquired. An expedition must be sent down to
find out what we can. I say we ask for a truce with the Faerie, and start an expeditionary force of humans
(combat engineers, artillery, and snipers), Humanoids (cannon fodder), dwarves (sappers, and other combat
engineers), Githyanki (psionic support), and some small fairies for scouting. We have to find out what the
Illithids are up to. They would not have given up their foothold on the surface for no reason.

Militarily, I'd be concentrating on finding some of the best thieves and rangers in the land and training them
to be Sharpshooters. I don't imagine even Illithids will be too perky with a 50 cal piece of lead popping them
in the head, and the ranges are much greater than those of psionics. A well hidden group of snipers at 500
yards can wreak some serious havok. For close quarters work people are issues 8 and 10 gague shotguns
(double barrel breechloaders)

As for the Humanoids, I do value these allies. I also hope some of our ideas beyond technology have taken
root (the individual freedom, and capitalist notions). If not, we'll have to be cautious. In any case I don't
see how they can manage technical parity. The key points to a technical society are the engineers and
technicians, and they don't have them. Also, even if they did enslave some of these people,(which wouldn't
have made the alliance very happy) slaves don't work very well and certainly don't innovate.

All of the details of even railroad era technology are pretty complicated. Why do you think the Europeans
dominated the world for so long? Orneriness? Nope, it was superior logistics, technology, and organization.
None of which are hallmarks of the humanoids. As long as they cooperate with us we will provide arms and
support. We will not, however, be willing to establish factories for them, nor will be train them in all of the
technology. We mean no disrespect, but we've seen what has happened to us when we demonstrated our
technology in the past.

Buzzard

Gruffmug
Member
posted 04-10-2001 09:04 AM

Already being done buzzard of the technocracy. However, We ask for improved rifles for our intelligence as
we need better weapons to make our raid more effective.

We the Gith and scro alliance begin a ruthless assault on elven communities. Revenge for our defeat in the
Unhuman War. We unleash our most terrible weapon ,astral dragons. The skys are filled with spelljammers.
Landing parties of spellcasting Scro land and reinforce the humanoids and hope to receive better
Technology. We ask no quarter and give none.

We contact the "shou-long" kara-tur ministry.

The Gith begin raids into the underdark. Upon seeing the danger, all gith every where rally for fear of an
new illithiad empire. Gith are recalled from gasp "darksun" if possible. We will begin summoning outsiders to
fight for us. We try and free or kill the phaerimm and the mages during raids to weaken the illithiad
position. Astral hopping gith attempt to steal magic items from illithiads. We know what it is like to be under
the yoke of the illithiad. Anything would be better than that.

We also contact both the planeswalkers through Darwinofmind and the mages in seclusion through Zouron
to negotiate an nonaggression pack and possible alliance against the illithiad.

Off to class
Nok
"who is the master"
"Shunuff"

[This message has been edited by Gruffmug (edited 04-10-2001).]

DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-10-2001 09:24 AM

(Sorry, can't summon from DarkSun, Nothing enters or leaves Athis, it's sealed from the multiverse.
Otherwise I would have brought back some really good psionics.)

We are willing to ally ourselves with the gith for the destruction of the Mind-Flayers, if there can be an
agreement that the Elves keep Evermeet, It's all they seem to have left, and we look down on there
complete extermination. They will be monitored much like Germany after WW2, After that big blow they are
not to be trusted anymore.

Forrester. I read above that you have dug in, entrenched and moved to a defensive stance on your own.
This is exactly what the Planewalkers wished from you all along. We are quite willing to let you keep all
lands that you concured from the elves and we will work with the Technomancy to help you support
yourselves.



Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 09:39 AM

Ah, during my absence I was busy

My orders to the Fair Folk and their allies was to continue to push against the illithids and, in the meantime,
take no sides. Any that causes a serious threat to another faces combined guerilla tactics of the races.

And then we bring the Celestials in on our side, beseeching the gods of goodness and order to grant us
strength to overcome.

And, with the combined aid of the sages of the fairies, celestials, dragons, undersea folk, dwarves, halflings,
and the remaning druids that are not totally killed, I uncover the weapon that illithids truly fear.

The Annus.

This artifact (found in the PsiHB) is capable of destroying specific psionic targets (in addition to disrupting
psionics around the holder of the artifact). I can direct it to target the entire illithid race. This will, of course,
destroy the artifact, but it will remove the illithid.

Thus, I teleport them a message. It reads:

Leaders of the Illithid, hear my words. I, Estlor, leader of the Fair, do command you to return to the Underdark
immediately, surrendering all land and people you have captured along the way. Failure to do so will force me to
obliterate your entire race instantly. In the interest of balance I do not wish to do this, but refusal to heed my order
will leave me no choice.

Mark that I do have the Annus, an artifact of power. I will not hesitate to use it. You have been warned.

Should any illithid or illithid allies make an attempt at me directly, even if I'm not on the board to post as a
responce, I will immediately use the Annus to vaporize the entire illithid race (as I keep it with me at all
times). In the meantime, I see to it that the leaders of all the sides are made aware that the Fair have the
power to obliterate an entire faction in the span of a thought, once again requesting a peaceful meeting
between diplomats to come to some middle terms and end this senseless war.

To further back myself up, I attempt to send envoys to the elemental planes to gain the backing of the
elementals should any side directly assault my own.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

[This message has been edited by Estlor (edited 04-10-2001).]

DarwinofMind
Member
posted 04-10-2001 10:05 AM

Well, I am going to be leaving again. So don't anyone destroy all of Fearun while I'm gone.

Gruffmug
Member
posted 04-10-2001 10:31 AM

We do have access to Darksun. We control access to its crystal sphere ala spelljammer and repeated in
dragon crown or blackspine adventures I think. We always have.
We accept your condition as long as the elves never again enter wildspace.We destroy all elven communities
except Evermeet.
We secretly begin organization of the humanoid armies with Scro tactics. We also begin building a true
infrastructure for the humanoids with kobold assistance.
We enter into secret negotiations with the Thri-keen for military support.
The gith continue raiding but now they have rifles, demons, cannons and elementals supporting them.
We ask the fair to eliminate the illithiad once and for all. We may even secretly force thier hand by
mindcontroling several illithiad and making them attack the leader of the Fair Races.
If the Fair Folk fail in their task we secretly prepare the Witchlight Marauders for deployment. We don't live
in the realms(grins) There goes the neiborhood.
We also try to woo control of the gem dragons.
I repeat we will destroy the illithiad threat.

Nok
"who is the master"
"ShoNuff"

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 10:44 AM

Estlor, we withdrew from the surface quite some time ago. The Illithid military threat has appearantly
vanished from the face of Toril. Aside from some isolated spies and contacts, no one has seen or heard an
Illithid on the surface since a few weeks after the Month of Terror. The passages behind us were deliberately
blasted closed. I posted more detailed descriptions of where we are, what we have and what we're doing
yesterday, suffice to say we have been keeping ourselves busy during the remainder of this conflict. Ideally,
by now, our strongholds are warded against any such unpleasant outside influence, although I can not be
sure on that point. Anyone who attempts to confront us on our home turf will be doing so on our terms...
Exactly on our own terms...

Additionally:
The native leaders of the Githyanki forces are surprised to find an untrapped anonymous package delivered
to their camp. It contains several scrying-focuses and a hastily written note that reads simply "It wasn't us."
Some simple scrying procedures on the material provided reveal true perpetrator of the lich-queen's murder
[Mr. Gruffmug]. The validity of the information is easily verified. Presumably, the Githyanki are not amused.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"When in doubt, use duct tape."

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 10:55 AM

That is correct.
The illithid have completely vanished from the surface of Faerun!
They've vanished even from the Underdark, going down so deep even the deep dwarves have lost track of
them!

However, they have (as noted above) taken the captured phaerimm with them, along with captured mages,
and a lot of other beings.


The elves and their allied nations are in full scale retreat.
Behind a front line of defenders, and behind the cover of the Elven Imperial Navy, which protects the skies,
the following happens:

All the civilian population of the countries allied with the elves are evacuated to either Evermeet, Waterdeep,
Undermountain or to deeply hidden strategic places in the northwest part of Faerun, west of Anauroch and
north of the Inner Sea (where the Elven Alliance still dominates)
Of the fighting population that remains:

Aglarond consolidates it's remaining power in it's woodlands. Backing by the awesome power of the Simbul,
they refuse to budge.
The fighters of the Akanal retreat into the Chondalwood, making common cause with the elves there.
Candlekeep, along with all of it's remaining treasures, artifacts, and knowledge, is evacuated (and it's
artifacts go to Evermeet)
Chondath evacuates also into the Chondalwood, and makes common cause with the Akanal who fled there.
The elves of Cormanthyr flee to Evermeet.
The war wizards of Cormyr evacuate to Waterdeep, which is rebuilt as a massive fortress city.
Undermountain is occupied, and Halaster either kicked out or forced to join up. Undermountain is made into
a vast refuge/fortress for the Elven Alliance.
The people of the Dalelands flee to Shadowdale, which is defended by Elminster, Storm, and Sylune. There,
they build Shadowdale up until it is bristling with defenses pointed in every direction.
Evermeet is massively fortified, both above and below ground. A massive defense is on standby 24 hours a
day, in the sky over Evermeet, and another in the Underdark, below Evermeet, and another in the ocean,
around Evermeet, and another in the Ethereal and Astral Plane, where they touch Evermeet.
All the people of the Great Dale that can flee, do flee, west. To Shadowdale. Or south, to Aglarond.
Those that remain, hide.
The elves of the High Forest flee to Evermeet, but they leave terrible traps throughout the forest for
enemies. Their friends in the forest, who stay, keep watch.
Luruar concentrates it's surviving strength around Silverymoon, Mithral Hall, and Citadel Adbar (this is a case
where the dwarves are fighting for the Elven Alliance)
Lantan fortifies, and the Elven Imperial Navy sends ships to protect this island.
Lapaliiya fortifies.
Luiren, the halfling nations, has stood with the elves from the beginning, and isn't budging now. They
already occupy part of Dambrath, and now they fortify to the teeth.
The Moonshaes are a strategic set of islands, and the Elven Alliance fortifies them. Their people take cover
in the mountains of those islands.
Neverwinter, the other major elven settlement, is evacuated. Death traps of awesome power are left for any
who'd trespass into that region.
The Witches of Rashemen and their male barbarian allies aren't going anywhere, but they entrench into the
woods and underground.
Sespech is too far east to be evacuated, nor do they fully comprehend the threat. They ready themselves
for another dragon attack, and prepare to take as many of the enemy with them as possible.
Unther fortifies itself to the utmost degree, most of it's population heading into underground fortresses or
it's great, massively fortified cities.
Westgate is evacuated. It's people go to the haven of Waterdeep.

