<< PLANESCAPE >> How do you defeat the Lady of Pain?

[Kilamar]

ould be easier to do than to defeat her in a straight up fight.
From what I've been led to believe everything in creation, even in the planes, is created from the interaction of the inner planes which must all be in balance to a degree. Too much or too little influence from any of the inner planes and you get a plane that is uninhabitable except by creatures with certain immunities. SO... that being said, what if the flow of Prime energy from the Positive Energy Plane or Negative energy from the Negative energy plane were increased or reduced? Could the Lady possibly be "negative energy poisoned" if the flow of positive energy were interrupted for even a short time?

Not possible.

The inner planes are the building blocks of the Prime, not the outer planes.
Apart from that, they are no rules concerning the control of elemental energy.
If you use this strategy you could also claim the Lady suffocated on a Bretzel, because both options lie totally in control of the DM.

Use one of the portals into Sigil to channel divine power of a dead God into her. Once this makes her partially divine Sigil should kick her out since Gods are not supposed to be in Sigil.

Who claims that?

Kilamar

 

[LGodamus]

I am surprised that no one has brought up the 2ed Vecna Lives module where Vecna escapes Ravensloft and goes into Sigil.

That right there is proof that the Lady is not everything that the rumors make her out to be.

My suggestion is the same as I posted in the Demon/Devil alliance thread. Use one of the portals into Sigil to channel divine power of a dead God into her. Once this makes her partially divine Sigil should kick her out since Gods are not supposed to be in Sigil.

The module is "Die Vecna,Die" and is has been brought up...not to mention its such a junky module most people who played planescape ignore it anyway, and alot who dont still think is drivel since it is a basic general D&D adventure and breaks the accepted limits of two other seperate campaigns which it has no business doing.

 

[Shemeska]

The module is "Die Vecna,Die" and is has been brought up...not to mention its such a junky module most people who played planescape ignore it anyway, and alot who dont still think is drivel since it is a basic general D&D adventure and breaks the accepted limits of two other seperate campaigns which it has no business doing.

Many people do consider it apocryphal as it concerns Planescape for a number of reasons. Planewalker did keep a number of things about the module, though not the same reasons behind the events and certainly not the claims it tried to push concerning The Lady. If you still wish to use them in your own game go right ahead, but it came out of left field and attempted to explain away some mysteries that shouldn't be explained (not in a canon product anyways, that should be left up to DM's in most cases, IMHO).

And as far as the idea of pushing negative energy etc: as was pointed out the inner planes are just the building blocks of the prime, the outer planes are solidified belief. Plus, Sigil may or may not be a part of The Outlands. It may be a plane in and of itself, or it may exist outside of the multiverse entirely. Plus, the nature of access into Sigil being what it is, I dare say that scheme would be stillborn from the outset.

And it's never been said that Sigil itself by its nature prevents deities from entering. It's pretty solid that The Lady enforces the no powers in Sigil rule, rather than it being something there naturally that She would be subject to Herself. It may be horrific in terms of the consequences if a deity gained access to Sigil for any period of time, but besides preventing that, I wouldn't say that The Lady would be pushed out of Sigil if she gained a sliver of divinity. In fact you could argue that She wouldn't be affected by worship at all and flays people not out of fear of becoming a god Herself, but simply because it's an affront to a being of Her stature to be worshipped as a mere deity. I won't push that argument myself, but it's a possibility perhaps. This question doesn't really have an answer, and it's left undefined, though its assumed that She isn't a deity herself, something more or something 'different'.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The module is "Die Vecna,Die" and is has been brought up...not to mention its such a junky module most people who played planescape ignore it anyway, and alot who dont still think is drivel since it is a basic general D&D adventure and breaks the accepted limits of two other seperate campaigns which it has no business doing.

HOLY CRAP!!!! It broke a rule!!!

Someone get a rules lawyer, someone call the rules police. There is a arrest that needs to be made!!!

