Simple House Rule for Ritual Casting - thoughts?

[weem]

"eepop" over at RPG.net posted this house rule for the way they run Ritual Casting and I really like the idea. So, I thought I would drop it over here to see what others thought from a balance standpoint etc.

He said...

We use a lot of house rules, so there are probably other things that impact this, but for rituals we specifically use:

"A ritual caster gains one prepared ritual slot each level. This slot can be used to prepare a ritual of that level or lower. A level 5 caster for instance, would be able to prepare a level 5 ritual, a level 4 ritual, a level 3 ritual, a level 2 ritual, and a level 1 ritual. He must be trained in one of the rituals primary skills and cannot prepare a travel ritual or any ritual that creates or destroys a magical item. Prepared rituals are performed at 1 standard action for every 10 minutes of the original ritual cost and cost no components. Using rituals not prepared follow the Rules as Written."

This has worked well for the levels we have used it at (up to 15ish).

Like I said, I really like the idea/feel of this - so do two of my players I have shown it to. But I want to see what others think.

Thanks

 

[Stalker0]

I think reducing casting times on rituals is fine...up to a point.

In my game, I made most rituals only 1 minute to cast, and that has worked well.

However, there are a few rituals where 1 round casting times would be way too powerful...because it can be used immediately in combat with no additional cost (other than the normal ritual cost)...and that allows you to do things in combat that were never intended.

 

[weem]

...In my game, I made most rituals only 1 minute to cast, and that has worked well...

That's cool - I mean, one minute IS better than 10... but one minute is still 10 rounds, and we would like to have the ability to use some in combat (no one would ever spend 10 rounds to use "Knock" on a door in combat).

And that is probably fine for you, and most others as well - after all, as per rules it would be 100 rounds, so it is obvious they were never meant to be used in combat... but that doesn't mean we don't want them to be, or should never try making something work

I know this has been looked at and rehashed from many angles already, I just found this idea promising. Maybe if the DM managed a list of Rituals that COULD be used in such a system... rituals that were "okay'd" to be accessed via a Standard action. It would take some work, but might be a better way - I'm not sure.

 

[Amaroq]

Certainly playing with the Ritual rules is fine from a DM's perspective .. we do it in my campaign, but I haven't gone so far as to grant it as a Standard action. A lot of the "easy" things wind up fitting conveniently into a 5-minute-rest ...

On the other hand, "serious" things like creating a high-level magic item wind up taking much more time than by RAW, so that they don't even fit into an Extended Rest.

 

[Stalker0]

I know this has been looked at and rehashed from many angles already, I just found this idea promising. Maybe if the DM managed a list of Rituals that COULD be used in such a system... rituals that were "okay'd" to be accessed via a Standard action. It would take some work, but might be a better way - I'm not sure.

This is likely your best solution. There are many rituals that are fine as 1 round, and some that are not. By taking the time to create such a list, you should find the experience you are looking for.

 

[Starfox]

I would prefer a solution using some kind of easy skill challenge. Say you need 3 successes - if most of the party cooperates it can be done in one round but it is costly.

 

[Dragonblade]

This is my house ruled Ritual Casting action:

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Ritual Casting: Standard action

Can only perform minor actions – While using the Ritual Casting action, the only other actions a character can perform are Minor actions.

Combat Advantage – Until the beginning of your next turn, you grant combat advantage.

Provoke Opportunity Attacks – Ritual casting provokes opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies.

Casting time – The default time required to perform a ritual is outlined in the description of the ritual. This time can be reduced by performing skill checks.

Skill check – Make a Moderate difficulty skill check using the key skill specified in the ritual description. If you succeed, the Standard action you spent casting the ritual counts toward the time required to perform the ritual as if you had spent 1 minute performing the ritual. Every 5 points by which you exceed the DC counts as another minute. Once you begin performing a ritual you must continue to use the Ritual Casting action every round until you fulfill the time requirement, at which time the ritual takes effect. Otherwise, the rules for interrupting a ritual apply normally.

Final effect – A completed ritual takes effect at the end of the turn you fulfilled all the time and other requirements. Follow the rules under the ritual description as normal. If a skill check is required to determine the effect, make that skill check separately from any skill checks made to reduce the time requirement.

Aid Another – Up to 4 others can assist you in performing the ritual per the Aid Another action. They do not need to know the ritual to assist you.

