L4W Discussion Thread IV

[Nebten]

If a region is a subset of background and you can't change out backgrounds, then you can't change out regions.

Regions are a type of background. This is the same for Forgotten Realms and Eberron. You cannot retrain backgrounds. Regions came about the time as FR did, and was made in comparison thus.

Yet under our house rules, you can switchout one region for another region using the rules provided above. Anything else would be switching into a background which you cannot do.

But if you want to open that door I'm sure many people will walk through it with you. Its not abuse if everybody can do, its favoritism if only one person is allowed.

 

[elecgraystone]

If a region is a subset of background and you can't change out backgrounds, then you can't change out regions.

However we can change regions here.

Regions are a type of background.

Already said and we have a rule that allows swapping them.

Yet under our house rules, you can switchout one region for another region using the rules provided above. Anything else would be switching into a background which you cannot do.

Again already stated. That's why I asked what the community thought and if I should make a proposal on it. I think as Kalidrev stated, it's the RAI of our houserule that you can switch out background benefits. It's understandable that backgrounds weren't stated in the houserule since they didn't exist in the PHB2 format when it was made.

 

[renau1g]

Its not abuse if everybody can do, its favoritism if only one person is allowed.

Again already stated. That's why I asked what the community thought and if I should make a proposal on it. I think as Kalidrev stated, it's the RAI of our houserule that you can switch out background benefits. It's understandable that backgrounds weren't stated in the houserule since they didn't exist in the PHB2 format when it was made.

I think elec was asking in general, not only just for his PC, which could have been accomplished via e-mail to the judges if he was looking for special treatment. As he noted PHB2 wasn't out when we created the regional benefits so they were created with the best barometer out there, the FR ones (ignoring the obviously broken Dragon ones, and the stupid Windrise Ports). Heck there's still members of the original PC's without a background benefit. If anyone wants to use their retraining 1/level to move the mechanical benefit of their background rather than swap a power or skill than I'm fine with that. It really doesn't stretch any imagination too much, heck if you retrain a skill it's like "ah man I knew how to pick that lock yesterday, but after sleeping I totally forget, but man do I know a lot about Arcana"

 

[elecgraystone]

Well said renau1g, I was asking more in the general 'can we do it' way vs 'can I do it' way. If the community would have said no, I'd have made a proposal for an amnesia exception. However since I'm not the only one with amnesia here even that wouldn't have just been for me.

For me, my character has a lot more background than when I started. It made sense to update her to one that fit her better than her default one, both in the actual background and the benefit. I'm glad that it seems ok to do that next time I level.

I think we've taken up enough space here on this. Nothing to see, move along.

 

[renau1g]

Just thought I'd remind everyone about the Character Status Page. Please try and keep it updated when you submit your PC for level up approval. I will look more closely to make sure it's updated when you submit. I went through a terribly painstaking hour of updating it based off of dimsdale's page that he keeps up (thanks dimsdale!). Thanks to those who've kept their up. I think it's a pretty valuable tool. Note: I've removed inactive/MIA/retired PC's from the list

L4W:Character Status - ENWiki

I've also attached a survey of the Status page which should be fairly representative of the current look of the Transitive Isles.

So, as expected Strikers are the most common class (38%), followed by Defenders (27%), Leaders (21%) and Controllers (15%)

Top Classes are Paladins (10%), Wizard, Fighter, Bard, Warlock & Ranger (8% each)

Top Races are Humans (a whopping 19%), followed by Longtooth Shifters and Half-Elves (8%) and then Devas (7%).

Full Results in Excel Document. Note: if you're making a new PC, best to check that page and look for the other low level PC's for a better feel of who's around at low levels.

 

[Oni]

That's really interesting. Controllers are so unpopular in general, but the Wizard is quite popular. Bard is right there in the mix even though it's a PHB2 class. I wonder why the Paladin is so hot? I would have thought warlocks would have been lower given how much people talk about them not being up to snuff. Poor shaman's got no love.

Dwarf is on your list twice.

 

[elecgraystone]

I would have thought warlocks would have been lower given how much people talk about them not being up to snuff.

While the warlock may not be at the top as far as damage, it's hard to beat their survivability. At least that's why I'm one. How many other strikers can fill in as a defender if needed?

And it good to see githyanki are more popular than tieflings, eladrins and halflings.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

Early on, warlocks were the only esoteric (read: non-martial) striker. They also easily lend themselves towards sinister characters, in both fluff (pacts, power descriptions) and mechanics (getting a bonus from enemies dying). That's why I picked one.

I'm not surprised Githyanki are popular. If you want Int and Con, which several classes/builds do, then you only have one choice. Unfortunately, NWN2's depiction of the Githyanki completely ruined my ability to take them seriously. Not that I would have played one anyway. Humans are best.

 

[Dekana]

I have a lot of trouble making what I would consider an impressive controller.
Fighters with battlerager vigor can do terrific damage and tank just fine.
Paladins can be nigh unhittable and are still sticky because of divine challenge.
Rogues, assuming they can get combat advantage, can put out 20 average damage on at-wills at level 1.
Melee clerics cover healing, damage dealing, buffing, and have good defenses. If they have astral seal, the healing is complete overkill.

Controllers, on the other hand... They generally have subpar damage to everyone else, have bad defenses, and have minor buffs. The "controlling" effect of their at-wills are, in my opinion, pretty minor. They're certainly not flashy, and it doesn't seem to be a glorified role. A lot of their powers don't do anything at all if the target follows the "control" effect (see Storm Pillar for instance), so it feels like a wasted turn even if the control aspect was useful.

I keep trying to build good controllers, but inevitably I decide that I should just be a striker instead; killing something is more effective than controlling it.

Edit: I was tempted to play an Invoker for my most recent character solely because of Hand of Radiance (attack 3 targets at once!). But I also wanted to be a Tiefling, and the stat bonuses didn't really match up. Of the controllers, I do like invokers the best though - and that's because of the damage they can put out, not because of any "controlling" factors!

 

[evilbob]

I think so many classes have "off-controller" abilities it's hard to judge a "true" controller well; it can certainly make them seem less impressive.

Personally, I like controllers that are off-strikers: your damage potential goes sky high when there are tons of monsters, and it can be easy to lock down groups of foes while repeatedly punishing them.