Across Faerun, elves flee from the various forests (such as the Forest of Tethyr) and small woodlands.

NOTE - The Chosen of Mystra make it clear that if Waterdeep, Undermountain, Shadowdale, Silverymoon, or
Aglarond (or ANY civilian refuge) are attacked again, they WILL fight. (If that happens, the Elven Alliance
goes up to Power Level 6, from Power Level 5)

There is a new development. The peoples of the Hordelands (think of the scythians and Mongols, with all
the attitude but with powerful magic to boot) have united.
They are gathering in great force in strategic places just east of Faerun, and it appears they are coming in.
(Before you underestimate them, remember the Mongol invasion wiped out everything from China to
Hungary to Persia, and they assailed clear to Constantinople, Egypt, India, and Japan.)

Estlor, the Annus will NOT destroy the illithid.
For the very good reason that the illithid, when they sacked Myth Drannor, Candlekeep, and Silverymoon,
found artifacts of their own that would counter such an attack.
Likewise, the illithid (and all other powers, for that matter) lack a single superweapon that will totally destroy
the other side.

EXCEPTION: The elves have Wrath of the Just. Fortunately, they haven't thrown it yet. (It would destroy
them as well as their enemies.)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 11:40 AM

Zouron is able to muster a massive host of the Undead, along with the ruthless among the humanoids.
He gets a big boost when a large force of the Unseelie (evil Faerie) come to join him.

His force should now be considered Power Level One.

There is now all out war in Realmspace, between the Elven Imperial Navy and the incoming Scro and
Githzerai Spelljamming Fleets.
It goes without saying that Selune and Luna are now involved in the war (the moons of Toril.)
The inhabitants of those moons take the side of the elves!! (they do not like the scro)

The illithid on the other worlds of Realmspace have heard the call of their brethren on Toril.
Although they lost many ships and many lives (because of the cessation of magic during the Month of
Terror) they still have formidable powers, and they send up all the spelljammers they can, and these (at the
least) maintain a watch in wildspace.
But vast numbers of illithid from the other worlds of Realmspace secretly psionically teleport to the deeps of
Toril, to join their kindred there.
This fact is NOT known to anyone but the illithid.
It boosts them to Power Level 10.

The Nations of Kara-Tur are divided.
Most announce their emnity to the elves, because the elves brought down the Month of Terror.
ALL of them announce their emnity to the Technomancy (they do not want that HERE, thank you.)
All of them announce their emnity to the humanoids.
They are terrified to hear that vast quantities of Outsiders (Celestials, Faerie, Githyanki, and Mystra knows
what else) have descended on the world.
Every nation in Kara-Tur begins massive war preparations.

The elves release a statement:

If a Witchlight is released on the surface of Toril:
They will awaken the Tarrasque.

(The elves, being an ancient race, have discovered where it is sleeping)

- - -

There are new developments.

The elves of Kara-Tur use their magic to transport, in mass, to the major elven bases in Faerun.
The elves of Kara-Tur make it clear THEY are standing with their brethren.
The elves of the other continents of Toril also jump in magically, massively reinforcing the Elven Alliance.
With them come a hoard of halflings, good aligned fey, and historical elf allies from those other continents.
This boosts the Elven Alliance to Power Level 6.

Kara-Tur is cold to the Technomancy, refuses to help them, and refuses to allow the Githzerai into their
lands.

Conversely ...

The elves of Zakhara REFUSE to help the elves in the north! They say that the savage elves are just that,
savages, and no problem of theirs.
Likewise, the halflings of Zakhara refuse to help.

But Zakhara, in general, eagerly allies with the Technomancy, and shares it's magic with them in return for
technological know-how.
Magical gates and teleportation ensure that massive amounts of aid come to the Technomancy from
Zakhara, and many formal treaties of alliance are signed.
The Githzerai (and even the Githyanki) are freely welcomed in Zakhara (although there is awe of the
Githyanki)
The Scro are also welcomed in Zakhara, so long as they behave themselves.
Many of the nations of Zakhara are willing to sign treaties of alliance with the Githzerai/Githyanki and the
Scro.
In return, they want spelljamming technology. And they want it now.
The aid from Zakhara boosts the Technomancy to Power Level 8.

- - -

Zouron, the elves send an ambassador to your host, offering alliance.
So does the Technomancy.
The Faerie do not, however.
Do you take sides?

The Githzerai find their unaided attacks against the elves fruitless.
The problem is: The Technomancy is currently retrenching and rebuilding, and avoiding (immediate) further
war with the elves (if what I've read in the posts above I've read accurately)
Although the githyanki, githzerai, and scro are pretty powerful (Up to Power Level 2), they are still no match
for the entire Elven Alliance (which is Power Level 6 now.)

The gith attacks into the Underdark are also fruitless.
The illithid are too deeply buried, too well hidden.
It will take the entire might of the Technomancy and Gith and Humanoids combined, to have any chance
against the illithid. If the Faerie Folk join in, they would have the edge. If everyone (theoretically) joined in
against the illithid, they'd have a big edge.
Even then, the war is going to rage for many years, and the destruction is going to be truly awful.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:18 PM

Well, okay, I missed the withdraw Fine, I'll keep the Annus as a defense should any of my troops be
attacked by illithids.

And, as per the PsiHB, the Annus could wipe out the entire illithid race, Edena. Turn them to dust where they
stand. That would fall under the large-scale target that destroys the artifact (it's a Greater Artifact, not a
lesser one). The point is moot, though, so I'll drop it. But I'll confess, all I'd use it for would be to spot clean
towns, mainly because that way I wouldn't wipe the Annus out as well.

At this point I think the most logical thing for my side to do is contact the elves directly (as, well, I AM an
elf) and attempt to dissuade them from doing any major world-destructive matters. We'd all like to have a
world to RETURN to when this senseless battle is over with. Essentially I make a plea to anyone on that side
that will listen that if they admit the Month of Terror was an overreaction and commit themselves to
rebuilding the damage they do, they could easily join the side of peace and the Fair forces and force a truce.

That said, since the illithid are underground again, I'll turn to the rulers of the elementals in an attempt to
persuade them to use their powers to try and stall, stimie, and generally befuddle all the combatant forces.
Without access to spell-jamming ships, I'm pretty tapped out.

HOWEVER, since the gnomes did defect to my side, I instruct them on ways to use their technology to build
enviro-friendly devices for protection, helping to outfit the troops with better armor and shields necessary to
withstand all the forces.

Another drastic step the side takes is to use its wizards to open a temporary portal to Krynn, allowing me to
make diplomatic contact with the Kender and Tinker Gnomes there (yes, this war is just about to take a turn
for the worse). I may not have any drastic world-altering powers at my side, but I make a few offers.

1. I'll set the Kender loose in the technomancer cities. Imagine the damage that would be done by a horde
of handlers in those techno-cities.

2. I'll import tinker gnomes to work incognito, pretending to be gnomes that are once again loyal to the
technomancer ways. However, since all their stuff malfunctions (at best) or blows up (at worst), well, that
should cripple the technomancers.

I also direct my forces to stave the humanoid advances off as a show of good faith to the elves should they
decide to work for global peace on Toril.

My last action is to have the wizards of the gnomes, halflings, dwarves, and metallic dragons (taking other
forms) teleport around the globe, spreading propaganda among the downtrodden sick of the fighting and
senseless wars, telling them to support the Fair and to call for their leaders to put aside their weapons and
work for peace. My ultimate hope is to sway as much of the population against the war as possible.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

maddman75
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:24 PM

From the Anauroch wastes, a horde of Demons reappear!

During the Month of Terror, the demons trapped in Myth Drannor and kept from summoning more of thier
kind were freed. They fled into the deserts and started summoning more and more of thier kind.

Graz'lorath, a powerful Balor sorcerer, has opened a permenant gate, allowing him to conscript more troops
from the Abyss.

They approach both the Technocracy and the humanoids, offering to side with whoever will teach them to
make the weapons.

They attack the faeires on sight though, seeking to slay any celestial that they can.

Thier goals are to aquire the weaponry of the technologists. They currently have a hold in an abandoned
Netherese keep deep in the desert. They have also prepared several other holds in remote locations should
this place be beseiged (remember, we can teleport at will )

Any takers?

------------------
"If I ever get a tumor I'm gonna name it Marla."


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Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:26 PM

Only problem with that, man, is if you read back, all Outsiders on Toril during the Month of Terror either died
or were sent screaming back home.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

maddman75
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:36 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Estlor:
Only problem with that, man, is if you read back, all Outsiders on Toril during the Month of
Terror either died or were sent screaming back home.



Crap, I suppose you are right

Well, the I retract my move.

The fiends are still drooling to get into this war and get their hands on thier weapons. They will send magical
messages to the leaders of the technocracy, humanoids, mind flayers, and Zuron's necromancers, promising
aid in the war in exchange for the weaponry and the knowledge on how to use it. If your forces don't have
the knowledge, just capture someone who does. We can be VERY persuasive.

Alliance with demons or devils should be worth at least 2 power ratings, don't you think? And we PROMISE to
leave after the war is over. The devils will even sign a contract to that effect.

------------------
"If I ever get a tumor I'm gonna name it Marla."

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:36 PM


quote:

Originally posted by buzzard:

. . . Humanoids (cannon fodder) . . .

As for the Humanoids, I do value these allies. I also hope some of our ideas beyond
technology have taken root (the individual freedom, and capitalist notions). If not, we'll have
to be cautious. In any case I don't see how they can manage technical parity. The key points
to a technical society are the engineers and technicians, and they don't have them. Also,
even if they did enslave some of these people,(which wouldn't have made the alliance very
happy) slaves don't work very well and certainly don't innovate.

All of the details of even railroad era technology are pretty complicated. Why do you think
the Europeans dominated the world for so long? Orneriness? Nope, it was superior logistics,
technology, and organization. None of which are hallmarks of the humanoids. As long as they
cooperate with us we will provide arms and support. We will not, however, be willing to
establish factories for them, nor will be train them in all of the technology. We mean no
disrespect, but we've seen what has happened to us when we demonstrated our technology
in the past.

