<< PLANESCAPE >> How do you defeat the Lady of Pain?

random user

First Post
Shemeska said:
In terms of the metaplot, certain “weaknesses” have been exploited in the past, and the rare NPC has seemingly come close to gaining some victory over Her, only to ultimately fail (and sometimes with evidence such attempts were merely part of the Lady’s design). In any case, the Lady should always remain above and beyond the ambitions of the PCs.

If you want to keep to the canon and yet allow the fiends to rule Sigil, the way to do it is not by blunt force but through some sort of agreement.

Who knows what goes on in the mind of the Lady of Pain? And what is time to Her? Maybe there is some hidden agenda going on, and She chooses not to manifest her presence at the apparent takeover of Sigil.

It's possible to come up with some plot device that allows temporary (whether that be 1 day or 1000 years) apparent rule to pass to the fiends.

The key to beating the Lady of Pain is not to overwhelm her, but to convince her that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do.

At least that's the approach I would take.
 

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rounser

First Post
The way to defeat an unstatted, apparently invincible plot device such as the Lady of Pain is to get the DM to pit it against another unstatted, apparently invincible plot device
Such as Lord Ao. Just as the Lady of Pain is Planescape's version of "Teh buck stops here", Lord Ao is Faerun's version.
 

Whitey

First Post
'Who cares for you? You're nothing but a pack of cards!'
-- Alice, to the Queen of Hearts.

There's always a way. For the setting or the campaign to be worth playing, there has to be one. Otherwise, it's not D&D anymore - it just devolves into childish I'm Rubber, You're Glue situations.
But how? Take your pick of the following.

Bag of devouring either tossed over her or her tossed into it. Whatever goes in doesn't come back out. Period.

Mirror of opposition. Whatever arbitrary, dice-less, stat-less uberness the 'lady' is meets its intractable opposite and is negated. Either they are simultaneously destroyed or this creates some kind of black hole singularity. And on that topic:

Paragon Umbral Blot. The rules for this (and there actually are rules for this) state that whatever it touches is annihilated. Only the direct intervention of a deity can prevent this, and it seems inferred that the Lady is no deity. Blots are referred to as 'assassins of the elder gods', which might mean they worked on behalf of those beings, or subsumed them into absolute nothingness. Or both. Blots can't even be selected as targets of effects, as they are not a presence but an absence. Only three spells in the entire game do anything to one - they're expressly immune to any other effect.

There's lots of ways. Tuerny's Flask (from AEG) loaded with archfiends. An epic Spelldancer exploiting their 3E loophole to end up with 'infinity' as root attributes. Or just the reliable talisman of pure good which allows no save and lasts forever. The point is that a setting that needs an omnipotent hyperbeing to be made to work simply doesn't work in the first place.
 

LGodamus

First Post
Whitey said:
'Who cares for you? You're nothing but a pack of cards!'
-- Alice, to the Queen of Hearts.

There's always a way. For the setting or the campaign to be worth playing, there has to be one. Otherwise, it's not D&D anymore - it just devolves into childish I'm Rubber, You're Glue situations.
But how? Take your pick of the following.

Bag of devouring either tossed over her or her tossed into it. Whatever goes in doesn't come back out. Period.

Mirror of opposition. Whatever arbitrary, dice-less, stat-less uberness the 'lady' is meets its intractable opposite and is negated. Either they are simultaneously destroyed or this creates some kind of black hole singularity. And on that topic:

Paragon Umbral Blot. The rules for this (and there actually are rules for this) state that whatever it touches is annihilated. Only the direct intervention of a deity can prevent this, and it seems inferred that the Lady is no deity. Blots are referred to as 'assassins of the elder gods', which might mean they worked on behalf of those beings, or subsumed them into absolute nothingness. Or both. Blots can't even be selected as targets of effects, as they are not a presence but an absence. Only three spells in the entire game do anything to one - they're expressly immune to any other effect.

