DM Questions for Reavers of Harkenwold veterans

[Nemesis Destiny]

I'm about to start a new campaign set in my homebrew world, and I want to adapt the Reavers of Harkenwold adventure that came in the DM Kit, as I think it works well for what I had in mind for the first few levels.

Obviously, I'm changing the details to fit my setting better, and I'll be expanding on or changing completely several of the NPC / faction backstories to make it less arbitrary. All of that is beside the point.

I would like to know, from others who have run this adventure, what its pitfalls are. The module reads well enough, but that doesn't always tell the whole story.

Where did your group run into problems?

How did you solve them?

Are there points of the adventure that just didn't work or 'flow' well?

The only things I'm doing that differ from the module's expectations (besides some houserules that should not affect the module much), are that the party is probably not yet going to be level 2 when they arrive, but they're also a six-PC group. The other major change is that I'm using Inherent Bonuses.

Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Riastlin]

I have not run it as a DM, but have run through (most) of it as a player. The only major pitfall we ran into was an encounter that included a glimmering spider (I believe). Apparently, it had an at-will attack that rendered it invisible, and then had the ability to teleport. The attack also dealt very little damage when it did hit but could render the targets blind and immobile. The end result was endless rounds where very little happened. It does apparently have a pretty significant attack as a standard action, but that attack does not allow invisibility. Our group pretty much wiped to floor with the rest of the monsters real quick, leaving the spider by itself, thus reducing its desire to show itself. Ultimately the DM just said "Well, eventually you'll kill it."

I would look into making the invisibility power a recharge or something similar just to avoid the massive grind. To put it mildly MM1 wraiths (such as the ones in the White Shrine encounter in Umbraforge) were far preferable even with their insubstantial + weakness combo.

Of course, since I was running through this on the player side, its possible the DM misread the entry, but he did check it a few times.

 

[Locutus Zero]

This was my first adventure as DM. The biggest problem I had was with the Battle of Albridge. By the time the battle was set to start, the players had built it up, expecting a really cool battle and to hopefully finish off the Iron Circle.

I modified two of the encounters, threw one out, and added in a skill challenge to make the fight seem more epic. I drew out a map of where all the friendly forces were set up to show the players and kept them informed as to what was going on in the battle. First they had to go close a flank and save some soldiers that were being taken out by a group of tar devils, assassins, and an adept. Second, they had to defend a hill from an army of minions that had broken through (made a special hill map with special rules for fighting). After that they heard that the main bad guy was on the other side of the main battleground, so they had to do a special skill challenge to make it through the battle swiftly without losing healing surges. Lastly they fought the big bad, pretty much as the encounter is described (only on a different map, that same farm was getting tiring at that point).

It felt cheap to have him just run away, like what was the point of all that? So I had him escape but leave his horse behind. On his horse were maps and other documents that the players found useful (supply schedules, recruitment posters, various ideas for ways to get into the keep).

That was the biggest thing I changed. I played up Dar as a really cool guy, friend of the PCs, and hero of Harken. Then I put him with the PCs in the final confrontation with the teifling, who killed him right in front of the characters.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I have not run it as a DM, but have run through (most) of it as a player. The only major pitfall we ran into was an encounter that included a glimmering spider (I believe). Apparently, it had an at-will attack that rendered it invisible, and then had the ability to teleport. The attack also dealt very little damage when it did hit but could render the targets blind and immobile. The end result was endless rounds where very little happened. It does apparently have a pretty significant attack as a standard action, but that attack does not allow invisibility. Our group pretty much wiped to floor with the rest of the monsters real quick, leaving the spider by itself, thus reducing its desire to show itself. Ultimately the DM just said "Well, eventually you'll kill it."

I would look into making the invisibility power a recharge or something similar just to avoid the massive grind.

I know the encounter you mean. It's the one in Yisarn's Lair. I'm completely redesigning that entire branch of the story to better suit both my world and what's going on in the campaign. Glimmerweb Spider is getting the axe. Good catch though; that looks like it has potential to be a long irritating whiff-fest.

To put it mildly MM1 wraiths (such as the ones in the White Shrine encounter in Umbraforge) were far preferable even with their insubstantial + weakness combo.

Of course, since I was running through this on the player side, its possible the DM misread the entry, but he did check it a few times.

Funny you should mention wraiths... that was one of the things I was going to replace it with. I will be sure to use the newer wraith if I do and avoid any annoying "weakened + insubstantial" shennanigans.

This was my first adventure as DM. The biggest problem I had was with the Battle of Albridge. By the time the battle was set to start, the players had built it up, expecting a really cool battle and to hopefully finish off the Iron Circle.

I modified two of the encounters, threw one out, and added in a skill challenge to make the fight seem more epic. I drew out a map of where all the friendly forces were set up and kept them informed as to what was going on in the battle. First they had to go close a flank and save some soldiers that were being taken out by a special task force, second they had to defend a hill from an army of minions that had broken through (made a special hill map with special rules for fighting). After that they heard that the main bad guy was on the other side of the main battleground, so they had to do a special skill challenge to make it through the battle swiftly without losing healing surges. Lastly they fought the big bad, pretty much as the encounter is described (only on a different map, that same farm was getting tiring at that point).

I like your ideas for modifying the big battle. Especially the big minion fight; I may use that. I may change more things about that fight, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, no pun intended. I know what you mean about the maps getting 'old' fast; there is not enough variety.

