D&D General [+] Warlock Build Chat

[doctorbadwolf]

Fantasy High DnD Game Character, Morrigan Blackthorne, would appreciate advice.

My wife and I are organizing a new campaign that will probably only run for a few levels, from 2 or 3 to maybe 6. Hopefully our friend will be running it, otherwise I will somewhat reluctantly take up that job.

The inspiration is dimension20: Fantasy High, but with no responsibility to any canon from the show.

I'm playing a creepy goth girl who used to be a cultist of a terrible eldritch being of darkness called The Night Yorb, but is now seeking the goddess Cassandra who is a deity of doubt, the unknown, the night, and essentially standing together in the night rather than cowering alone. She is also a patron of witches. So my goth is a Hexblade Warlock, using the current rules, Pact of The Blade, with a greatsword called Nocturne. She has Armor of Shadows and Beguiling Influence, as she has a secondary focus of being a sort of banshee inspired witch that may start a band with my wife's emo tragedy bard. I gave her the Initiate of High Sorcery feat for the black moon, and took Mind Sliver, False Life, and Hex, then took Armor of Agythis, Mirror Image, Pass Without Trace, and a homebrew spell called Vampiric Strike that I forgot is homebrew. SHe's a Mark of Shadow Elf, so she also has Minor Illusion and Invisibility.

Currently she has Toll The Dead and Green-Flame Blade as Warlock cantrips, but with Mind Sliver I'm tempted to ditch Toll for message.

Anyway!

I'm wondering about Armor of Agythis. In the past I have ruled and argued online that gaining THP while it's active counts as still having THP for the spell, and so if you gain THP every round from something you might keep it up the whole fight, if no one attack takes all of it out (which is unlikely). I can't count on another DM to see it that way, so I wonder if maybe Absorb Elements would be a strong contender for a spot amongst the above spells, perhaps instead of False Life. Also wondering about other ways to mitigate damage as it comes in without relying on THP, so that AoA stays up a bit longer. Also, perhaps booming blade is a better pair with AoA, since it means they will take damage if they stay and hit me or if they get away from me.

I'm also wondering about spells other than dissonant whispers that I could pick up that would feel good as banshee song.

Also what would you make in a Fantasy High game at level 3 using any and all official published material?


And how do you think you'd advise me to build the above character if the last playtest warlock ends up being pretty much how the class looks in the new phb and we end up having those rules available as well?

 

[mellored]

RAW, Armor of agythis ends when you replace the THP. As such, I don't see much point in having both false life and armor of agythis.

I would ask the DM to allow Thunderwave as a banshee shout. It's not on the warlock list, but hardly going to break anything.

Shatter is also Thunder damage, available at level 3

Medium Armor and shields will be available for any class as a level 1 feat (assuming no changes).

 

[Dausuul]

Per the PHB: "If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones." So, to gain temp hp from false life, you have to give up the ones from armor of Agathys. And since armor of Agathys triggers if "a creature hits you... while you have these hit points," i.e., the ones you gained from casting armor of Agathys, it seems pretty clear that you lose the retaliation effect if you swap them out for temp hit points from another source.

Anyway: When playing a wizard at mid- to high level, I don't leave home without absorb elements. Every now and then you get hit by a freight train of elemental damage (enemy caster throwing fireball, dragon's breath, etc.) and absorb elements can save you a world of pain. The question is, is it really worthwhile for a warlock? How often are you going to want to burn one of your two spell slots on it? And with a campaign at tier 1 to very low tier 2, you won't face a lot of of those elemental freight trains, which tend to show up in tier 2 and later. If you have an opening in your spell lineup and you don't know what to do with it, sure, take absorb elements, but I wouldn't let it displace another spell I wanted as a low-level warlock.

For damage mitigation to extend the lifespan of AoA: The ideal at this low level would be Heavy Armor Master, although that requires you to pick up heavy armor proficiency somehow. Spells that could help include blade ward and ray of enfeeblement, but I'm not sure there's any way to make those spells worth the action cost to cast them.

