WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs

[mach1.9pants]

I know this hasn't been a beautiful walk in the park, so thanks for taking the time to contribute to the conversation.

Especially not for you and the guys'n'gals at CustServ I guess, chin up

 

[joethelawyer]

Isn't "Joethelawyer" a Lawyer?

Regarding the law, I tried to look up the cases on PACER and they aren't showing up. I couldn't enter the numbers MerricB copied her from Wizards, as they weren't the exact format, but I don't see any cases in the Western Washington PACER system. The only reason they should be omitted would I guess be if the court records were ordered sealed, but I'm not sure this case qualifies as one to be sealed. Could a real lawyer explain why these records wouldn't show up in PACER?

Actually, I called up WOTC's legal separtment today and asked them if they could email me the pdf's (hehe) of the 3 court filings. They are looking into it in order to see if they can do such a thing.

I also called the Federal Court out there today and asked if they could send me the pleadings in pdf. They would only send it in paper format. It's not worth the 5 or 6 bucks and probable few day wait to get them. I'm not that interested. If anyone else here wants to do it and scan them in, I'd be interested to read them though. The clerk didn't say anything about them being sealed.

I've never used the PACER system, so I am not sure why they wouldn't show up yet, unless its too early. There might be a delay. I did ask the clerk why two of the files have a 3 letter suffix different than the other one. She said it was because 2 files were assigned to one judge, and one went to another judge. Who knows why. I assume its standard operating procedure.

 

[avin]

I know this hasn't been a beautiful walk in the park, so thanks for taking the time to contribute to the conversation.

We have another topic here, about Scott Rouse, just let me know if my "scotch" theory wins...

By the way: checked repercussion on Slashdot?

 

[Brown Jenkin]

A little more info for us to digest from ars technica's article with quotes from Wizards of the Coast PR Manager Tolena Thorburn.

Wizards of the Coast fails saving throw against pirates - Ars Technica

Her quotes are as follows

On the removal of the files

We have relationships, contracts with those companies [that provided the downloads] What we did is we terminated our contracts. When we terminated the contracts, the files come down. The reason? The severe increase of piracy of the products.

At what point was the action neccesary

There wasn't a specific number for us, these lawsuits, which are public information, you would see that this specifically revolves around the players handbooks. They were released and, the same day, there were thousands of copies being downloaded illegally. It's very frustrating for us.

Is there a way to download legally

There should not be. You can buy the books online, but not the pdfs. [Wizards is] actively exploring other avenues for digital distribution.

It's a difficult problem to have, and it's one that plagues our industry. We didn't do this lightly, and we understand our fans enjoy that format. Most of the fans who have legally purchased PDFs are also customers who have the physical product. Until we have another digital solution, I think our fans at least are not being deprived of the product, and I think that's really important, that they have the product that they know and love.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I've never used the PACER system, so I am not sure why they wouldn't show up yet, unless its too early. There might be a delay. I did ask the clerk why two of the files have a 3 letter suffix different than the other one. She said it was because 2 files were assigned to one judge, and one went to another judge. Who knows why. I assume its standard operating procedure.

Actually, I see them NOW!!

I'll have them in a few minutes. It's cheaper to get them from PACER.

I don't feel like Transcribing the PDFs, though. Would there be a place to attach PDF files here?

 

[mach1.9pants]

It's a difficult problem to have, and it's one that plagues our industry. We didn't do this lightly, and we understand our fans enjoy that format. Most of the fans who have legally purchased PDFs are also customers who have the physical product. Until we have another digital solution, I think our fans at least are not being deprived of the product, and I think that's really important, that they have the product that they know and love.

My bold Yes they are being deprived of a product! Just bizarre corporate speak, what if you know and love PDFs?
This sort of we know what the fans want type statement makes my blood boil!

 

[CleverNickName]

I think Paizo's relative success (i.e. lack of high-volume torrents) has a lot to do with how well they instill a sense of customer loyalty. Their subscription plans give people a feeling of getting an awesome deal, what with the free PDF and across-the-board discount.

Overall, I think they're a very good example of how to make money in the face of piracy.

Absolutely. I think that Hasbro could learn a thing or two from Paizo in this department.

 

[joethelawyer]

Actually, I see them NOW!!

I'll have them in a few minutes. It's cheaper to get them from PACER.

I don't feel like Transcribing the PDFs, though. Would there be a place to attach PDF files here?

there is an attachment mechanism with the posts here.

 

[xechnao]

That's not what you're determining though.

You're determining if your sales are down from what they "should" be and then looking for causes.

If you determine:

Sales are not down due to lack of interest.
Pirating is UP (and the amount of increased pirating roughly coorelates to the loss of sales.)

I'd say that's a reasonable start to show that entering high quality easy to pirate PDFs into the market is a contributing factor to sales being down.

I doubt that the demographics of d&d products' market are that easy to do even for them. You do understand that on scale a 10% differentiation is pretty major regarding your sales -business wise. And that is a 10% differentiation of things you can measure. And higher differentiations from your estimates are not uncommon I guess.

Now imagine trying to estimate things you cant measure such as damage from piracy or level of interest as you say. You cant even figure out the result of your estimation.

Charles Ryan speculated about "trends" (even if he was only talking about piracy). I would say that one should rather more generally try to think about trends if he wanted to be more correct about perception possibilities on our demographic ground: trying to spot trends and make policies than trying to figure out numbers. It is mostly an empiric thing. And the target market wants to and gets to know its trends too. Eventually, policy and trend should be connected with a kind of feedback mechanism -if the business marketing department is successful that is.

The question now is what their true policy seems to be behind this current event (if there will be change or if it will remain like this) and this is fairly important to the members of this(our) demographic -at least on the net (as it seems so far) because it may influence our trends and we want to know that. So was it really about a new trend in piracy (contrary to the good sale numbers we have been advertised with by various magazines) or is it really something else? Perhaps some other kind of policy regarding pdfs and/or retailers? And since fans seem to trust the marketing department of Wotc they consider it important to figure out what policies the marketing does carry on.

 

[jdrakeh]

Until we have another digital solution, I think our fans at least are not being deprived of the product, and I think that's really important, that they have the product that they know and love.

This was part of the article that I commented on at Ars Technica. I have to wonder what was going through her mind when she made this comment. I mean, she is aware that they pulled the entire back catalog of OOP products from commercial circulation, right?

Unless she knows something that I don't, fans absolutely are being deprived of access to these products.

Maybe Ms. Thorburn can prove me wrong, though. Maybe Ms. Thorburn can tell us all where to easily, legally, and affordably obtain copies of Supplement 1: Greyhawk with Gary's notes hand stenciled in the margins now that WotC's official PDFs are off the table.