Buzzard


Cannon fodder indeed. What makes a human with a gun any more important than an orc with one?

As far as not having any engineers -- what makes you say *that*? Our ten or so races number in the
MILLIONS when put together -- can you say the same? Our average intelligence is no less than yours. And
finally, while the orcs and gnolls and bugbears and hobgoblins do the heavy work of slaying elves (with our
goblins playing the part of scouts/snipers/etc., as they are best suited for it), our kobolds (well, mostly
kobolds) are *quite* well organized and *quite* focused engineers.

Sorry . . . but a Wartime Economy is not one that needs vast amounts of personal freedom in order to
bloom. Over the long haul, it is necessary -- in the short, efficiency is where it's at. And there's no reason
that we're less efficient than you are.

You bring up one relevant point: slaves. Edena, actually, was the one who mentioned slaves, not I. The idea
that we could trust the weak and wispy elves to do any important labor is laughable. They're used more for
food than anything else. Our numbers are considerable enough that WE can work in the factories and in the
mines, as opposed to using slave labor.

You are correct that even given all of this, we probably do not have technological parity (even with our secret
kobold factories churning and developing . . . ). And that's fine. But you can't let the cat half out of the bag,
my good man. You turned to us to defend you when the elves were putting your cities in ruins. If you think
that you could keep all of your secrets from us, or if you think that now that we've saved you, we're
EXPENDABLE, that we're CANNON FODDER . . . well, let's not let it come to that.

You can't let the genie half out of the bottle. Maybe you could if it were as though you were the US and we
were Israel -- you have both a technological advantage and a vast numerical one. Not the case here. We
have the numbers to *speed up* development, to hide factories in the Underdark where Dragons cannot
easily get to them.

I urge you, Technomancy allies, do not quake in fear at the idea of uniting with my people. It is elven
heads we want, not yours. Human doesn't taste very good anyway.

Forrester
Friend of the Technomancy
He of Less-That-Infinite-Patience


Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:38 PM

Well, you heard Estlor.
He has welcomed the kender and tinker gnomes into Toril.
The tinker gnomes aren't going to be of much use.
But the kender are another matter.

This is literally a case of pandora's box being open and all the contents spilled out.
The kender EAGERLY pile into every city, every town, crawl up into every machine, every device, every place
in the world that will welcome them (and every place that doesn't welcome them, too.)

There is amazement at these fearless, childlike beings from another world, which rapidly turns into other,
less good emotions.

The Dragon Overlords of Ansalon are now aware that there is this new world they could take for their own.
Please remember that THESE dragons make average dragons look like lizards in comparison.
ONE of them is a match for an entire nation.

The Red Marauder sends a message to Toril - submit to me, and live. Resist, and die.
Beryl sends a message to Evermeet - submit your island to me, or die.
The Storm Over Krynn actually comes to the World of Toril, looking for Kitiara. He does not find her, but he
does start building a massive force of draconians in some distant corner of Toril where nobody will notice.
All the other Dragon Overlords pretty much send the same message to Toril: Prepare to be conquered.
Submit, and live. Resist, and die.
The Knights of Takhisis are all too happy to come to Toril with it's wealth of good lands, away from their own
ravaged world.
The draconians see Toril as a fruit ripe to be plucked and devoured.
A lot of other major power groups take a good luck at Toril.
For instance, the minotaurs see vast oceans to conquer.

But the kender are everywhere, and - now having magic - are quite capable of defending themselves.

(evil grin)

The kender finally decide they are related to the elves, claiming that Balifor, their ancestor, was partially
elven and friends with Silvanos, the first elven lord of Silvanesti.
The kender, join the Elven Alliance!
This boosts the Elven Alliance to Power Level 7.

Kender are great at sabotage. And kender can get in ANYWHERE (there is no such thing as a lock-proof
kender.)
The technomancy suffers massive damage as the kender sabotage and derail vast amounts of their
infrastruction and machinery.
When the Technomancy attempts to exterminate the kender, they find this impossible. Kender are very
good at hiding, very good at escape, and very capable of getting out of almost any situation, no matter how
dire.

Remember, it was the Faerie Folk who let the kender in.

- - -

Update. The demons and devils CAN now return to Toril.
It has now been at least 2 or 3 years since the Month of Terror.
So, if Maddman wishes to summon a hoard of evil Outsiders and inflict them on the world, he is free to do
so.
Just remember, though, be careful what you ask for, with the Fiends. You may just get it.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:39 PM

The humanoids will be first to announce that they are willing to make a Deal with the Devil(s).

It is hardly as though the outer-fiends have greater enmity towards *us* than towards the elven menace,
after all.

We will, of course, make absolutely sure that this contract is IRONCLAD. Our best kobold sorcerers will go
over it with Wishes to make sure there are no loopholes. True Names will be exchanged. Blood will be
exchanged.

Excellent. We welcome you to the fold.



Bran Blackbyrd
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:39 PM

And, indeed, if a mass of demons starts to appear the celestials on our side are bound to clue in their
comrades back home. They would pull in a sizeable host of their own to balance, or possibly overpower the
influx of evil outsiders.

------------------
Jason "Warlocke" Lewis
----------------------
DM: You see there are orcs camped out in the chasm ahead of you.
Me: Do they have multiple Orc-Chasms?
Warlocke's Realm

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:42 PM

Notes from the Illithid...

Our research continues, and we use what knowledge can be gained from our planar contacts to bolster our
efforts. Perhaps the astrologers of the surface note that the nights are getting longer than they should be,
or the manifestation of strange long-lasting, unpredicted eclipses...
Perhaps not.

We are treating the phaerimm well, despite their enslavement. They are being so very helpful, and we doubt
that we would find their brains appetizing anyway. We have made arrangements for the phaerimm, oh yes.
In the unlikely event that we are successfully opposed by the vile surface dwellers... we will leave and the
arcane abominations will have everything they need to take up the war against the beings of Toril on their
own. They are more than capable of retaining control of our thralls. Without our guiding influence, the
unleashed wrath of the phaerimm will make the Illithid emergence during the Month of Terror seem like a
company picnic. Of course, again, none of you have access to this information.

The phaerimm are well aware of what would have become of them had they been encountered by a race less
likely to appreciate their unique gifts. Their hatred of life unlike themselves is a match for our own... as may
be their cunning.

We like to think of them as an insurance policy...

If we loose, so do you...


Regards,

Phasmus T. Tapefiend

Don'Calamari
Speaker-To-Thralls
Public Representative of the Illithid
Horde-Master 1st Class

Enkhidu
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:43 PM

Oh my word...

A gentle minded philosopher holes himself up for a year in an extremely remote mountain cabin, and the
world goes to pot.

Oh well...

As a note, something everyone most likely missed when Estlor's faction came together was that combined
effect of putting Gnomish ingenuity with Dwarvish know how (and manufacturing capabilities!). Imagine all of
the Technocracy's technology in the hands of a race who makes things that really work.

Scary thought...

Additionally... one thing the Illithids CANNOT overcome is gravity, and Dwarves have been known to cause
some pretty serious cave ins...

I tell you, all of this war and all destroying Toril in it's entirety... might just be enough to get a certain
Overgod upset...

I think I'll head back to the mountains...

Enkhidu

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:45 PM

Kender?! Oh, RIGHT. As if Kender are any more talented at wreaking havoc than a goblin with a
double-barreled shotgun.

Remember that we have *some* magic as well. Technology-enhanced "Alarm" spells, for one. I would say
that after the first week or two of this nonsense, a great deal of kender die to boobytrapped equipment.

They aren't freaking IMPS or GREMLINS for pete's sake! Those would be able to cause a LOT more damage.

Oh, wait. We just made an alliance with Imps and Gremlins, among others. That is, the Demons and Devils.

Hey, you guys. Get to work!
-------------

Edena -- can you give us some (very approximate) total #s as to the size of each force? I'm curious as to
humanoid numbers vs. Technomancy numbers, just to confirm that what I've been telling buzzard is true
(that especially since the war, we vastly outnumber them, so they'd better not get too big for their britches).

Also: Our diplomats have approached the evil creatures of the sea (such as Sauhaugin) and shown them
some wonderful undersea weapons (like new spearguns and such), in an effort to get them to join us. We
have also approached the Evilest of Dragons in an effort to get them to join us -- we can offer them great
power -- GREAT power -- and after all, their accursed enemies are opposed to us. If they do not take a side
in this conflict, they will find themselves at a disadvantage.

Forrester

Edit: We also start building anti-air guns (damned dragons), and are working as well on Ironclads and, heh
heh, submarines. And I reiterate -- we are ENTRENCHING. Big mostly-underground fortresses, with both
magic AND technology to defend ourselves. Our humanoids will help build such fortresses for the
Technomancy cities, should they hear my plea:

People of the Technomancy -- only with FULL cooperation can we hope to stem the tide of our enemies. I
beseech you, let us work together fully and totally.


[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:47 PM

I have a piece of news that is going to sit badly with the Faerie Folk, and the Technomancy.
The dwarves have switched sides!
The dwarves declare they in alliance with the elves.
This happens instantaneously, all across Faerun.

The dwarven armies with the Faerie Folk, abandon them.

Shortly thereafter, the Gnomes declare they are allied with the dwarves, and that they will share their
technology with them.

Shortly after that, the dwarves begin an all out attack on the Technomancy.
So do the gnomes.

As if seizing the moment, the Tuigan hordes attack the Technomancy from the east. Hundreds of thousands
of savage warriors and mages come screaming in.

- - -

Technomancy spies report the elves are doing something strange. What it is they are doing, is not quite
clear, but that it involves powerful magic, is.

The dwarves, gnomes, and kender continue their attack on the Technomancy, and they are now pleading
with the Faerie Folk for help.
The dwarves point out to the Faerie Folk that the Technomancy has allied with Fiends from the Lower Planes,
and that this indicates a mentality that must be stopped at all costs.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:56 PM

Many of the evil dragons throw their lot in with the Technomancy at this point.
The Sahuagin throw their lot in with the Technomancy at this point.
Many other evil sea creatures join the Technomancy.