Give me a break.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

And it's never been said that Sigil itself by its nature prevents deities from entering. It's pretty solid that The Lady enforces the no powers in Sigil rule, rather than it being something there naturally that She would be subject to Herself. It may be horrific in terms of the consequences if a deity gained access to Sigil for any period of time, but besides preventing that, I wouldn't say that The Lady would be pushed out of Sigil if she gained a sliver of divinity. In fact you could argue that She wouldn't be affected by worship at all and flays people not out of fear of becoming a god Herself, but simply because it's an affront to a being of Her stature to be worshipped as a mere deity. I won't push that argument myself, but it's a possibility perhaps. This question doesn't really have an answer, and it's left undefined, though its assumed that She isn't a deity herself, something more or something 'different'.

That is the joy of remembering this is a game. As long as your decisions are consistent you can make whatever decision you want as a DM. If you want Sigil to be the real power and the Lady to be just the keeper who can get kicked out then fine.

The problem here is annoying rules lawyers who cannot seem to understand that rules for their campaigns or even those that print are the only way things can happen. If a campaign wants to destroy the Lady and change Sigil then God damn it that is what happens. No amount of fanboy babbling about how "uber and unstoppable" the Lady is will amount to anything.

 

[LGodamus]

That is the joy of remembering this is a game. As long as your decisions are consistent you can make whatever decision you want as a DM. If you want Sigil to be the real power and the Lady to be just the keeper who can get kicked out then fine.

The problem here is annoying rules lawyers who cannot seem to understand that rules for their campaigns or even those that print are the only way things can happen. If a campaign wants to destroy the Lady and change Sigil then God damn it that is what happens. No amount of fanboy babbling about how "uber and unstoppable" the Lady is will amount to anything.

Doc that attitude isnt helping anything...IF you would have bothered to read the thread you might have noted he wanted an official way to defeat the lady , not DM handwaving and saying "its my game I do what I want"

SO the so called fanboys , just might seem to have a little more knowledge of things official in nature to the subject of their fandom,eh?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Doc that attitude isnt helping anything...IF you would have bothered to read the thread you might have noted he wanted an official way to defeat the lady , not DM handwaving and saying "its my game I do what I want"

SO the so called fanboys , just might seem to have a little more knowledge of things official in nature to the subject of their fandom,eh?

Except that when I pointed out an "official" module that shows that the Lady is not as powerful as suggested at least one fanboy came out swinging that the Die Vecna Die module was dumb and shouldnt be allowed and broke the rules etc etc etc.

So are we discussing things purely based on what has been written or based on what fanboys have interpreted and used to throw out materia out that does not meet their fanboy standards?

 

[LGodamus]

I wrote that reply........

by the way it doesnt say the module is dumb. I said it is poorly written, most reviewers agreed I do believe. I further said that many people ignore it since it broke cannon of 2 settings....not just planescape but ravenloft as well....I never even said I ignore it, Hell, I have the module . So, your ranting over fanboys has no grounding, you are just using it as an excuse ...since you cannot seem to find something that works for this disussion. If you want to kill the lady in your game do it however you want to, but this discussion is about official ways to kill her.

Secondly, in "Die Vecna,Die" Vecna didnt breach the power of the Lady nearly as much as most people think it did...I re-read the module yesterday,...........Vecna didnt even come close . Although He did have a pretty spiffy plan......

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I wrote that reply........

by the way it doesnt say the module is dumb. I said it is poorly written, most reviewers agreed I do believe. I further said that many people ignore it since it broke cannon of 2 settings....not just planescape but ravenloft as well....I never even said I ignore it, Hell, I have the module . So, your ranting over fanboys has no grounding, you are just using it as an excuse ...since you cannot seem to find something that works for this disussion. If you want to kill the lady in your game do it however you want to, but this discussion is about official ways to kill her.

Secondly, in "Die Vecna,Die" Vecna didnt breach the power of the Lady nearly as much as most people think it did...I re-read the module yesterday,...........Vecna didnt even come close . Although He did have a pretty spiffy plan......

He was in Sigil that broke what I would expect to be rule #1 in her book.

 

[der_kluge]

Duh.

All you have to do is get the Lady of Pain to stand by the stairs.

Space Robots will take care of the rest.