It felt cheap to have him just run away, like what was the point of all that? So I had him escape but leave his horse behind. On his horse were maps and other documents that the players found useful (supply schedules, recruitment posters, various ideas for ways to get into the keep).

That was the biggest thing I changed. I also made Dar as big a deal as possible. Then I put him in the final confrontation with the teifling, who killed him right in front of the characters.

I will have to bear those ideas in mind. I plan to have a totally different resolution to the end of the module, and I think my players would find the Dar NPC annoying if played as suggested, so that part may not happen. I am also less concerned about the escape of Big Red; he's playing second fiddle in my version to a mysterious lurking malefactor that has ties to another campaign I ran in the same region of the world that I'm placing Harkenwold in.

That said, thanks for the suggestions and replies; keep 'em coming.

Also, did either of you (or anyone else) find that at times it was hard to figure out what to do next? I find it obvious, but I know what is in the module, so I am concerned that my players might not connect the dots right away. They're veteran gamers (each have 10+ years at the table), for the most part, so I don't think they'll have much trouble figuring out where to go and whatnot, but I'd like to hear if anyone else had problems like that.

 

[Locutus Zero]

Also, did either of you (or anyone else) find that at times it was hard to figure out what to do next? I find it obvious, but I know what is in the module, so I am concerned that my players might not connect the dots right away. They're veteran gamers (each have 10+ years at the table), for the most part, so I don't think they'll have much trouble figuring out where to go and whatnot, but I'd like to hear if anyone else had problems like that.

The lady in the first encounter should point them to Dar or the druid. Each of those NPCs should point to 1 of 2 missions. Once the PCs have done one mission, the mission giver should point them to the other NPC. Once they have done two missions, they should be involved enough in Albridge and working with the resistance.

 

[Riastlin]

We have not had a problem trying to figure out what to do either. There's been plenty of options it seems for us at any given time. As I mentioned earlier, we haven't quite finished, but I'm not anticipating any problems along those lines.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

The lady in the first encounter should point them to Dar or the druid. Each of those NPCs should point to 1 of 2 missions. Once the PCs have done one mission, the mission giver should point them to the other NPC. Once they have done two missions, they should be involved enough in Albridge and working with the resistance.

Yeah, I know how it's supposed to work, I just wasn't sure if the encounters actually do what they're supposed to once things start moving along.

I guess if players are going to be obstinate, there is nothing I can do. Heh. Same as always.

I just liked the feel of this one, since it didn't look very railroady, but still had a few well-defined goals.

Thanks for the input.

 

[OnlineDM]

I've only run my players through one session, but so far so good. Keep in mind that I have a group that eagerly grabs any plot hook that's dangled if it has the promise of letting them beat up bad guys.

They went from the initial farm attack to the druid to Tor's Hold to the bullywugs. They split the party in the final bullywug battle and almost got a PC killed, but pulled it out in the end.

My one suggestion from the bullywug battle is to allow a character who is swallowed by a Giant Frog to make attacks on the frog from the inside, and to allow other characters, when they hit the frog, choose to allow the swallowed character a saving throw to get out instead of dealing damage. Stunned (save ends) is not cool for second-level characters.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I've only run my players through one session, but so far so good. Keep in mind that I have a group that eagerly grabs any plot hook that's dangled if it has the promise of letting them beat up bad guys.

They went from the initial farm attack to the druid to Tor's Hold to the bullywugs. They split the party in the final bullywug battle and almost got a PC killed, but pulled it out in the end.

My one suggestion from the bullywug battle is to allow a character who is swallowed by a Giant Frog to make attacks on the frog from the inside, and to allow other characters, when they hit the frog, choose to allow the swallowed character a saving throw to get out instead of dealing damage. Stunned (save ends) is not cool for second-level characters.

Ouch, yeah, that's a little harsh, even for a group of 6. I haven't decided if I am keeping the giant frogs, but chances are good I'll completely rewrite this encounter. Silly Frog-people? Sorry, haha, no. Kuo-toa are at least creepy, but these guys are ridiculous.

I have something better in mind that works with the background of the area I'm inserting Harkenwold into.

 

[Unwise]

Never count out the giant frogs entirely, they can be really fun monsters. The un-fun bit about them is the stunning. The fact that they swallow people for ongoing damage and can then run away with them is hilarious and completely changes the tactics in a combat.

In my game, the players were winning the fight, then a frog popped out of hiding in the mud, swallowed a caster whole, then ran away up stairs in the tower they were fighting in and tried to hide. The caster had little chance of getting out himself, so other group members had to break away from the fight and chase down the frog quickly before he got digested.

To maximise froggy fun, I suggest the following:
- Have lots of mud around so that the players can be ambushed, or at least keep wondering if they are going to be ambushed.
- Make the frogs run away, preferably over lots of difficult terrain mud once they have grabbed a victim.
- Frogs try to hide and enjoy their meal. It makes for a good scene when the PCs follow the frog around a corner, then can't see it. A perception roll reveals their companions feet sticking out of the edge of a mud pond.
- The person swallowed is restrained, not stunned.
- Make it very very hard to get out of the frog by yourself, thus your friends need to help, but your not bored waiting for them to do so.
- People can make a grab attack to try to pull their companion out, giving them another save.
- Hitting the frog for 16ish damage or more makes them vomit up their meal.
- All of this going on while a bunch of weaker bullywugs are trying to fight the party is a lot of fun.

Sorry for the lengthy post that is only semi-relevant to the topic. Hope it inspires someone to make a fun fight though.