I cannot give you numbers, only power levels.
They are as follows:

The Elven Alliance: 7 (up from 5)
The Technomancy: 9 (up from 7)
The Faerie Folk: 7 (down from 8)
The Illithid: 10
The Planeswalkers: 2
Zouron's Army 1

People are now referring to this war as The War to End All Wars.

Bran Blackbyrd
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:56 PM

A group of our wisest and most powerful Druid Elders, in conjunction with the nature spirits, with the aid of
some of the artifacts we've recovered, are meditating in an attempt to use nature itself as a spy. Their
ultimate goal is to create an immense network of intelligent (and perhaps even non-intelligent) plants, and
creatures that can communicate with our leaders, in an instant, over vast distances. The advantage this has
over regular "spying and scrying" is that nature is everywhere, and you cannot keep it out. To aid in this
endeavor we are also cultivating a new form of intelligent tree and plant life that will grow faster than
anything seen before. And only we will have a prayer of controlling it. If all goes well we will restore the
deforested areas and have an unparallelled spy network in one fell swoop.
If nothing else, we refuse to be taken be surprise!

------------------
Jason "Warlocke" Lewis
----------------------
DM: You see there are orcs camped out in the chasm ahead of you.
Me: Do they have multiple Orc-Chasms?
Warlocke's Realm

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:58 PM

Edena -- immediate negotiations with the hordes from the east. I believe that our orcish barbarians have far
more in common with them than the wispy elfie-welfies. FAR more in common.

As it is, though, we're just going to hold our ground. I already said we're entrenched. Let them run through
the rifle fire and the cannons and the traps we've laid. Our technonology is stronger, as you pointed out long
ago, because we don't care about silly things like pollution. Much stronger.

And we would not be calling for demon and devil aid for our DEFENSE had the outsiders (many killed by the
elves) had been called for OFFENSE.

Humanoids continue to get no respect. Well, you guys are about to find out how hard it is to storm
fortresses against those with machine guns.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:59 PM

Bran, the druids of Zakhara, Kara-Tur, and the Hordelands are with you at once (there aren't any druids left
in Faerun ...)
The druids on other continents and in the seas will help.

The Faerie Folk almost immediately realize what you are doing, and offer to ally with you.

Bran, with the druidical power, you immediately have a Power Ranking of 2, and it is growing fast.

- - -

The Faerie Folk are able to confirm what the elves are doing.
They are ... atoning.
They are attempting to rebuild ruined monuments, regrow forests, and otherwise give back to the world.
They are trying to make up for the spell they cast, trying to heal and aid the Weave in recovery.

- - -

The Tuigan are not interested in parley. The Technomancy diplomats are returned to the Technomancy
minus their heads.
The Tuigan army is interested in slaughter.
IMMEDIATE and unconditional surrender MIGHT be met with mercy (that is, you might be allowed to live.)
I stress the might. The Tuigan say that the Technomancy must have offended the Gods, for they happen to
be the victims of this massive onslaught. (If that logic sounds strange, it was what Genghis Khan said.)

The Tuigan have a power level of 3.

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

maddman75
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:01 PM

The fiends sign a contract with Forresters foes to leave the Realms once

1)The technological weaponry and the knowledge of how to make them is in thier hands.
2)The war is over.

I'm assuming (since a contract is involved) that you are signing with the devils.

They indeed start working at the factories, both defending them and learning the secrest of making them.

What do you know? Kender tastes just like chicken?

They also send five Pit Fiends to serve as battlefield generals for the humanoids, as well as several
squadrons of Abishai shock troops.

The demons are not happy about this - they don't want the devils to get the weapons. They send magical
messages to the leaders of ALL factions - we must have the weapons, we will win your war for you!

------------------
"If I ever get a tumor I'm gonna name it Marla."

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:05 PM

Zouron! I invite you and your legions of undead to our side. Our shamans have always had far more in
common with you than the faerae folk. Just look at all of those "ae"'s! Give us undead birds to carry bombs
to drop upon our approaching enemies, undead -- well, just lots of undead. They'll be a lot more dead to
raise after the war!

Planeswalkers! You did initially say that you joined the Technomancy. We want PEACE, now that the elves
have been punished for THEIR month of TERROR! And our spies say that they plan on perhaps raising a
Tarrasque! THEY continue this war -- THEY started this war! Not us! We are protecting ourselves, just as we
always have. Do not let our humanoid skin make you think that we do not deserve aid in this time of
troubles. Please, join our side and help us *defend* ourselves against the elven horde.

Faerie Folk! You asked us for peace -- we now want PEACE! You cannot deny that the elves started this war,
and that by arrogantly ripping Magic from the universe for a month, they deserved punishment! We are
happy with what we have conquered, and now seek an end to hostilities. Please, if you will not help us, at
least do not help our enemies. They are the agressors here.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:10 PM

I am sorry to say this, but if the Technomancy signs with the devils, the demons join the elves at once.
Demons will not work with devils! They are enemies!!!

This mass inrushing of the Outsiders boosts the Technomancy to Power Level 9.
I am assuming the elves refuse to treat with the demons.
So, the demons go on an independent rampage against everyone, but especially the Technomancy.

The Technomancy is now under attack by the demons, the dwarves, the gnomes, the kender, and the
Tuigan Hordes.
However, it is reasonable to assume the Technomancy is holding it's own. It is very powerful, and the devils
make it more powerful, and the Githyanki/Githzerai/Scro make it more powerful, and the help from Zakhara
is pouring in.

There is an unconfirmed rumor that forces from the World of Oerth have entered the war.
These rumors cannot be confirmed.

Since the Dragon Overlords of Krynn have not been answered, they decide that when the time is ripe to
attack Toril, they will teach it a lesson it will never forget.

((Need to go AFK for a while. Be back later to assess all new posts (chuckle) ))

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:13 PM

Maddman -- one other element in the contract. We call the shots -- our numbers are greater and we've
been in the war longer. And I couldn't help but notice that in your very short description of the contract, you
left open the possibility of TURNING AGAINST US, i.e., you don't leave until "The War Is Over" -- you could
attack us and it would mean the war continued.

We (that is, you and I, out-of-character) don't have to get down into the nitty gritty. Here's my guidelines:

1) You get the armaments, if not all of the technology. (Work on that yourself.)
2) You help US, the HUMANOIDS. And ONLY US. And that's standard "help" . . not "help you die" or any such
killer-DM nonsense.
3) We have the most input in deciding when to attack/defend, or whatnot. So in other words, if we need a
(temporary) peace, you'll go along with it for awhile. A temporary peace is not an End to the War, of course.

Sound reasonable?

Forrester the Reasonable

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:14 PM

Dregoth the Undead ruler of New Giustenal uses the Planar Gate to enter Toril.

He offers his services to the technomancy, He offers psionic knowledge and defiler magic as well as the
services of Athasian warriors....

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:21 PM

Well, seeing that I am in some way guilty of letting the dragon overlords in, I order the Fairies that this war
has become a place of no peace. It is now a matter of choosing which side you would rather have control a
reshaped Toril. Humanoids and corrupt humans or elves, gnomes, dwarves, and the like.

I call a meeting between myself, Oberon, Titania, the sea people's leaders, the strongest dragons, and the
Celestials. We agree we would rather see the elves, seeking atonement, win this war, than the humanoids.
As such, I send a message to the leaders of the elven Alliance stating the Fair will join them if they officially
refuse the help of the demons (as celestials and demons don't work well together).

Having done so, I go forth to answer to the Dragon Lords, hoping I can dissuade them from destroying Toril
and convince them that there is nothing they seek here. I will attempt to show them the violence and pain
suffered from this war and how Toril is doomed, making Toril seem as debased a place as possible.

I'll even go as far as to sacrific the PC Estlor's life if it means stopping the Dragon Lords from invading. It's
the least I can do for unleashing them on an unsuspecting world.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:23 PM

Edena -- our power level was *already* 9, after the evil sea creatures and evil dragons joined us.

So are we boosted up to 11 now? Booyah!

Two notes:

1) Demons don't want to work with devils, but they'll work with elves? And Kender? Or at least offer their
services?!

2) Devils with machine guns > than demons without. We mock them. Behind their backs.

3) I indeed send a representative to the Draconians. Clearly, they would be more interested in allying with
humanoids than with stinky elves. We'd like to negotiate a temporary peace/alliance, to crush the evil elven
onslaught. After all, see our nifty little guns?

Let us know when the pathetic barbarian hordes waving their little pointy sticks have been crushed by our
millions of well-armed and entrenched humanoids. Power level "3" my pasty humanoid butt. We outnumber
them five-fold, perhaps ten-fold, and their spears are no match for our magic-enhanced gunnery. And
they're stupid enough to storm US?

Let me know what they taste like.

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:28 PM

Fools...
Do you realize what you have done? By summoning the blood war to Toril you have doomed us all... There
will be nothing left for us to dominate, save a lifeless wasteland.

In the underdark, while their opposition is otherwise occupied, the Illithid make a large, unexpected push,
expanding and fortifying their holdings as much and as safely as possible. They avoid areas claimed by
those untainted by the lower planes. They do not approach the surface in their expansion, and they seal
themselves in once again when they finish.

The efforts to plunge the world of Toril into eternal night are redoubled, now more in hopes of stopping the
conflict before it is too late than in securing instant mastery of the world.

A message written in an unnatural-looking hand appears in the living quarters of the head members of all
factions not allied with the outsiders. It reads the same for each.

"Our goals diverge on many things... but we suspect you will agree that having Toril overrun by the forces of
the lower planes benefits no one. We are willing to offer you our assistance solely where the elimination of
those vile creatures and their associates is concerned. We will act with hostility neither toward you, nor toward
your other enemies. Think about it... loudly. If you are interested in negotiating on these terms, we will
know. A representative will contact you shortly after a decision is reached between the other leaders of your
forces.

Regards,

The Illithid"

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:28 PM

Forrester, don't forget the elves have both the gnomes and the dwarves on their side now. That means
they'll probably win an arms race if it's technology you want to talk about

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

[This message has been edited by Estlor (edited 04-10-2001).]

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:35 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Estlor:
Well, seeing that I am in some way guilty of letting the dragon overlords in, I order the
Fairies that this war has become a place of no peace. It is now a matter of choosing which
side you would rather have control a reshaped Toril. Humanoids and corrupt humans or elves,
gnomes, dwarves, and the like.

