4E being immune to criticism (forked from Sentimentality And D&D...)

[mearls]

I think that before typing sentences such as this, one should pause for a moment and consider if that is, in fact, at all likely. In general, RPG message boards, like dutch ovens full of frying fat, run hot and occasionally catch on fire.

I've actually thought about it several times recently, not just now. I've been on various gaming fora dating back to Usenet. I was with Malhavoc when they went with DRM. I remember the reaction to the end of the print versions of Dungeon and Dragon magazines.

The problem I see now is that, while in the past things would heat up and then cool down, we seem to have settled into a higher background temperature. Maybe it's just the economy, maybe there's an underlying sense of panic that one's D&D of choice is going to die, but things just seem more shrill than usual.

Meh. Maybe I'm just too old and jaded for gaming forums! Maybe if everyone claps their hands and just wishes ever so hard, I'll brighten up!

 

[FireLance]

Meh. Maybe I'm just too old and jaded for gaming forums! Maybe if everyone claps their hands and just wishes ever so hard, I'll brighten up!

But, you removed wish from 4e!

Kidding.

 

[Jasperak]

I think there's a subtext to the 4e discussions that effectively makes analyzing the game almost pointless.

Both pro- and anti-4e posters seem to have this belief that there's this war going on, and by arguing on the Internet they're fighting against the other side. It's like, if you're loud enough, and obnoxious enough, and constant enough, the vision you have for how D&D should be played will become a reality for everyone.

Frankly, I'm sick of fanaticism on all sides. It's undermining the entire online RPG community. It's a far angrier, far less welcoming place than it was not too long ago.

Wow. WOTC redesigns the game in such a way that alienates a significant portion of the community and expects that significant portion to what? Go away? Keep quiet? Grudgingly buy the books anyway?

This fracture comes directly from WOTC because of the design choices they made and direction they took D&D in.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Wow. WOTC redesigns the game in such a way that alienates a significant portion of the community and expects that significant portion to what? Go away? Keep quiet? Grudgingly buy the books anyway?

This fracture comes directly from WOTC because of the design choices they made and direction they took D&D in.

How long will the whining continue? At what point will people get on with their lives?

 

[Jasperak]

How long will the whining continue? At what point will people get on with their lives?

When the people doing the whining don't care anymore. I would expect that time to be when they: have returned to previous editions, have accepted 4e for what it is, or have moved on to other systems or hobbies.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Wow. WOTC redesigns the game in such a way that alienates a significant portion of the community and expects that significant portion to what? Go away? Keep quiet? Grudgingly buy the books anyway?

My answer is that they should keep playing the old game or find a new one. Pathfinder works for me.

This fracture comes directly from WOTC because of the design choices they made and direction they took D&D in.

See, I get the frustration because I also feel it, but the thing to remember is that WotC owns a brand. They do not own your game. And if you don't like the direction they went with 4E, then ignore it. I walked away from the boards for a while, played other games, pretended the ENWorld didn't exist, and ultimately came to the conclusion that the problem wasn't WotC for wanting to reinvent D&D in a way that is more profitable, or with the people who like the new game, but with me because I was too inflexible to just accept that change happened. My friends like to play a variety of games and they'll happily play any game I want to run. I'm not forced to run 4E or play it. Nobody is. There's enough material out there for the version of the game I prefer and it isn't like they need to be continually making more in order for me to keep playing.

On a related nore, I don't like anime either, so should I get upset with the people who like anime? I do like the Star Wars Clone Wars TV series, so should I get upset with the people who don't like Clone Wars? I like Star Trek TNG more than any of the other Trek spinoffs. Does that mean that I should get upset at those who like Voyager best? I like both the new BSG and the old BSG, and readily accept both as good.

I think we all just need to stop trying to "win" this and just play whatever game we like.

 

[mearls]

It's gonna be all right, Mike! I promise! In a world with kittens like that, how can it not be?!

Man, with all due respect, the more I look at those kittens the more they are seriously freaking me the hell out.

 

[FireLance]

Wow. WOTC redesigns the game in such a way that alienates a significant portion of the community and expects that significant portion to what? Go away? Keep quiet? Grudgingly buy the books anyway?

This fracture comes directly from WOTC because of the design choices they made and direction they took D&D in.

Indeed. If WotC had simply designed an edition that everyone hated, opinions about the game wouldn't have been so polarized.

Unfortunately, they've managed to produce an edition that some people can't stop talking about how much they hate, and others can't stop talking about how much they love.

That said, I doubt that WotC would design a game that is deliberately intended to alienate parts of the gaming community. I think the key driving force behind 4e was appeal, not alienation. It was intended to appeal to people who had felt that certain aspects of 3e negatively impacted their play experience, and (perhaps more importantly) people who are not playing D&D.

In other words, if you didn't have a problem with 3e, keep playing 3e. If you had problems with 3e, but don't like the changes made by 4e, find someone else to fix them for you. If nobody seems interested in fixing them in the way that you want, fix them yourself (thinking carefully about why nobody wants to fix them in the way that you want is an optional step).

 

[Nifft]

Wow. WOTC redesigns the game in such a way that alienates a significant portion of the community and expects that significant portion to what? Go away? Keep quiet? Grudgingly buy the books anyway?

They just make games. Any alienation you feel is not due to any particular edition of this game.

Play the game you want to play. If it's any kind of D&D, you'll find support for it here, if not many other places on the web.

But if all you want to do is complain about some imagined slight... could you do it elsewhere? Please?

Thanks, -- N

 

[FireLance]

On a related nore, I don't like anime either, so should I get upset with the people who like anime? I do like the Star Wars Clone Wars TV series, so should I get upset with the people who don't like Clone Wars? I like Star Trek TNG more than any of the other Trek spinoffs. Does that mean that I should get upset at those who like Voyager best?

Depends on whether you would rather enjoy the stuff you like, or try to make sure that nobody enjoys the stuff you don't like.