Necromancer Games-update by Orcus

[carmachu]

Also agreed. The first GSL did NOT fail. It worked just as it was meant to work. It drove people away from 3PP and kept 3PP out of Wotc's pond.

One could argue it didnt work quite as they intended. If the intention was to keep folks buying "in house" ie---Wotc 4e, it also drove people further into the hands of their favorite 3PP.....

But did keep a good chunk of the betetr 3pp out of the 4e waters.

 

[carmachu]

But its a mistake to ascribe a singular intent to Wizards. That is where the "Wizards wants to kill 3Ps" argument fails--because they simply dont have a singular voice or vision. That is one of the problems. They cant figure out their overall view on 3Ps.

I think they are waking up and considering that hey wait a minute, maybe they shouldnt make the exact same mistakes TSR made by thinking they are the market and everyone follows them and does whatever they want (yes, to some extent its true, but you cant simply ignore the market). I think there are some people coming around to see they handled this badly and are getting past the "we're Wizards, we dont care about you" arrogance. Problem is, now the market stinks and the economy is an issue and everyone is really risk averse. No one want to put their balls on the line and change course.

The problem is sir, that one only has to look at their actions and the results. Maybe it wasnt intential, maybe it was. But they cut the staff working on the GSL, delayed it for a while with the revisions and arent exactly jumping up and down to fix the situations.

Scott is a great person from your words, and a couple of others probably as well. But a handful of people,speaking on the openess of the OGL or a more open GSL doesnt quite cancel out WotC's actually actions.

Actions have always spoke louder than words. I still dont see Wotc/Wizards/Hasbro changing here. But thats just me.

To be honest, you still seem like your cheerleading with rosecolored glasses, rather than looking a bit more objectively. But thats just me.

 

[Piratecat]

Carmachu, for what it's worth I'll echo Orcus on that count. My experience hasn't shown me that WotC has a clear vision about third party publishers, and when that gets muddled then the more risk adverse parts of the company start muddying it up for the people who do have a clear vision but not the ultimate authority to impose it. Based on what I've seen, I'll include Scott Rouse and his team in that second part.

I think that's one of the reasons that Adkison/Dancey's WotC was so effective; the man in charge had a clear vision and mandate that was communicated well and carried out at all levels. Without Greg Leeds himself pushing it, I don't think that could be easily replicated today.

 

[Wicht]

I'm starting to see a pattern....granted take it with salt, but it seems like 4e fans are more likely to want the official items, where as those that stayed behind are much more likely to buy and use the 3rd party products....

Heh. I made that same observation on these boards a year ago or more when some 4e folks were suggesting Paizo would make more money selling 4e items because the 4e market was 'obviously' bigger.

 

[carmachu]

Carmachu, for what it's worth I'll echo Orcus on that count. My experience hasn't shown me that WotC has a clear vision about third party publishers, and when that gets muddled then the more risk adverse parts of the company start muddying it up for the people who do have a clear vision but not the ultimate authority to impose it. Based on what I've seen, I'll include Scott Rouse and his team in that second part.

I dont know what their vision is. But what I do know is what has happened- GSL fiasco, and whats not happening in major 3PP support. Ultimately their actions speak-whether its the authority doesnt want them along, or that their unsure how they want them along, in the end its still the same results.

 

[Qwillion]

Necromancer Games had a hell of a sweet spot for with the S&S brand, any company would have wanted that type of positioning, I am sure they struggled to regain that kind of distribution as a print publisher (examples of Kenzerco and Paizo partnerships come to mind) Now they will have to recreate themselves as a pdf and PoD publisher.

I hope that Necromancer Games has tremendous success.

 

[Dark Mistress]

Necromancer Games had a hell of a sweet spot for with the S&S brand, any company would have wanted that type of positioning, I am sure they struggled to regain that kind of distribution as a print publisher (examples of Kenzerco and Paizo partnerships come to mind) Now they will have to recreate themselves as a pdf and PoD publisher.

I hope that Necromancer Games has tremendous success.

Well a while back Necro was in talks with Paizo about partnering with them for publishing. I don't know if it happened for sure or not but i wouldn't be surprised if it did.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I dont know what their vision is. But what I do know is what has happened- GSL fiasco, and whats not happening in major 3PP support. Ultimately their actions speak-whether its the authority doesnt want them along, or that their unsure how they want them along, in the end its still the same results.

Again, I think the ENWorld community tends to overestimate the importance of 3PP. If 3PP are only a blip on the screen to WotC, can the GSL really be called a fiasco? Sure its a fiasco to OGL/3PP fans, but is it a fiasco to the larger D&D community or WotC/D&D itself?

I think things get muddled because of people's personal stake in things, and the fact that ENWorld seems to have a larger percentage of OGL/3PP fans than is the norm.

 

[carmachu]

Again, I think the ENWorld community tends to overestimate the importance of 3PP. If 3PP are only a blip on the screen to WotC, can the GSL really be called a fiasco? Sure its a fiasco to OGL/3PP fans, but is it a fiasco to the larger D&D community or WotC/D&D itself?

It helped frangment the community more than any other time. With hard feelings and hard lines.....which have finallly cooled more than a bit. I wouldnt exactly call it a blip.

Support wasnt right out of the gate, so I would say so, fiasco.

I think things get muddled because of people's personal stake in things, and the fact that ENWorld seems to have a larger percentage of OGL/3PP fans than is the norm.

Well one could also argue enworld has the more vocal members of the gaming community in total, no matter which side of the fence your on.

 

[BryonD]

and the fact that ENWorld seems to have a larger percentage of OGL/3PP fans than is the norm.

I believe you are absolutely right on that.

I believe there is a very high correlation between players who want more and more options and players who will get involved in online discussions of their hobby.

Most of the fan base is more casual. And most of them never even read a single post here.

Also, there are three tiers here (using a broad brush of course).
There are players who never come here, lurkers, and posters. The posters are going to be the most intensely involved of the three. And since they are the only ones posting, their opinions will be very over-stated.

(And yes, lots of exceptions, but that is the over-arching pattern)