I call a meeting between myself, Oberon, Titania, the sea people's leaders, the strongest
dragons, and the Celestials. We agree we would rather see the elves, seeking atonement,
win this war, than the humanoids. As such, I send a message to the leaders of the elven
Alliance stating the Fair will join them if they officially refuse the help of the demons (as
celestials and demons don't work well together).

Having done so, I go forth to answer to the Dragon Lords, hoping I can dissuade them from
destroying Toril and convince them that there is nothing they seek here. I will attempt to
show them the violence and pain suffered from this war and how Toril is doomed, making
Toril seem as debased a place as possible.

I'll even go as far as to sacrific the PC Estlor's life if it means stopping the Dragon Lords from
invading. It's the least I can do for unleashing them on an unsuspecting world.



Hah! Typical Weak-Folk talk. I offer the DragonLords Evermeet should they help us wipe the elves off the
face of the planet. And other elven lands besides. The weak Fae talk of peace -- supposedly -- while waging
war on the Technomancy. They atone?! ATONE? By killing humanoids, whose only sin was to DEFEND against
an UNWARRANTED ATTACK?!

Typical elf-logic. As usual.

The elves offer the Dragonlords nothing. I offer them seas rich with elven blood.

Meanwhile, our Gith friends are working on a way to do to Psionics what the foolish elves did to Magic -- but
instead of doing it for a month, only for a day, or an hour, or a minute. A winking on and off of psionic
energy, so to speak. High Psionics if you will. Such a power would likely not do much to harm the illithids . . .
but it would likely free many of the Phaerimm. Perhaps temporarily, perhaps not.

Forrester

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:44 PM

Estlor: Note Edena's comments below. Gnomish technology -- fah! As Edena notes below, the magic/techno
edge we have kicks butt.

And how many humanoids are there compared to gnomes and dwarves? We outnumber you guys, sorry . . .
and we've been going for five years straight. The dwarves just got into this -- and the gnomes had to desert
their factories.

You'll be able to catch up eventually, perhaps (or at least stay roughly the same distance behind), but we
have the edge now.

Cannot the gnomes come to an understanding with us? It is the elves that started this whole mess -- and
now they ally with them?!

quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:
It should be becoming obvious to all sides that:

--- The gnomes aren't doing that much damage with their non-magical weapons, powerful
though they are.
--- The industrialized nations aren't doing that much damage with their non-magical
weapons, powerful though they are.
--- The elves and druids, and their allies, aren't doing that much damage with their
non-magical weapons, powerful though they are.

It is the mages who are doing the worst damage.

--- They are the ones combining magic and technology to make technomagic weapons.
--- They are the ones who are (on the Technomancy side) shouting the glories of technology,
then secretly using it to boost their magical powers.
--- They are the ones who are summoning the Outsiders.
--- They are the ones who got the dragons involved in the war, and continue to keep them
involved.





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Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?

(Post 8) Thread One of the 1st IR

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:47 PM

Ah, but Forrester, Edena's comments don't apply to a group of gnomes, dwarves, AND elves.

Gnomes supply the brains.
Dwarves supply the know-how.
Elves supply the magic.

That, my friend, is a dangerous combination.

As for the Dragon Overlords, if you want to abandon your armies to come to Krynn with me to talk to them,
so be it - but who will lead in your stead? I'd be more than willing to delay the meeting with the Overlords for
some one-on-one humanoid to elven bard/bladesinger competition

*evil grin*

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:52 PM

Dregeth (The Burned Man) -- we welcome you! Will you help us beat back the elven and faerae menace?!

If you don't mind, we'd like to see what we can do with your Defiler Magic, when combined with our
technology.

Edena -- let me know when we've got poison gas, germ warfare, and/or the A-bomb .

Forrester
Enjoying The Moment (While It Lasts?)

You know, it occurs to me that there's only two people on the side of the stupid elves/fae, and a bunch on
the side of the technomancy. That should count for somethin'.


Edit: ESTLOR: Last time I checked, the elves didn't LIKE technomagic. Remember the big war and stuff they
started? And now they're going to be eager participants? And I can send a rep to talk to the Dragonlords. I
wouldn't be surprised if they took the heads of those they disagreed with.

So you're going in person, eh? Hmmm.

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:58 PM

If you check back, the issues the elves had were about it defiling nature. If the oversee it, as was the PC
Estlor's ultimate goal, a common ground could be found such that environmentally-friendly non-defiling
technology could be created. Besides, if you check a few posts back, I stated the gnomes and dwarves, while
under my command, went about creating techno-defenses that were fer more advanced than anything yet
built.

Your puny guns can't hurt what they can't hit.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:05 PM

Hah! I read your post that said the gnomes/dwarves would TRY to build better techno-defenses than
anything ever built.

How they could do that so quickly and easily is another question, as both sides *just* entered the war.

So you're working on techno-defenses, though? Great. Because right now your minions are on the *attack*.
Build all of the wonderful fortifications you want (though I still think it'll take a little while for you to match us
-- we have a big jump on you, *and* greater numbers). That's not going to help you retake elven lost
ground.

And you don't speak for the elves or dwarves (or gnomes?) anyway, Estlor. You speak for the Faerie folk.
Gettin' too big for your britches, Mister Man .

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:12 PM

Never said I was speaking for anyone (yet)

The only person I speak for is myself. And you know something, isn't it always the lone party of PCs that
defies the odds and wins the war?

Assuming I survive my confrontation with the Dragon Overlords, I fully know where I'll go and who I'll seek
to bring some order to the chaos.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Bran Blackbyrd
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:16 PM

I'll gladly join my Druidic forces with that of Estlor and the Faerie Folk, in truth we have always been one
force working for the same cause. I'm just another footsoldier for Nature and peace.

------------------
Jason "Warlocke" Lewis
----------------------
DM: You see there are orcs camped out in the chasm ahead of you.
Me: Do they have multiple Orc-Chasms?
Warlocke's Realm

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:19 PM

Yes. I and my minions will aid you, Forrester...

Allow me to assume controll of one of your mayor strongholds and I will start working on it. We should
recreate a better Planar Gate from Toril.

The Athasians will flock at the chance to enter this world. You will find our magic much easier to learn, and it
has only slight side-effects.

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:19 PM

Well Bran, my plan is this - it's called, "Lesser of Two evils." I'd say the humanoids and their devil allies are
the greater threat, meaning a temporary alliance with the elves is at hand while I try to stop the Dragon
Overlords.

After that, well, if I'm still alive in this game I'm going to try and bring back some big help.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:26 PM

Accursed druids. We'll dance on your groves.

Forrester signing off until at least 7PM EST. That's a little less than 4 hours from now.

As has been said before, don't destroy the multiverse while I'm gone.

Edena -- I confess I don't know enough about FR or Greyhawk to know who to go to for help. But with all of
my resources (especially the devils), my character would.
Somebody said something about Iuz's humanoid minions before, from Oerth (correct?) . . . perhaps he'd be
interested in giving us a hand.

Oh. The Evil Giants haven't been invited into the fray yet -- nor the Beholders or other underworldly
abberations. While they aren't exactly going to be forward troops, I will certainly invite them to be on my
side. Some have to be skittish about the Illithid, after all -- an alliance would do them good.

Hmmm. Orcs carry rifles . . . I wonder what Ogres and Giants carry? Cannons? Heh heh heh.

Forrester
Ah'll Be Bahck.

Alzem Dalcama
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:37 PM

Ahh now it is time for the greates of all the armies to enter the frey, The Solars. During this time in the world
the Vast angelic host has begun to fear for all the people of the world, not because of the technology, that
is not a problem. It is the enterance of Devils and Deamons back into the war that we believe will caust this
plane to slip into the nether regions (Torment) We come here not to stop the fighting through talks and
peace, but through action. We will come to this plane on the magical Island of Nuriel(sp) and from there
begin our pasification of all the lands. We do not care who fights aghainst us our goal is not to stop the war
for going on but only to stop the devils and deamons from taking thi plane. We will send diplomats to the
elven nations and ask them to halt their association with the deamons, and ally themselves with us and we
will coe to their aid, but NOT to destroy the technomancy but to destroy the devils who are allied with
forrester and the rouge deamons. We will also ask the fairie folk and the druids to assist us in our rightious
cause and offer them our help and protection aghainst those who are allied with the forces of darkness. We
will also send a representive to the dwarven nation asking them to reconsider breaking their alliance with the
fairie folk and join us in the purification of the lands.

------------------
Cleric of St. Cuthbert "I?m about to drop the hammer, and dispense some indiscriminate justice!"

buzzard
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:39 PM

After us "corrupt humans" have heard of this slander, we decide that it's time to stop with the fig leaves. We
offered truce. We didn't start this war. We merely called on avialable allies when we were in dire straights.
We've had enough. Technical schools are set up to train the humanoids in all aspects of the technology.

We work hard on advanced breechloading artillery, repeating rifles, gatling guns (maybe moving up to
Maxim level guns eventually, give it time) and mines. In the face of this firepower and proper fortifications
(trenches, star type forts, pallisades, and barbed wire), the barbarian threat is no threat. Merely wheat to be
mowed down. They will charge in the defenses, the barbed wire will bog them down and they will die. This
isn't even a shadow of a fair fight. Remeber Custer slew many times his number before he went down and
he had inferior weapons to our cause, and no fortifications.

As for the Gnomes, I'm amazed they would ally themselves with those who started this mess. I'm rather
leery of the Devils, and I will keep the Illithid suggestions under consideration. Factories will be moved
underground as per the suggestions of the humanoids. I'm also going to consult with clerics of Gond about
magicking up some Sharps rifles of Dragon Slaying (+5 Major slaying).

Buzzard

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:42 PM

The elves EAGERLY accept the alliance of the Faerie Folk!!

The new alliance, the Elven / Faerie Alliance, has a Power Rating of 15.

However, the massive devil army that has come into Toril to help the Technomancy Confederation has
pushed them up also, and they now stand at Power Rating 12.

The Demons running amok and attacking everything and everyone in sight have a power rating of 4.

The druid alliance led by Bran has increased greatly in power, and is up to a Power Rating of 5.

The Tuigan horde has not allied with the dwarves, gnomes, or kender (especially not the kender ...) but
their combined strength is a Power Rating of 6.

The person (I forget his name) who walked in out of Athas with an army of defilers (I think everyone should
take note of this new threat!) has a Power Rating of 2, but the defilers are looking at Toril and saying:
hmmm ... look at all that VEGETATION we can use up for our spells!

