Stat Polarity and the new PHB2 feat

[Sadrik]

Looking at the new PHB2 feat that allows characters to use their highest stat for basic attacks gives me some ideas for fixing stat polarity. All characters are evened out with their basic attacks. This might be a good idea to do with defenses too.

Defenses could start like this:
Fortitude = 10 + CON + 1/2 level
Reflexes = 10 + DEX + 1/2 level + shield (AC + Armor)
Will = 10 + WIS + 1/2 level

Give three heroic tier feats that can allow Will saves, Reflex saves, and Fortitude saves to be applied to any stat. This follows in line with the new feat that allows characters to use any stat with their basic attacks.

So you can use your DEX for Fortitude or your STR for Will or your CON for Reflexes/AC. This actually makes the most sense to me. And it gives it that 4e feel. I would say that you can only apply one defense to each stat. No rogues with using DEX for Fortitude, Will and Reflexes/AC.

This may help certain classes too much initially (those that use CON, DEX and WIS). So this option is in play: simply give all these feats up front as bonus feats and chalk it up to the "feel" 4e is supposed to have - no inborn weaknesses. This will maximize their defense and offense out of the starting gate.

A first level Fighter might look like:
Fighter (Dragonborn)
Level 1
STR 20 WILL 10 + STR(5) = 15
CON 11
DEX 14 FORTITUDE 10 + DEX(2) = 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 12 REFLEXES/AC 10 + CHA(1) + plate armor(8) + shield(2) = 13/20

BASIC ATTACKS
Long Sword STR +9/1d8+6
Long Bow STR +9/1d10+5

FEATS
Weapon Focus Heavy Blades

TRAITS
+1 w/one-handed weapons
Dragon Breath +7/1d6
Dragonborn Fury (+1 to attack when bloodied)

POWERS
All based off of STR

 

[Nymrohd]

Too much MAD is bad. Too little MAD is bad as well. You don't want to end up with everything based on one ability score.

 

[Sadrik]

Too much MAD is bad. Too little MAD is bad as well. You don't want to end up with everything based on one ability score.

Covering up shortfalls is all about what Stat Polarity and the new PHB2 feat are about. I don't think that this rule in any way goes in some weird tangential direction from the designers intent it simply recalibrates it slightly to allow for characters to use any stat for any purpose. This is the 4e way. If a character can use INT for AC why cant he use CON for AC or CHA for basic attacks?

Does it create reliance on a single uni-bloated stat? Hell yeah, but it is already there.

To reiterate my initial post there are two options:
1. Start defenses off with CON/DEX/WIS as their base. Then add three feats that allow you to select the stat you want to apply the defense to (never duplicating a single stat).

2. Give those three feats along with the new PHB2 feat for basic attacks as free bonus feats.

 

[Obryn]

Covering up shortfalls is all about what Stat Polarity and the new PHB2 feat are about. I don't think that this rule in any way goes in some weird tangential direction from the designers intent it simply recalibrates it slightly to allow for characters to use any stat for any purpose. This is the 4e way. If a character can use INT for AC why cant he use CON for AC or CHA for basic attacks?

Does it create reliance on a single uni-bloated stat? Hell yeah, but it is already there.

To reiterate my initial post there are two options:
1. Start defenses off with CON/DEX/WIS as their base. Then add three feats that allow you to select the stat you want to apply the defense to (never duplicating a single stat).

2. Give those three feats along with the new PHB2 feat for basic attacks as free bonus feats.

You're not making real suggestions here - just griping, right?

-O

 

[Sadrik]

You're not making real suggestions here - just griping, right?

Yes my major gripe of the 4e rules is the stat polarity problem. This is a fix. Care to comment on it?

To the point I think it might be better to have it be a single feat that allows you to rework your defenses rather than three.

Defensive Training
Benefit: Select the abilities you would like your defenses tied to. No ability can have more than one defense except Reflexes and Armor Class are always tied to the same ability.

 

[77IM]

I agree that stat polarity is a problem, but I'm not sure about this fix. At some point, too much ability switcheroo causes abilities to lose all meaning.

Like, instead of the classic 6 abilities, you could probably just have three ability scores:

Primary: Governs stuff you care about; attack, damage, one defense, some of your class skills.
Secondary: Governs stuff you kind of care about; power effects aside from attack and damage, two defenses, attack and damage of multiclass powers, and some class skills and some other skills.
Tertiary: Governs stuff you don't care about; your fourth defense, some non-class skills.

Specific classes would say which stuff use which ability score. For example, fighter might use Pri for basic melee attacks and hit points; wizard uses Ter for those, but could take feats to use Pri instead.

-- 77IM

 

[Garthanos]

What feat is this? I didnt see it in the preview material I looked at... I dont have a subscription maybe...

 

[ppaladin123]

What feat is this? I didnt see it in the preview material I looked at... I dont have a subscription maybe...

You are in the house rules forum. They are discussing unofficial changes.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

I agree that stat polarity is a problem, but I'm not sure about this fix. At some point, too much ability switcheroo causes abilities to lose all meaning.

Like, instead of the classic 6 abilities, you could probably just have three ability scores:

Primary: Governs stuff you care about; attack, damage, one defense, some of your class skills.
Secondary: Governs stuff you kind of care about; power effects aside from attack and damage, two defenses, attack and damage of multiclass powers, and some class skills and some other skills.
Tertiary: Governs stuff you don't care about; your fourth defense, some non-class skills.

Specific classes would say which stuff use which ability score. For example, fighter might use Pri for basic melee attacks and hit points; wizard uses Ter for those, but could take feats to use Pri instead.

-- 77IM

Brilliant!

 

[Garthanos]

You are in the house rules forum. They are discussing unofficial changes.

The first sentence of the first post in this thread starts out claiming to refer to a feat from the phb2.... then goes on to make house rules that are supposedly an extension of that idea....