For banshee song, spell picks I could see include cause fear and its big brother fear, enthrall, or (as @mellored suggested) shatter.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

RAW, Armor of agythis ends when you replace the THP. As such, I don't see much point in having both false life and armor of agythis.

Like I said, I disagree, but I’m not going to rely on my DM agreeing so it really doesn’t matter.

If I had more known spells I’d be fine having both, because False Life gives more THP but lacks the damage, but since warlocks are so limited…

I would ask the DM to allow Thunderwave as a banshee shout. It's not on the warlock list, but hardly going to break anything.

I think I can get that via a different feat, like maybe the witherbloom student feat? But yeah I may do that.

Shatter is also Thunder damage, available at level 3

I do love that spell.

Medium Armor and shields will be available for any class as a level 1 feat (assuming no changes).

I don’t recall, is that feat just medium armor and shields? Because that is very much not worth a feat IMO.

But armor of shadows is 13+dex AC at-will, either way. Still…in the current build I have it from hex warrior, and I could go heavy armor, but goodness that does not fit the aesthetics.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Per the PHB: "If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones." So, to gain temp hp from false life, you have to give up the ones from armor of Agathys. And since armor of Agathys triggers if "a creature hits you... while you have these hit points," i.e., the ones you gained from casting armor of Agathys, it seems pretty clear that you lose the retaliation effect if you swap them out for temp hit points from another source.

We really need to try to start an argument about soemthing I already said I have made my ruling on when I run the game, but am not relying on in someone else’s game?

Anyway: When playing a wizard at mid- to high level, I don't leave home without absorb elements. Every now and then you get hit by a freight train of elemental damage (enemy caster throwing fireball, dragon's breath, etc.) and absorb elements can save you a world of pain. The question is, is it really worthwhile for a warlock? How often are you going to want to burn one of your two spell slots on it? And with a campaign at tier 1 to very low tier 2, you won't face a lot of of those elemental freight trains, which tend to show up in tier 2 and later. If you have an opening in your spell lineup and you don't know what to do with it, sure, take absorb elements, but I wouldn't let it displace another spell I wanted as a low-level warlock.

4-6 is a level range where I’ve seen caster get one-shotted by single damage rolls from breath weapons and the like.

And a melee warlock gets more out of it than most casters, especially with extra utility and non-scaling spells from feats and species.

For damage mitigation to extend the lifespan of AoA: The ideal at this low level would be Heavy Armor Master, although that requires you to pick up heavy armor proficiency somehow. Spells that could help include blade ward and ray of enfeeblement, but I'm not sure there's any way to make those spells worth the action cost to cast them.

For banshee song, spell picks I could see include cause fear and its big brother fear, enthrall, or (as @mellored suggested) shatter.

I do have access to wrathful smite as well, might throw that into the mix. I definitely want at least one spell to be a weapon attack spell…but yeah I thought hard about going Fey instead so that my class features were giving me fear and charm stuff, having fear would be nice.

 

[mellored]

I don’t recall, is that feat just medium armor and shields? Because that is very much not worth a feat IMO.

First level feats are weaker than normal feats. All the fighting style are level 1 feats for instance.

But yes, it's just light, medium, and shield.

But armor of shadows is 13+dex AC at-will, either way. Still…in the current build I have it from hex warrior, and I could go heavy armor, but goodness that does not fit the aesthetics. View attachment 347788View attachment 347789View attachment 347790

Yea, I would stick with armor of shadows for that.

IMO, using the playtest

Changling, 16 Cha, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Wis, 8 Str, 8 Int.
1st level feat: fighting style, Dualist.

Invocations
Pact of the Blade
Armor of Shadows
Fiendish Vigor

Pact of the Fiend for THP.
Ask the DM to swap the fire spells for thunder spells
burning hands -> thunder wave
Scorching Ray-> shatter
Fireball -> thunder step

Several sources of THP should keep you alive fairly well.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

First level feats are weaker than normal feats. All the fighting style are level 1 feats for instance.

But yes, it's just light, medium, and shield.

It’s weak for a 1st level feat. Like bottom 5th of the level 1 feats.