The war in the heavens continues, with the Elven Imperial Navy of Realmspace locked in mortal combat with
the Scro Navy. Hundreds of wrecked spelljammer ships are crashing down onto Toril.

The Illthid remain at Power Level 10, and are entrenched.

The Technomancy has the Githyanki, Githzerai, Scro, evil creatures of the sea including the Sahuagin, many
of the evil dragons, the devils, and massive help from Zakhara.

The Elven / Faerie Alliance has most of the remaining dragons, and is in an unofficial alliance with the
dwarves, gnomes, and kender (and kender are now running around Evermeet, by the way)

The Tuigan Horde has been joined by elements out of Kara-Tur.

There are so many sides, and so much confusion, and so many opportunists coming in from other worlds,
other Crystal Spheres, and other Planes, that nobody is sure who is allied with who (including ME.)

Zouron continues to amass his army of undead (now Power Level 2) and he has joined nobody.

The Planeswalkers have grown greatly, and they are at Power Level 2.

The single biggest arms race in the history of Toril is in progress.



LazyDM
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:45 PM

Time for me to step in.

I'm the spokesman for one of the more powerful factions that has yet to reveal itself...until now.

So many people crowded together behind their impenetrable walls. Cleanliness probably isn't the first thing
on their minds. Add to that the fact magic has been messed around with so much it was only a matter of
time before yet another consequence of the Month of Terror appeared.

I speak for the plagues, the sicknesses, and the afflictions that rise up in the supposed sanctuaries.
Resistant to magical cures and a mystery to the ignorant populace these highly communicable, nearly
always fatal diseases crop up without regard for sides.

Question is, who should they target?

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:52 PM

Ok, two NEW developments.

An army of angels has descended on Toril, and they are attacking the demons and devils (and anyone who
stands with them)
This army is Power Level 7.

Burned Man leads his army of defilers into Toril, and with their aid, the Technomancy jumps to Power Level
13.

Unfortunately, the use of Defiler magic starts eradicating vegetation and water permanently ...

Many clerics prophesy the end of Toril if defiling magic continues to be allowed.

The Technomancy has now reached the technology level of the French and Germans at the height of World
War One.
The combustion engine has been invented.
The first aircraft has been launched.
Electricity is now widely used (although only for military applications - there hasn't been time for anything
else)
The Technomancy now has the ability to mass produce very fine firearms and machine guns, along with
artillery and mortars, and high explosives.

However ...

The gnomes are also advanced technologically, and they are working with the dwarves furiously to educate
them on building weapons of war.
Dwarves are fast learners, and they are very good at building things.
So, although the dwarves and gnomes are still playing catch up, they are catching up fast.

A number of kender have gotten into the explosives research labs. The result has been invariably
disastrous.

The Chosen of Mystra are personally attacking the defilers from Athas, hunting them down one by one and
killing them.
No quarter is given, and no surrenders accepted.
But the Chosen do send this message to the defilers of Athas: leave Toril now, do not ever return, or face
immediate destruction.

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:52 PM

Solars Schmolars!

Sheesh. After I walk my dog I'll log in under a different username and say that I'm entering the fray on the
side of God.

Seriously, Solars aren't an independent force -- they report to their gods.

If this is the case, may I suggest that we let Edena decide when the Gods Themselves enter the war?

Forrester
Who is *really* leaving now . . .
And who thinks the Technomancy is getting hosed here.



Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:56 PM

Actually, the Gods have been quite good about not getting involved.
Nor will they get involved.

Pretty much all the angels, demons, and devils that can enter the war, have entered the war.
Toril is now swarming with hundreds of thousands of minor demons and devils, thousands of major ones,
and thousands of angels come to fight them.

Alzem Dalcama
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:04 PM

Ahh but forrester we are not here to join in the war on one side or the other. We are here solely to save the
world for slipping into one of the nether regions by removing the influence of the demons and the devils
from the realms. Sheesh since they got involved we want to know when the a-bomb will be invented to use
on our foes, not if that is not a reason for the gods to get involved for the express purpose of ridding this
evil influence then what is? As I said we are not here it defeat any of the armies of man, but to destroy
those things that do not belong here ( Edena_of_Neith I am not to familiar with the defilers if they were to fit
with the devils and demons offer assistance to the chosen as this means Mystra is directly opposed to
them.) As for the diseases that are soon to ravage the world we will do nothing to stop this as this was
caused by mankind's folly. We will also start setting up a neutral zone where anyone can come and stay in
peace until this war is over.

------------------
Cleric of St. Cuthbert "I?m about to drop the hammer, and dispense some indiscriminate justice!"

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:07 PM

Disease brings havoc and suffering to the war-torn surface dwellers...
Good show LazyDM!

The Illithid are entering a golden age, so to speak. Growing increasingly indifferent to the events above, the
MindFlayers are content to concentrate on their own betterment while the thrall-races of the surface destroy
themselves. With their recently obtained massive quantities of arcane power, old taboos against MindFlayer
magery rapidly disappear. Although they will never be as plentiful as the psions, MindFlayer wizards and
sorcerers are now fairly common. Uninterrupted by conflict, the great scientific minds of the Illithid are able
to concentrate on the production of the most advanced technology-psionic-magic hybrid machinery and
equipment ever known. There are periodic expansions within the underdark... the already decimated drow,
the Ku'Toa and many other underdark races are enslaved... their portions of the underworld cut off from the
surface like all the rest.

The MindFlayers begin to experience something many in their race never have the good fortune to feel...
contentment.
The alignment of the greater MindFlayer population on Toril begins to shift, very slowly, from evil to neutral.
Of course their thralls-keeping practices and their diet could never allow much more than that...

Other worlds, far removed from Toril, note surges in the power and activity of native Illithid, as the
MindFlayers of Toril distribute their marvels of arcane and psionic enhanced technology to their distant kin...


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"Everything I need to know in life I learned from killing smart people and eating their brains."

LazyDM
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:07 PM

Botulism strikes the humanoid foodstuffs.

Blackrot Fever decimates Waterdeep and its Undermountain refugee population.

Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:07 PM

Well, since Edena never said I was dead, nor said the Dragon Overlords attacked, I guess I managed to
convince them that Toril isn't worth the effort.

As such, seeing the only way to end the war is with something so decisive that no side can stand up to it, I
go looking for the one person that can possibly bring order to chaos. Someone who obviously is out
wandering the planes right now to let things get this bad. Someone who, as much as I hate to bring him into
it, is necessary at this time.

I go search the planes, find this person, and tell him of all the details of things that has happened.
Including the birth of technology, start of the war, messing with the weave, so on and so forth.

Ladies and gentlemen, I come home with....

Eleminster.

And boy is he upset.


EDIT: Notice Mini isn't a god, nor is he able to strike everyone down at once. But he's sure good at looking
threatening
------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

[This message has been edited by Estlor (edited 04-10-2001).]

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:11 PM

Remember that the Athasians also possess very potent psionics...




Mr. Draco
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:14 PM

Hah, weaklings, there is yet time to save yourself.
I, Admiral Draco of the New Republic Navy, has come to your planet at the request of Jedi Master Skywalker,
(who, by the way, learned of the conflict from the psionists, aka Jedi). My fleet of 500 Mon Clamarian Star
Cruisers will wipe out any hostile forces. Lead by myself and Jedi Master Skywalker's group of Jedi, onboard
the recovered Super Star Destroyer Lusankya, nothing that stands and fights will survive. For we come with
the might of a galaxy backing us, and with the faith that the force is with us.

I say again, join us, or perish.

P.S. Your spells will not get through our shields, neither will your low-technology guns.

P.P.S. A notice to all psionists, *ahem* jedi, stand tall against all who oppose you, as soon as you have a
chance, contact Master Skywalker with your position and status, so that we may send teams to assist.

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:16 PM

Forrester,

...I Dregoth can grant those who follow me clerical magic, those worthy will be allowed to become my
templars. Allow your people to worship me for I care for your kind...

...My servants will teach your follower the power of the Will and the Way (psionics)...

...and the power of athasian magic...

...worship me and I will do this for you...

*Dregoth starts researching a very special psionic enchantment (+10 level spell)...



Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:18 PM

I'd like to point out that Eleminster and I are not on anyone's side at this time.

The side we are on is the side that demands a stop to the war. The side that stands up for the good over
the evil. And the side that isn't concerned with who is right or wrong, just who is willing to take a step to end
the insanity.

As such, we invite anyone that is not evil and wants to see an end to the war to join us, otherwise, well,
Eleminster and I will end up making targeted strikes

We'll stop the war one city at a time, if only by destroying the implements of war.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:18 PM

Alzem, where exactly do you set up the Neutral Zone?
What country? What continent?

The defilers are a special kind of mage.
They advance at TWICE the rate of normal mages, in experience point terms.

But every time they cast a spell, it kills plant life in the immediate vicinity.
The higher level the spell, the more plant life it kills.
The high level spells of the Defilers also kill animals, and cause agonizing pain to humans and
demi-humans.
The 10th level psionic enchantments, kill humans and demi-humans.

These spells also destroy water.

Defiling magic is the reason Athas is a burned wasteland, ruined and waterless.

The Chosen of Mystra continue to kill every Defiler they find, without mercy or remorse, and they will not
stop until the last Defiler is driven from the world.

If the Technomancy sides with the Defilers, the Chosen themselves can be beaten back, and possibly killed.

That decision, rests with the Technomancy.

The Elven / Faerie / Angelic Alliance has a Power Level of 20.
This is primarily because most of the dragons and an army of angels is on their side, but they also have all
the faerie, and they have all the elves, and the dwarves, the gnomes, and the halflings (and the kender ...)
The also have a large host of Outsiders from Arvandor, allies of the Faerie.

But the Technomancy is up to a Power Level of 16, for they have hordes of help from assorted humanoids,
githyanki, githzerai, scro, devils, evil dragons, evil sea creatures, a lot of allies from Athas including defilers,
and a lot of other allies.
The help from Burned Man meant a big difference.
And Zakhara continues to send massive help.

The demons are on neither side, as previously stated, but instead attack everyone. They are Power Level 5
now.

Bran's Druidical Alliance is up to Power Level 6.

Zouron's undecided force of undead remains at Power Level 2.

