Green Ronin not signing GSL (Forked Thread: Doing the GSL. Who?)

[Grimstaff]

I gather from his join date that he has been at least a lurker for over a year longer than you've been posting.

So he de-lurked to indulge in some sophomoric name-calling and groundless conspiracy theories?

Lucky us.

 

[Dolfan]

It's really too bad to hear that GR won't be publishing 4e material. Although I myself really don't have much use for any of the 3rd party material, I think that GR is one of the best publishers out there, so not having them on board does legitimately hurt WotC. For me and my group, it just means that we won't be supporting Green Ronin at all, since there's no way we're going to be running anything but 4e from this point forward, but it's definitely a loss for the rest of the people who enjoy both 4e and 3rd party material.

 

[mangamuscle]

So he de-lurked to indulge in some sophomoric name-calling and groundless conspiracy theories?

Actually, there is in the life of people a moment in time they will always remember (and yet some might forget it but they none the less will try to rememeber) and I think this is one of those. In the years to come people will say "What went wrong with WotC?". People will remember this as the moment they saw valuable people jumping off the ship yet continue to sail full speed ahead. Oh, but I am boring you gentle reader with my prose shock full on conspiracy theories and whatnot, fear not, chances are I wil return in no time to my lurker status, there is no need to repeat myself over and over.

 

[Korgoth]

Its sad the GSL is so restrictive, but understandable. Its also sad that so few 3P companies are willing to go to bat for their fans and try to work something out, and this I have a harder time understanding.

I find this quote to be from Backwards Planet. It is located in the Opposite Nebula.

Green Ronin is going to bat for their fans. That's why they're not signing on to the GSL. It was WOTC/Hasbro that decided to radically reinvent their game, get out of open gaming and write a license that allows them to vaporize your livelihood on a whim (not to mention one that doesn't even allow you to quote page numbers, let alone actual material). It was WOTC/Hasbro that decided it would be a good idea to make their customers rebuy all the stuff they already own... again.

If a company wants to go to bat for its fans, it should stick with open gaming and produce products which are useable by players of legacy editions of D&D.

 

[Gotham Gamemaster]

The Freeport Trilogy was 3e's killer app for me--and while their D&D output might have slowed since then, the quality always remained. So, for me, 4e is the lesser today in a huge way. No Paizo, no Green Ronin, no word from Necromancer--and all that's left are the thinly disguised "D&D Miniatures" battles being foisted of as adventures by WotC these days.

The only thing that can save 4e for me is the upcoming Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. If that book can add some story to the drastic 4e changes in mechanics, then the 4e books on my shelves won't turn into the Sega Saturn that they are threatening to become.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

I say good for Green Ronin! They did some great things with bold new interpretations of the d20 system, and they should go with what works!

Now if only they'd produce some 4E products using only copyright law.

Why would they want to produce products for a suck*** game like 4ed? I'd prefer they keep publishing what they've been publishing.
I applaud GR for seeing a poor game, a poor deal in the GSL, and following their breathren Paizo into a non-4e future.

 

[Psion]

What exactly do you think the majority of their fan base are buying from them? I'm pretty confident that it is Blue Rose, True 20, or Mutants & Masterminds, along with other bits.

If this weren't true, they wouldn't have moved away from D20 in the first place.

And Race and Class Codex would have been in print.

 

[Scylla]

if wotc really wanted to control their ip they should have done it through leadership, not strong arm tactics.

qft.

 

[Treebore]

That depends if they have a crystal ball to know if WotC will not sue them until they have no money or will to pay for lawyers like TSR did in the good all days. Remember, Hasbro (like any big company with an IP portfolio) has on their payroll lawyers happy to sue anybody since that is proof they are needed at the company. On the other side you have small companies like GR that either asked a close friend or had to pay a lawyer just to make sure they undestood fully the GSL. With such posibilities looming on the horizon the will to support a new game system with suplements grows quite dim I would say.

Dude, read the copyright laws. They are far from being this big iron monkey with which to crush people who try to publish stuff. If it was you wouldn't have had Judges Guild and others. They were not shut down by lawsuits.

In fact, copyright law has become much more clearly defined in the last 20 years and is a safer path then ever to walk. All you have to do is make sure to keep your path clear fo pitfalls, and that is far from hard to do.

Copyright protects you from blatant copying/plageurism, that is it. Stay away from blatantly copying what WOTC prints, stay away from their trademarked and copyrighted terms, and your safe.

ITs pretty simple to go the copyright route. As long as your capable of being smart about it.

Copyright is far from being iron clad protection. It is pretty weak when you think about it. Except in the case of out right copying someones work. That is the only time it really protects you.

To make it clear, copyright only really protects someone from having their work copied, word for word. Change the presentation, change the layout, change the look of the charts and graphs you use, change XP charts numerical progression, and your good to go.

The 4E "SYSTEM" is not protected by copyright, despite several people on this board claiming otherwise. US Copyright law very clearly states that systems, mechanics, etc... are "In no case..." protected by copyright.

The copyright WOTC has for "D20 System" are for those words only, not the system itself.

Don't believe me? Go to the US Copyright application website and use their search function to look up WOTC's copyrighted stuff. No system is copyrighted. Only words are.

The copyright route is nothing to be feared, just travel the route carefully.

 

[Treebore]

Oh, and TSR lost most of their lawsuits. They won maybe two. I believe neither came down to copyright law, but other issues. I would have to look those up again.