Yea, I would stick with armor of shadows for that.

Yeah barring magic studded leather I can’t see going another way.

IMO, using the playtest

Changling, 16 Cha, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Wis, 8 Str, 8 Int.
1st level feat: fighting style, Dualist.

Invocations
Pact of the Blade
Armor of Shadows
Fiendish Vigor

Pact of the Fiend for THP.
Ask the DM to swap the fire spells for thunder spells
burning hands -> thunder wave
Scorching Ray-> shatter
Fireball -> thunder step

Several sources of THP should keep you alive fairly well.

Definitely a solid build. Not right for my 4’10” witchy goth banshee with a big sword, but certainly cool and effective.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Per the PHB: "If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones." So, to gain temp hp from false life, you have to give up the ones from armor of Agathys. And since armor of Agathys triggers if "a creature hits you... while you have these hit points," i.e., the ones you gained from casting armor of Agathys, it seems pretty clear that you lose the retaliation effect if you swap them out for temp hit points from another source.

Anyway: When playing a wizard at mid- to high level, I don't leave home without absorb elements. Every now and then you get hit by a freight train of elemental damage (enemy caster throwing fireball, dragon's breath, etc.) and absorb elements can save you a world of pain. The question is, is it really worthwhile for a warlock? How often are you going to want to burn one of your two spell slots on it? And with a campaign at tier 1 to very low tier 2, you won't face a lot of of those elemental freight trains, which tend to show up in tier 2 and later. If you have an opening in your spell lineup and you don't know what to do with it, sure, take absorb elements, but I wouldn't let it displace another spell I wanted as a low-level warlock.

For damage mitigation to extend the lifespan of AoA: The ideal at this low level would be Heavy Armor Master, although that requires you to pick up heavy armor proficiency somehow. Spells that could help include blade ward and ray of enfeeblement, but I'm not sure there's any way to make those spells worth the action cost to cast them.

For banshee song, spell picks I could see include cause fear and its big brother fear, enthrall, or (as @mellored suggested) shatter.

Sorry for the annoyed response to the first part.

I think that being in melee armor of Agythis against higher number of enemies, mirror image against fewer more dangerous enemies, and decent AC, will have to suffice. That and hexblade’s curse focused on weak enemies when possible to get a little healing.

With good enough rolled stats in a 2024 phb build, it might be worth it to MC monk eventually for Shadow monk and deflect attacks, though that would IIRC require using a monk weapon rather than a greatsword, and even going one-handed I couldn’t use a shield. Depends on how the details of the two classes look. I’ve run a monk with a custom item that let her spend ki to cast a few spells, including armor of Agythis, and it was really good.

But more likely if I used the revised warlock it’d be blade pact fey warlock with a shield (I’ll find a way to make it look good) and rapier.

 

[mellored]

Definitely a solid build. Not right for my 4’10” witchy goth banshee with a big sword, but certainly cool and effective.

Playtest warlock can use a 2-hander as well. But it still has the problem of needing Dex and Cha in melee.

Too bad the 4e Avenger class didn't make the jump. That would fit perfectly.

I’ve run a monk with a custom item that let her spend ki to cast a few spells, including armor of Agythis, and it was really good.

The playtest monk doesn't need any defensive help. Just avoid getting surrounded, which is easy enough.

But spending ki to cast shadowblade would work. It counts as a simple weapon.
And on theme for a shadow monk.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Playtest warlock can use a 2-hander as well. But it still has the problem of needing Dex and Cha in melee.

Sure but I was gonna need Dex and Cha anyway.

Too bad the 4e Avenger class didn't make the jump. That would fit perfectly.

Yeah closest we have is Hexblade/Paladin, and that doesn't get you movement or being impossible to get away from or any of that.

The playtest monk doesn't need any defensive help. Just avoid getting surrounded, which is easy enough.

You still only have one reaction, to be fair, and it still costs discipline to dodge as a bonus action.

But spending ki to cast shadowblade would work. It counts as a simple weapon.
And on theme for a shadow monk.

Shadowblade is really solid, in general, as well.