The Tuigan Horde is defeated. They would not have a chance now against the Technomancy.
They fall back to the Hordelands, leaving thousands of their fellows dead on the field.
They fall back, only to find the demons attacking them also (the demons aren't discriminating)

The Illithid are up to Power Level 11, and their defenses are stronger now, for they've had about a full year
to work on them.

There is massive war and destruction across the entire world of Toril, as the angels and demons battle it
out.
How much damage the Technomancy takes depends on how much they support their devil allies.
Both sides are, of course, losing thousands killed, thousands wounded and dispelled.

I am assuming Bran's druids and the elves aid the angels.
Kara-Tur also fights on their side.
Zakhara is glad for their help, for demons are assailing them also. However, Zakhara remains allied with the
Technomancy, despite their alliance with the devils.



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Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Estlor
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:21 PM

Signing off for now.

However, for those that do not join together to stop the war, the two of us will target not them, but their
resources, weapons, and supplies so as to remove their ability to fight.

------------------
The Lighthouse Webmaster
"More conversions, less talk."

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:22 PM


Disallowed.

It is not possible for the Rebel Alliance to get involved in this mess.
Or the Empire.

Phasmus is correct. The illithid are entering a golden age.
With their phaerimm slaves and the captured artifacts, they are making centuries of magical progress in
only a few years.
Because nobody is attacking them (the few Gith companies that tried could not reach them) the have
multiplied and expanded as stated.

They increase to Power Level 12.
They also are leaning towards neutrality now, and are considerably less evil (as stated by Phasmus)

It might actually be possible to negotiate with them now (that is, they would not eat the negotiators
immediately)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:27 PM

I will echo the words of Buzzard in saying that we were gunning for a peace agreement because we had
beaten back the elves sufficiently... Now, for some bloody reason, the dwarves turn around and attack
Technocratic holdings? After the aid and technology we have sent to them? And for some reason, our allies
from day one, the gnomes have decided to switch sides?

What the hell is this?

The Technocracy has not been consulted in the summoning of Devils to the side of the Humanoids. I knew
this would come back and bite us in the @$$... As a result, I would believe that the Technomancy would stay
their lines and hold their ground, but we now stand alone. If we now stand alone, I will issue a communiqué
to all known factions: The Technomancy will not attack any one nation that does not attack them as of this
date. Instead, we will leave all involved to deal with it their way. If the "Elder Races" wish to fight a war, so
be it, but keep it off of our land.

We have the capability to defend ourselves better than we can attack someone, do you want your first
invading army to be crushed by the weight of our machine guns and artillery? ((We have technology of
around the level of WW1, as Edena said.)) This goes true with the humanoids as well, if they get rid of the
fiends, we will return into the fray, but as it stands, this singular act has made it such that our primary allies,
the Gnomes, have left us.

I, for one, value their company. If you are still bent on war, go ahead, but do not target us with your ill
magics and stolen technology.

This communiqué will need the blessing of either Lannon or another Technomancer, though, before it is
ratified as policy.

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

LazyDM
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:28 PM

Hoof and mouth disease strike the Tuigan Horde.

The illithid brain-pools are stricken with Cascade Fever.

The influx of people from Athas also brings an influx of new diseases as well. Big nasty diseases some
would almost call intelligent, but then those people probably already are hallucinating with fever so no one
would listen to their ramblings anyway.

[This message has been edited by LazyDM (edited 04-10-2001).]

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:35 PM

Very well.

As of this moment (at least) there is a cease fire.

All fighting between the Elven / Faerie / Dwarven-Gnomish-Halfling / Angelic Alliance, and the Technomancer
Confederation (and all it's allies) has stopped.

These two gigantic powers are eyeing each other warily, rebuilding as well as they can, and fortifying their
defenses, but hostilities have ceased.

The illithid remain quiet in the Underdark.

The angels continue to fight the fiends, but that is a minor aside. (At least, it is minor compared to what will
happen when war breaks back out.)

There is now a chance for all three sides: elves, technomancers, and illithid, to come to the table and
hammer out a peace agreement.

Does anyone attempt this? (ANYONE involved in Posting to this Thread has a right to come forward, and
attempt the peace treaty.)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]

Mr. Draco
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:36 PM

Too late, when wizards of the coast made the 3e psionic handbook, they knew that it meant JEDI. But to be
fair, no empire or alliance. However the psionists still call on Skywalker and the Jedi for help.

*Drumroll*

Enter the Jedi, allies with the psionists, and to be fair, devoid of technology except for their lightsabers
(come on what's a jedi without a lightsaber)

And I, as Jedi Master (and ex: admiral) Draco, co-leader of the Jedi/Psionist League now deliver this
message on our behalf.

"All psionic creatures, join together, we will combat this menace that attepts to stop the progression of
technology. Report with your local psionist allies to join the new power. (this includes mind flayers and the
like) Now that we have gathered our power, it is time to tip the balance, we pledge alliance to the
technomancy, if they are willing, we will help to protect the development of technology."

P.S. I think that they would also like to know our secrets of lightsaber production.

buzzard
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:39 PM

Minimal support will be provided to the devils. Also we are just holding our lines as per Reprisal's
reccomendation. If, by chance, we have any way of gauging the Illithids intentions, we may become more
receptive to their offers. Also, keep in mind that it was the humanoids that offered alliance with the devils.
Not ourselves. While they are our allies, they are not our leaders.

Also no support whatsoever will be offered to the defilers. After seeing what damage they unleash, we will be
expelling them from out lands. Resistance will be punished with a bullet in the head(from the magic sniper
weapons). Any sort of alliance with such beings is summarily rejected.

Buzzard

LazyDM
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:39 PM

A mitichlorian rhinovirus wipes out the Jedi population.

Jar Jar spread it.

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:42 PM

The Technomancy expels the Defilers from their lands.
The Chosen applaud this, obviously.

It becomes apparent to all that the Technomancy wants peace.

It is up to the elves and the illithids (and the other minor powers.)
Will they come, and attempt a peace treaty, or plunge Toril back into war?

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:43 PM

I just remembered that Lannon et al are probably at work or classes. I'm blessed and cursed with a day off
until 7pm PST, so I must push the Policy through our parliaments myself. We have a majority, or a majority
coalition in each of our nations, so it shouldn't be all that difficult. In any event, we will stand and let Fate
handle the problem with the Outsiders, who are worse than the Elder Races, IMO, and enter into
International Relations once things have calmed down a bit.

In essence, remove the Technocracy power level from "our" side until the devils are beaten back. Oh, and
Edena, let the dwarves and gnomes know that we have not sanctioned the use of such creatures and will not
use them. If the forces under Forrester try to retreat back from their lines to our nations, they will be fired
upon.

I urge Forrester to be rid of his devils, though we believe in the right to National Self-Determination, we do
not condone the use of said creatures. Be rid of them, and we'll talk, if you are still bent on killing the Elves,
who were defeated by our standards, go ahead.

If the Illithids are more "neutral" now, I will relay a message to them, it will be the communiqué. I will not
send any envoys though, for I trust the Mind Flayers far less than I trust the humanoids at this point.

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:43 PM

I jump at the chance to hammer out an agreement.

(Post Edit)

I also issue an apology to Buzzard for jumping the gun, we got a little worried there.

Rep.

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus

[This message has been edited by Reprisal (edited 04-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Reprisal (edited 04-10-2001).]

buzzard
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:45 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Edena_of_Neith:
Very well.


Does anyone attempt this? (ANYONE involved in Posting to this Thread has a right to come
forward, and attempt the peace treaty.)

[This message has been edited by Edena_of_Neith (edited 04-10-2001).]


The Technocracy makes no demands but a calls a permanent ceasefire (think Korea). Boundaries will
remain static as current. No demands for reparations are given. This position will not budge.

Given the behavior of our enemies, I hardly think we will ever trust them. Half are the havok wreaking elves,
and the others are turncoats from our side. There may be peace, but there will be no amity.

Buzzard



Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:47 PM

The other side must respond, Reprisal.

All hostilities have ceased, until then.

Except for the angel/fiend battles, but again - they is aside from the point.

There are minor skirmishes, obviously, between the various allied forces - with so many different parties in
the field, they would be skirmishes.
But again, this is minor.

The Technomancy has declared it wishes peace, is willing to expel the devils, has already expelled the
Defilers, and has ceased all hostilities.
Now, it is up to the Elves / Faeries / Angels, and the Illithid.
And the others.

zouron
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:47 PM

since a possible treaty is up, I remain silent for now with my answer, I see that most other have sought
outside help, yet the most powerful forces are yet untouched, I immidiately summons the efreeti and
elementals to help (major alliance with fire, minor with air and earth). My armies of undead will turn anyone
foolish enough to attack us into new recruits.

Efreeti are promised spells of power against the Djinns, the great sultan will slaves, gold power spells for his
mens effort. The elementals will be offered magic and weapons against the elemental water forces. My
people will even trade for the body of the fall dead from fallen armies. No enemy will be shown mercy in any
way.

Also attempt to recruit the lone psionics will start, promising them resources for their study in exchange for
aid. Peasents will be promised land and fair laws to work for us.

Anyone entering the land we claims as ours without promision will be slaughtered on sight and turns into as
powerful undead as possible.

We might not be the most recon force but soon our powers will raise.

Defence of the land is still a prime aspect using the latest spy techniques as well as powerful forces of
udnead.

random raides into neighbours will be conducted (except those we trade with), and the green skins can
plunder what riches they find as long as body for our armies are gathered.

signed zouron

Alzem Dalcama
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:48 PM


quote:

Posted by Edena_of_Neith
Alzem, where exactly do you set up the Neutral Zone?
What country? What continent?


on an island that has not ben ravaged by the war, if possible create one off to the west of waterdeep (500
miles approx.)

OK this war has started to escilate beyond anyone groups abality tp stop so We will start to tone down the
wholesale salughter of the people.

1. There is massive war and destruction across the entire world of Toril, as the angels and demons battle it
out. As we fight the demons we will attemt to repair any damage that was caused during our fights. Also we
will attemt to keep the civilans casualities as small as possible, possibly even sacrafiving angles to keep
large numbers of innocents from being killed.

