3 Criteria some? RPG's fall into. :)

Hussar

Legend
/edit - edited the title to reflect facts. :p

Now, this is just my opinion, but, for my money, there are three fairly broad criteria that almost all rpg's fall into. I would say all, but, there are so many RPG's out there, there's almost for certain some that wouldn't. :) But, these three criteria are useful for distinguishing what defines a game as an RPG.

1. Role Assumption.

The game itself presumes that the players of the game will assume some sort of role (or possibly a small number of roles). This role is usually different from the player's personality in some way - different age, different species, different capabilities, etc. There are mechanics in place in the game which define a character within the fictional game world.

2. Narrative.

Events in an RPG are presumed to follow logically. If you do X, then doing Y should be believably possible. If I take my character to a restaurant, I can order a meal. However, I could not take my character into the middle of a desert and then order a meal. Events follow believable paths.

3. Persistence.

There is an assumption in the game that events that occur in previous play sessions will carry over into the next session and subsequent sessions. Consequences carry over. The player is assumed to continue playing the same role and play can possibly continue for very extended periods of time. Generally, there is no "reset" for players which resets the entire game to be played a second time.

To me, these are the three basic criteria for an RPG.

Something like Monopoly fails to be an RPG, because while role assumption might be arguable, there is nothing in the rules for persistence. When someone wins a game of Monopoly, that win does not carry over into the next game. Every game is closed.

It is possible, however, to alter games to become more and more like a role playing game. Take Warhammer. In a standard Warhammer game (not the RPG), there is no role assumption (at least, the rules don't assume one), and there is no narrative. There's no reason why two forces of X points are meeting in battle. There's no reason why both forces are almost always equal. And there is no persistence.

However, if you take a Warhammer ladder, then you can start to see a role playing game. You get persistence, it's possible to add roles to the leaders of armies (the players) and it's possible to get a narrative. Depending on how much focus you start to shift onto role assumption and the like, you can turn Warhammer into a role playing game.

However, that doesn't mean that Warhammer is an RPG. It's not. It's just that turning a game into an RPG isn't always very difficult.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

You can play an RPG without persistence. I assume we all know what a one-shot game is. Narrative can be ditched to if the GM is crazy enough. However, I am nitpicking. Most/Some of the time, you are right about RPGs using those three things.
 

Hussar

Legend
While I agree that you can play an RPG without persistence, it's still there in the rules. Any game with character advancement rules assumes persistence and that's the vast majority of rpg's out there.

However, I'm not sure if narrative can honestly be ditched. Unless the campaign consists of opening the monster manual to page one, declaring, "Arracocra, FIGHT!" and then proceeding all the way to zombie, you are most likely going to have narrative. Certainly the game presumes it.

Whether a particular table chooses to eject that presumption is another matter entirely.

Thinking about this a bit further, I would tentatively add a 4th criteria.

4. Co-operative Play

One of the biggest differences between RPG's and pretty much any game which came before it is the fact that everyone at the table is working together. Even the GM/DM/Referee/whatever is, at worst, supposed to be neutral. He or she is not supposed to compete with the rest of the table. In fact, should he choose to compete, he wins. Every time.

"The ground swallows you up, and you die" DM wins. :)

Everyone at the table is working together to keep the game going. Competetive play at the table is often actively discouraged. This is a feature of RPG's that rarely appears anywhere else.
 

TheNovaLord

First Post
loads indie games especially that are very 'player versus player' compared to the traditional 'player versus environment/GM'

there are lots that have no persistence / advancement system at all. They are what they are, like a snapshot in time, say similar to a murder-mystery box set in place. The stage is set, and the end is a final of its end.....so say Montsegur_1244, 6 bullets for vengeance and a whole tranche of indie stuff

not wholly sure that point 2. Narrative, actually then matches have you define it, either?

maybe your definitions, and the added point 4, match games says 10-15 years or more ago, but things have moved on.
 

Asmor

First Post
There are lots of indie games which heavily favor one-shot games, perhaps with some advancement rules tacked on. I suppose you might argue that they have built-in persistence.

But take, for example, Dread. There's simply no way you can argue that game has any sort of persistence.

Thus, your third point is disproven.
 

Hussar

Legend
Actually, Asmor, listening to the Fear the Boot podcast, one of the caster's there (Chad) is stoked to play in a sequel game of Dread where his character is continuing on to the next story. So, your particular example of me being wrong, is, well... wrong. :)

TheNovaLord: Can you give some examples of player vs player RPG's? I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, I'm actually curious. Although:

not wholly sure that point 2. Narrative, actually then matches have you define it, either?

I'm sorry, I don't understand this line.
 

Actually, Asmor, listening to the Fear the Boot podcast, one of the caster's there (Chad) is stoked to play in a sequel game of Dread where his character is continuing on to the next story. So, your particular example of me being wrong, is, well... wrong. :)

I tend to think that it shows that one may have Persistence, but that Persistence is not required.

joe b.
 

Ariosto

First Post
A clear exception to the "no PvP" rule is Gangbusters. And the social climbing in En Garde is often literally over the bodies of rivals felled in duels. Of course, that really goes back to the original D&D (and proto-D&D) campaign structure in Blackmoor and later Greyhawk.

The Cleric class originated to oppose player-Vampire Sir Fang.

"Under special circumstances and in large campaigns, it is possible to allow the character of the assassin. Only humans will become assassins. Assassins are always neutral."

Gygax related the Temple of Elemental Evil affair in the introduction to that module.

Etc..
 
Last edited:

GrimGent

First Post
TheNovaLord: Can you give some examples of player vs player RPG's? I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, I'm actually curious.
Well, how about Amber Diceless, particularly in the Throne War mode? Even the attributes only describe how the PCs relate to each other in various areas of expertise, not what they can accomplish in the setting at large: Strength might indicate that your character is weaker than his sister and stronger than his brother, for instance, but the rank doesn't really have anything to do with how much he can lift unless you are actually competing against some of those other siblings.
 


Remove ads

Top