D&D 3E/3.5 3.5: newb needs a little help with Hellfire Warlock build

[Particle_Man]

Well, the Con damage from Hellfire IS considered damage, not a penalty or price of any kind. End of story.
"Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage."
The Soulmeld prevents ability damage. End of story.

The reason it is disputed is the thought that, if the Con damage is prevented, then the hellfire doesn't activate. That is why it is less controversial to go for items and abilities that heal con damage.

p.90:

"Because the diabolical fores behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability".

Presumably, if you find a way not to take Constitution damage (because you have prevented it), then the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire also will not let you use this ability, since you have not given in to their demand for part of your essence in exchange for the granted power. On the other hand, if you take the damage and then heal it, the diabolical forces are fine with that (perhaps because they might arrange a situation in which your moment of con loss proves to be your undoing).

 

[Hexer]

Please dont let this thread become a discussion about this specific work around for the hellfire "cost"! Its off limits for me anyways because: no Magic of Incarnum
Actually I think this question is answered in this specific case (or it will be as soon as I have a talk to my GM about how we could handle things).

Right now I'm more concerned about spending my feats in a good way, especially this for example:

Ran into another question: if I wanted to use empower spelllike ability on my hellfire blast, what level would I have to be?
Or in other words: Eldritch Blast is level 1 if I got it right (always, no matter my char level, right?), but what level is hellfire blast?

DOES eldritch blast always count as a lvl1 invocation?
What invocation level does hellfire blast count as then? I wasnt able to find it in Fiendish Codex II...
It would make for a nice "F... you world! I'll go nova!" blast option even though it would only be 3 times a day and cost me 1 point of CON each time of course
Also is Hellfire Blast to be considered an eldritch essence (like brimstone blast for example)? I'm guessing yes?

 

[Pergentile]

Deleted comment to keep thread ontopic, as requested by the OP.

Hexer, did you not see my suggestion for abyssal heritor feats from Fiendish Codex I?

Also, I believe most feats that apply to SLA's are restricted for monsters, are they not? I might be thinking of intent as restriction...

 

[Hexer]

Deleted comment to keep thread ontopic, as requested by the OP.

Hexer, did you not see my suggestion for abyssal heritor feats from Fiendish Codex I?

Also, I believe most feats that apply to SLA's are restricted for monsters, are they not? I might be thinking of intent as restriction...

Right, gonna check out Abyssal Heritage and, if I like it, talk to my GM about if he'll allow it (cause it seems I'm the only one asking for content of books we werent originally using )

I think it says in Complete Arcane that those SLA feats can be used for stuff like this. It even points to the page with the descriptions in the Monster Manual

 

[Pergentile]

Warlocks can only use Sudden Metamagic feats, because they do not modify the spell slots and can be used spontaneously, this is the one specific exception. Any other form of metamagic feat to alter their Invocations is specifically not allowed.

So no, you cannot Empower your Hellfire stuff. Sorry for not having answered this earlier. XD

 

[Hexer]

hmmmm

In complete arcane it says that Sudden Metamagic Feats don’t require modified spell slots, and therefore work as well with spell-like abilities or invocations as they do with spells (except for verbal components which they dont have and gestures only for invocations). No problems here.
It also says that Creatures with spell-like abilities at a high enough level will find sudden metamagic feats less useful than the dedicated feats Empower Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (referring to the Monster Manual page that describes them), as well as the Maximize Spell-Like Ability feat.
And of course that meta magic feats other than as noted above can not be used.

I took that for Warlocks being able to use empower/quicken/maximize. Am I wrong on this?



Also could you elaborate a little on how you think the abyssal heritor feats would work out best for me?
Flavor-wise I agree that they would indeed work well, but looking at them there are
- some melee-oriented feats that arent of too much use for me since I'm more of a blaster basically
- one for sneak attacks that will be no use at all since I dont have sneak attacks
- one about lore that will only give me half its intended benefit since knowledge (planes) and spellcraft already ARE class skills for me
- a damage-improving one that only applies to weapons while my main "weapon" will be my blasting

doesnt leave all that much to really make use of for my char it seems. Am I missing something?

 

[Hexer]

Me again, with another thought

Thinking about it, I COULD actually make some interesting use off the melee oriented Abyssal Heritor feats, especially combined with the hellfire warlocks Hellfire Shield I guess (whenever someone melee attacks me, they get hit by a hellfire blast basically).
Will doing this be wise though? I mean it would be kind of a caster/blaster/melee fighter combination char then... would that spread things out too much so I'd kinda be able to take whatever role is needed while not actually being good at either of them?

 

[Dandu]

Fiendish Heritage feats will give better benefit if you don't like the Abyssal Heritage ones.

 

[Particle_Man]

Warlocks can only use Sudden Metamagic feats, because they do not modify the spell slots and can be used spontaneously, this is the one specific exception. Any other form of metamagic feat to alter their Invocations is specifically not allowed.

So no, you cannot Empower your Hellfire stuff. Sorry for not having answered this earlier. XD

Actually you can but you don't use the Empower Spell feat, you use the Empower Spell-like Ability feat (I think in the MM). So 3x/day, you can Empower it if your caster level is high enough. Eldritch Blast (unmodified) is a 1st level spellike ability (per the FAQ), but I don't know about Hellfire Blast (I assume it is an essence, but don't know the level of it).

Another option is Sudden Still, btw. It is one of the few ways you can get out of a grapple (Sudden Still Flee the Scene, assuming you have a good Concentration skill). Or just have a ring of Freedom of Action (expensive but worth it if you can get it).

 

[Pergentile]

@ Particle Man, Yes yes, they are SLA's not spells, and so use different feats. Anything that isn't sudden though is not permitted. It is specifically stated that metamagic feats (even ones for SLA's) can't improve a warlock's eldritch blast, the only exception being the sudden metamagic feats. On top of that, the feat you are referring to has the restriction "The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to half its caster level (round down) –2." right in the description. Edritch blast and Hellfire Blast are not SLA's that duplicate spells (even though Eldritch Blast has a spell level).

@ Fiendish Heritage feats, Fiendish Heritage and Fiendish Legacy (Req 9th level, non-good), to get you Teleport, Summon Monster 5 and Unholy Blight is pretty good, but I would only get the two, the others aren't that impressive IMO.

I think the DR, Natural AC bonus, Darkvision+Search and Spot check bonus', and floating +1 insight bonus' from Abyssal Heritor feats are a better investment. The Abyssal Heritor feats also don't require you to be level 9... Just my opinion though. ^^

Edit: I BLOODY HATE THE AUTO SCRIPTING!!