2. The defilers are a special kind of mage.
They advance at TWICE the rate of normal mages, in experience point terms.
But every time they cast a spell, it kills plant life in the immediate vicinity.
The higher level the spell, the more plant life it kills.
The high level spells of the Defilers also kill animals, and cause agonizing pain to humans and demi-humans.
The 10th level psionic enchantments, kill humans and demi-humans.
These spells also destroy water.
Defiling magic is the reason Athas is a burned wasteland, ruined and waterless.
The Chosen of Mystra continue to kill every Defiler they find, without mercy or remorse, and they will not
stop until the last Defiler is driven from the world. Here i expect the help of Bran and the Druidic alliance in
helping to drive these reapers of death back to their on lands. We will assist in any way necessary, but the
demons and Devils are sill Our first priority.

3. Zouron's undecided force of undead remains at Power Level 2 We want to Find Zouron if he is known to
exist and try to enlist bot his and the Illithids help in closing ALL the portals to this world. The MindFlayers
begin to experience something many in their race never have the good fortune to feel... contentment.
The alignment of the greater MindFlayer population on Toril begins to shift, very slowly, from evil to
neutral.


------------------
Cleric of St. Cuthbert "I?m about to drop the hammer, and dispense some indiscriminate justice!"

[This message has been edited by Alzem Dalcama (edited 04-10-2001).]

Mr. Draco
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:50 PM

Won't work, this is why:

Firstly: "Midi-chlorian- this species of microscopic organism is known to the Jedi Knights as a symbiotic
creature that exists within the cells of every living creature. Life in the galaxy is dependent upon the
midi-chlorians"

So if the midi-chlorians are wipped out, so is everything else, i doubt that the gods would like to see all of
their creations suddenely wipped out by a disease. So they intervine and stop it before it can cause any
damage to anybody. Bummer.

Anyways, If anyone in the technocracy is willing to acknowledge an alliance, it will become official, then the
combined might of the technocracy and Jedi/Psionic league will supply ample bargaining power if a peace
agreement is attempted, if not, well what is so bad about having several thousand jedi and psionists,
(including mind flayers and the like) on your side?

Edena_of_Neith
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:51 PM

Based on the above posts ...

Everyone on Toril realizes just about simultaneously that there is a chance ... a chance ... that this could be
stopped.
Toril is on the brink. The brink of a war of annihilation.
But it appears everyone has woken up to this fact, just in time.

There is a chance to turn this thing off.
A chance for peace.
The world will never be the same again, but there is a chance to have a world, to expel the destructive
Outsiders, the Defilers, the others.

There is this one chance.

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:01 PM

I Dregoth UNDEAD sorcerer-king approach Zouron and offer an alliance....

I will learn you the way of the Mind if you allow me access to the secrets of Torilian magic....

I send out missionaries to humanoids offering them power if they worship me....

*continues research on psionic enchantment*



buzzard
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:07 PM


quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Draco:

Anyways, If anyone in the technocracy is willing to acknowledge an alliance, it will become
official, then the combined might of the technocracy and Jedi/Psionic league will supply
ample bargaining power if a peace agreement is attempted, if not, well what is so bad about
having several thousand jedi and psionists, (including mind flayers and the like) on your side?


Sure, we're OK with an allaince. However it will just be a defensive alliance since we just don't want to fight
anymore. We also will be a touch leery. We've been burned before.

Also, if the outsiders can be convinced to leave, we're game.

Buzzard (not trying to speak for all technos, but I think I'm on the right side of things)


Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:07 PM

I am the Illithid emissary.

"My name cannot be encompassed by your mind, but you may refer to me as Mindetcher. I have been sent
from the underrealms to discuss the expulsion of the Blood War from Faerun.
Our terms are simple. You leave us alone when we finish expelling them, and we will do the same to you.
We will not trouble you for many, many decades. Agreed?"

I'm in Technomancy territory at the moment, and I haven't eaten anyone yet, though a lot of dead dogs
have shown up... (Hey, they're ALMOST sentient. They help me avoid eating any sentients.)

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

Mr. Draco
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:08 PM

Hah, dregoth, the secrets of the mind belong to me , Co-leader of the Jedi/Psionic League. And the one still
awaiting a reply from the technocracy. To gain the secrets of the mind, you would have to defeat an army of
thousands upon thousands of jedi and psionists, (not to mention mind-flayers and the like)

Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:12 PM

It looks like we (the humanoids) can't afford to wait until 7PM EST. Dammit.

First: Edena, you gave the Devils, w/WW1 weaponry (that includes nitro/dynamite), an essential power level
of 3 (we went from 9 to 12). You're giving the Demons a power level of 5. (We went from 12 to 16 with the
aid of the defilers, I gather, as well as other additional allies.)

So the well-organized horde of devils with technomagical support count as power level "3", but the Demons
count as power level "5"? You know, if there were that many more demons than devils, we would have allied
with *them*!

It seems every time we get an ally, they suck compared to the force coming in on the other side. Druids,
power 5? The combined force of the Technomancy AND the millions of well-armed humanoids was only power
7 at the end of year 5. Are the druids that numerous and do they have power equivalent to bugbears with
gatling guns?

If you insist on this seeming anti-humanoid bias, then sure. We'll formally disavow and end any alliance
with the Devils. We've given them advanced technology already anyway. So we'll do a little supplying behind
the lines, perhaps . . . nothing serious. It isn't as though at this point they can't operate efficiently
independently. (If they are, in fact, more powerful than power level 3, let me know.)

Second: Re the defilers. We will formally disavow contact with them as well. (Don't worry, guys . . . we'll
support you as well behind the scenes. Not completely and totally, of course -- but the "official"
technomancy will have a very difficult time finding you.)

I'll point out to Edena that given we've taken a lot of the factories and such to the Underdark, and have
always relied a great deal on fungi and cave lizards and rivers in the Underdark, above-ground "Defilement"
isn't a big deal to us. Especially if it's aimed at the elves. Those silly Defilers! Working Independently!

Let me know if I've messed anything up with the backstory . . .

Forrester

By the way -- the Teleport Without Error ability of the stronger devils should be DEVASTATING . . . given that
they can carry technomagical explosives with them. Aiming for the Gnome/Dwarf laboratories, of course, if
possible. We have the tech edge right now. We're taking advantage of it.

Damn those devils, working independently! Kind of.

Finally, Imps are devils. And Imps can cause a LOT more havok than Kender can. The power level of Devils
w/Cheaty Technomagic should be a lot greater.

(Have the Gith made any progress w/their Psionic research? Perhaps the defilers can help?)


Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:18 PM

The second emissary of the MindFlayers came...
It was covered in black shiny carapace-like armor which hummed and glinted with psionic power. It's eyes
were shielded from the dim light with a pair of large black goggles. The only flesh of the creature that could
be seen were its tendrils... which darted in and out of a small pouch hanging in front of where it's mouth
would be. It was securely, but comfortably, fastened to a chairlike metal framework. On its head, over its
armor, sat a black crystal circlet... a psionic dampener which would prevent anything more strenuous than
mental communication from effecting or being produced by the Illithid. It had taken great pains to make
itself seem as harmless to the poor, easily frightened, thralls as possible. Bearing its seat it were four Scorp
Thralls... conditioned to obey its every command without question, regardless of psionic control.
The mind flayer's minions bear their master toward the council of the other faction members. Before they
have a chance to rise or speak, the creature's voice slips into their minds like sand through ones fingers...

"Greetings the SunLit ones... I speak for the Illithid. I understand that you seek to discuss terms of peace.
Not just peace between our own forces, perhaps... But the enforcement of peace across the face of Toril. We
are willing to help you bring about this goal... oh yes. At the very least, we will not take up arms against you
without cause. We are very happy with our current situation, you see... Oh yes... If you desire our help,
concessions on your part will be necessary. We wish to put the conflict behind us, you see... We will help you
find peace, if you will not attempt to interfere with us after all is said and done. If you agree, our forces will
set about aiding yours in pacifying the world... and purging the undead menace. If not, we will wait below...
and claim what remains of your world at the end of it all. Would that you will not force us to take the latter
course. There is mutual profit to be had in our association..."

The final results of the discussion are, of course, pending.

For the record, the MindFlayers are STILL searching for ways to gain control of the world, and banish the
sun... but their motives and intentions have changed somewhat, as has the likelihood of their immediately
employing such knowledge should they succeed in finding it.


Regards,

Phasmus & Co.

"When in doubt, use duct tape."

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:18 PM

I Dregoth am a master of Will and the Way, your paltry powers are nothing compared to mine
(20th/20th/9th defiler/psion/dragon, undead in 2e, so he´s a 29th level psion)

all athasians have wild talents....

*contiues researching his VERY special spell*



Forrester
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:23 PM

Draco -- we welcome you to our side, should you allow us to inspect whatever technology you've got with you.

Dregoth -- sorry, we ain't worshpping you. You may be our allies. Nothing more.
EDIT: Right now the Technomancy wants you dead, the elven alliance wants you dead . . pretty much
everyone. We'll secretly give you sanctuary. It's your call.

Illithids. Precisely what was your offer? Peace? Will you strike the elves? What's the deal?

After you explain what it is, we tell you to go to hell, and eat you. Yummmmmm. Calamari.

You canNOT trust squid-heads, people. You should know that . . .

Forrester

[This message has been edited by Forrester (edited 04-10-2001).]


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Author
Topic: What would your PCs do if gnomes invented the Industrial Revolution?
Riot Gear
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:26 PM

That was dumb, Forrester. You're at WWI tech? We're at Starcraft Protoss tech. You are so screwed it isn't
funny.

On a related note, given that I control the Planewalkers, Eremith shows up from Athas.

He hasn't done anything.

Yet.

------------------
Grap a mop, there's going to be blood on the ceiling!!
-My character.

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:27 PM

Worship me, humanoids, I can grant divine energy to those who do so...

...and I have come to possess an artifact which would aid you greatly towards the Illithid if they would come
to turn against you...

"The Psionatrix"....

Phasmus
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:28 PM

Mr. Forrester, you were the one advocating the use of monstrosities from the lower planes, were you not? I
fear you may not be the best judge of who and who not to trust.

Our terms are simple. If we will be left alone after the war, we will help end the war now. If this is not agreed
to, we will let you settle things on your own... and we will be left to pick up the pieces.


Regards,

Phasmus

aka Don'Calamari

The Burned Man
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:28 PM

Sorry Planeswalkers you cant.

Dregoth has the planar gate (artifact), the only way to Athas (unless I´m missinformed?)

Reprisal
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:29 PM

We're still in a period of cease-fire until an Abassador from the Elder Races gets here, correct?

------------------
"Intelligence in chains loses in lucidity what it gains in intensity." - Albert Camus