Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder - sell me

[dm4hire]

Yes, I am greedily waiting to acquire my copies. Have at least one home campaign that will be changing over to it as we’re still running 3.5 and my game club runs Pathfinder Society as well. I might even start up a second home campaign.

I really like the changes presented in the beta for the cleric which is why I started playing them again in Pathfinder. Positive energy that turns and heals at the same time is a lot simpler than sacking spells as I don’t know how many games I’ve gone where turning served no purpose and therefore was pointless to have. It definitely keeps the ability in use for the cleric.

 

[Jack99]

I don't think anything got nerfed. It's more about bringing other classes up to CoD level. On the whole there's a slight power bump in the Beta, but nothing like 4e.

You think or know? Because if they bring all classes up to CoDzilla level, they are going to have to revamp the entire monster/encounter system, or every single party will walk all over ECL+4 encounters. It's an interesting idea. Just turn everything up to 20 and then adjust the monsters.

Unfortunately, due to the magic system in 3.5, this is simply not possible. The only way of bringing the martial classes up to par, is to have them cast the same spells as the spellcasters

My guess is that they have simply made the gap (a little?) smaller, because a lot of those who want to play PF like that spellcasters are clearly superior to the rest, so why change too much and risk alienating people?

Either way, although I will never play PF, I am looking forward reading the book, just to see what 3.5 could/should have been.

Cheers

 

[rounser]

Unfortunately, due to the magic system in 3.5, this is simply not possible.

Um, that's complete and utter nonsense, IMO.

You could give fighters +20 BAB per level, crits from 2-20, 10 attacks per level per round, spell resistance, regeneration, d100 hit dice, plot protection and a permanent protection from losing combat, 15" radius aura, and they could own spellcasters with a plank of wood with a nail in it. It'd be silly but it'd disprove your "not possible". "Everyone's a pseudo-spellcaster" is just IMO a misguided design ideology, not a mandatory edict.

 

[Jack99]

Um, that's complete and utter nonsense, IMO.

You could give fighters +20 BAB per level, crits from 2-20, 10 attacks per level per round, spell resistance, regeneration, d100 hit dice, plot protection and a permanent protection from losing combat, 15" radius aura, and they could own spellcasters with a plank of wood with a nail in it. It'd be silly but it'd disprove your "not possible". "Everyone's a pseudo-spellcaster" is just IMO a misguided design ideology, not a mandatory edict.

Holy Hyperbole!

Yes, because that is clearly a design possibility while still having a game that anyone besides your mother will buy. The comment is obviously meant within realistic design parameters.

 

[rounser]

The comment is obviously meant within realistic design parameters.

I still consider your comment utter nonsense, even within realistic design parameters. Reductio ad absurdum was just to show you a possibility or two, to expand your notion of what is "possible". You made no such qualifications when you made the statement.

"I don't see how it's possible without everyone being a pseudo-spellcaster" is a very, very limited view of what is possible with good game design. (And I don't consider "everyone is a pseudo-spellcaster" to be good game design for D&D.)

 

[ruemere]

You think or know? Because if they bring all classes up to CoDzilla level, they are going to have to revamp the entire monster/encounter system, or every single party will walk all over ECL+4 encounters. It's an interesting idea. Just turn everything up to 20 and then adjust the monsters.

PFRPG Beta does contain revamped encounter system (PFRPG Beta, pages 290 - 291).

Unfortunately, due to the magic system in 3.5, this is simply not possible. The only way of bringing the martial classes up to par, is to have them cast the same spells as the spellcasters

My guess is that they have simply made the gap (a little?) smaller, because a lot of those who want to play PF like that spellcasters are clearly superior to the rest, so why change too much and risk alienating people?

If you'd like to review BETA changes for yourself, PFRPG Beta is available as a free download.
Otherwise, feel free to use my opinion:
- all classes were a little pumped up in terms of number of features,
- features of martial class offered distinctively more in terms of raw power than those of spellcasting classes,
- spellcasters still reign supreme, however some most obvious game breakers (polymoprh spells, some divinations) were changed.

Either way, although I will never play PF, I am looking forward reading the book, just to see what 3.5 could/should have been.[...]

Beta makes for a good reading, too.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Jack99]

Snip

Thanks. I have read one version the beta, although very quickly, and my comments were based on impressions of that.

I still consider your comment utter nonsense, even within realistic design parameters. Reductio ad absurdum was just to show you a possibility or two, to expand your notion of what is "possible". You made no such qualifications when you made the statement.

"I don't see how it's possible without everyone being a pseudo-spellcaster" is a very, very limited view of what is possible with good game design. (And I don't consider "everyone is a pseudo-spellcaster" to be good game design for D&D.)

Well, if you want to stay true to 3.x, I do believe it is. And 9 years and a gazillion of 3PP products have yet to prove me wrong. But of course it is possible, after all, 4e D&D has solved the problem. But 4e is hardly backwards compatible with 3.x, which is one of the tenets of PF, afaik.

 

[rounser]

Well, if you want to stay true to 3.x, I do believe it is.

Being compatible with 3E is not "staying true to it" unless everyone must be subordinate to CODzilla? That's "staying true to 3E"? Being purposefully broken with CODzilla, and anything that corrects this is no longer "true to 3E"?

More nonsense, but I applaud you for attempting to disguise the Catch 22 in your argument, it's a beautiful contrived paradox: 3E is broken, so any system that aspires to be "true to it" must ergo be broken in kind, and cannot fix CODzilla whilst still remaining "true"! It's nonsense, but artful nonsense, I'll give you that.

 

[Runestar]

Are you sure special maneuvers got a boost? Trip, one of the few viable special attacks in 3e, seemed to get nerfed very badly.

The revisions to the various classes seemed fairly cosmetic on a whole. If anything, it seems spellcasters are stronger than ever. The so-called "improvements" to fighters don't really do anything to address their main flaw - lack of options (everything the warblade is).

I am getting the impression that while the designers of pathfinder did perhaps set out to "right" 3.5e, the problem was that they did not really know where the actual problems stemmed from. It really seems like a haphazard bundle of house rules. Fairly hit-and-miss, I daresay they are potentially creating as many new problems as they are purportedly fixing, if not more.

At best, it would be different from 3.5, not better, IMO.

 

[Nikosandros]

I am getting the impression that while the designers of pathfinder did perhaps set out to "right" 3.5e, the problem was that they did not really know where the actual problems stemmed from.

Or maybe, they simply don't share your opinion about what the actual problems are...