 

[weem]

This is my house ruled Ritual Casting action:

-------

Ritual Casting: Standard action

Can only perform minor actions – While using the Ritual Casting action, the only other actions a character can perform are Minor actions.

Combat Advantage – Until the beginning of your next turn, you grant combat advantage.

Provoke Opportunity Attacks – Ritual casting provokes opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies.

Casting time – The default time required to perform a ritual is outlined in the description of the ritual. This time can be reduced by performing skill checks.

Skill check – Make a Moderate difficulty skill check using the key skill specified in the ritual description. If you succeed, the Standard action you spent casting the ritual counts toward the time required to perform the ritual as if you had spent 1 minute performing the ritual. Every 5 points by which you exceed the DC counts as another minute. Once you begin performing a ritual you must continue to use the Ritual Casting action every round until you fulfill the time requirement, at which time the ritual takes effect. Otherwise, the rules for interrupting a ritual apply normally.

Final effect – A completed ritual takes effect at the end of the turn you fulfilled all the time and other requirements. Follow the rules under the ritual description as normal. If a skill check is required to determine the effect, make that skill check separately from any skill checks made to reduce the time requirement.

Aid Another – Up to 4 others can assist you in performing the ritual per the Aid Another action. They do not need to know the ritual to assist you.

Very interesting.

I assume this has worked well for you, but I'm curious how long you have used it - EX: 1 campaign, levels 1 to 15 etc etc. Also, are there any rituals that are restricted/not allowed to be used in this way?

 

[Dragonblade]

Interestingly my players tend to not use Rituals very often. But its worked out fine when the players have used rituals in combat.

I don't see any rituals that are excessively unbalanced when performed in combat since I have seen very few with direct combat application. Plus the component cost is still there as well to act as an abuse deterrent.

I'm really curious to hear any arguments about why or how a ritual could be broken by allowing its use in combat. Resurrection is really the only one that jumps out at me, and really if the party is already down one PC, and are willing to risk everything by taking another PC out of the action for several rounds to try to bring back the fallen PC, well thats ok with me. Thats the kind of dramatic suspense filled scene I want in my game.

I love that staple scene of the fantasy genre where the caster is frantically trying to get some dramatic spell off that can help the party while the rest of the characters desparately try to defend them from dangerous foes.

I crafted my rules to encourage that play style. The restriction to only minor actions allows casters to sustain other spells or do other tasks that require minimal attention while still continuing the ritual. But I didn't want them moving around the battlefield, or using interrupts or reaction powers while involved in a ritual.

 

[weem]

Interestingly my players tend to not use Rituals very often. But its worked out fine when the players have used rituals in combat.

Yea, and I think most wouldn't in standard encounters - but I fully intend on developing encounters where they would come in very handy or are much more difficult without the help of specific rituals etc.

I don't see any rituals that are excessively unbalanced when performed in combat since I have seen very few with direct combat application. Plus the component cost is still there as well to act as an abuse deterrent.

Yea

I'm really curious to hear any arguments about why or how a ritual could be broken by allowing its use in combat. Resurrection is really the only one that jumps out at me, and really if the party is already down one PC, and are willing to risk everything by taking another PC out of the action for several rounds to try to bring back the fallen PC, well thats ok with me. Thats the kind of dramatic suspense filled scene I want in my game.

I'm curious as well, and yea, if they want to risk it all to get one person back so be it. Besides, based on some numbers I was running, it seems like a 10 minute ritual will, on average, require 2-3 rounds to get off. When you start going longer than that, you would have to give up most/all of a fight in order to dedicate time to the longer ones - and i think that's great.

I love that staple scene of the fantasy genre where the caster is frantically trying to get some dramatic spell off that can help the party while the rest of the characters desparately try to defend them from dangerous foes.

Yea, me too - and we build them into our encounters for the bad guys you know - kill the minions, while trying to stop the bad guy from getting a spell/ritual off etc - so I want the players to get in on that action as well.

I crafted my rules to encourage that play style. The restriction to only minor actions allows casters to sustain other spells or do other tasks that require minimal attention while still continuing the ritual. But I didn't want them moving around the battlefield, or using interrupts or reaction powers while involved in a ritual.

Very cool, I dig it. I have been running this by a few of my players (as well as some other options) - we're still trying to figure out a nice way of doing it - this looks good