There's lots of ways. Tuerny's Flask (from AEG) loaded with archfiends. An epic Spelldancer exploiting their 3E loophole to end up with 'infinity' as root attributes. Or just the reliable talisman of pure good which allows no save and lasts forever. The point is that a setting that needs an omnipotent hyperbeing to be made to work simply doesn't work in the first place.


All of that of course , assumes you will even get to act :D
 

Calico_Jack73

First Post
Okay, after a 3 day weekend and some time to recharge the old brain cells I think I may have figured out a way to destroy Sigil and possibly the Lady with it if she is indeed a manifistation of Sigil. Now I'm not even saying that this would be easy but it seems like it would be easier to do than to defeat her in a straight up fight.
From what I've been led to believe everything in creation, even in the planes, is created from the interaction of the inner planes which must all be in balance to a degree. Too much or too little influence from any of the inner planes and you get a plane that is uninhabitable except by creatures with certain immunities. SO... that being said, what if the flow of Prime energy from the Positive Energy Plane or Negative energy from the Negative energy plane were increased or reduced? Could the Lady possibly be "negative energy poisoned" if the flow of positive energy were interrupted for even a short time?
 

reiella

Explorer
Calico_Jack73 said:
Okay, after a 3 day weekend and some time to recharge the old brain cells I think I may have figured out a way to destroy Sigil and possibly the Lady with it if she is indeed a manifistation of Sigil. Now I'm not even saying that this would be easy but it seems like it would be easier to do than to defeat her in a straight up fight.
From what I've been led to believe everything in creation, even in the planes, is created from the interaction of the inner planes which must all be in balance to a degree. Too much or too little influence from any of the inner planes and you get a plane that is uninhabitable except by creatures with certain immunities. SO... that being said, what if the flow of Prime energy from the Positive Energy Plane or Negative energy from the Negative energy plane were increased or reduced? Could the Lady possibly be "negative energy poisoned" if the flow of positive energy were interrupted for even a short time?

Well, the means to do such would be on the scale of Limiting the Positive Energy/Negative Energy planes themselves.

As the Lady can open (and close) portals to other planes at will, typically it isn't a situation that's all too possible.
 

Zappo

Explorer
Whitey said:
The point is that a setting that needs an omnipotent hyperbeing to be made to work simply doesn't work in the first place.
Uhm... either I don't understand something, or this assertion isn't a valid requirement for a working setting. FR and Ao? Dragonlance and the High God? Call of Cthulhu and... uhm, well, lots of beings? Ravenloft and the Dark Powers? Vampire and Cain? Real World (TM) and your religious figure of choice? Paranoia and the Computer?

IMO, the idea that everything must be defeated is ... well, typical D&D style I guess, but not something I'd agree with.
Besides, if you remove the Lady, Planescape still "works" (whatever that means), though it would be changed enough that I'd not call it Planescape.
 

I am surprised that no one has brought up the 2ed Vecna Lives module where Vecna escapes Ravensloft and goes into Sigil.

That right there is proof that the Lady is not everything that the rumors make her out to be.

My suggestion is the same as I posted in the Demon/Devil alliance thread. Use one of the portals into Sigil to channel divine power of a dead God into her. Once this makes her partially divine Sigil should kick her out since Gods are not supposed to be in Sigil.
 

LcKedovan

Explorer
EricNoah said:
Here's a better question:

How can a D&D character destroy something that doesn't have stats?? Answer me THAT my friend!!


Ye gods, I go AWOL for a few months and I almost miss a classic like this!! :D

lol

-Will
 

LcKedovan

Explorer
Altamont Ravenard said:
What if the Lady of Pain WAS a Ninja?

On a totally unrelated note, I saw a girl this autumn with a Lady of Pain tatoo on her back. Most incredible.

AR

That reminds me of a female "aquaintance" I knew who had the symbol of Torment on her leg.

-W.
 

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