Pathfinder 1E Are druids overpowered in Pathfinder?

[heymitch]

Actually, there is a way to dramatically increase AC without being able to afford armor with the Wild enchantment. It requires sacrificing a level of spellcasting to take a one level dip in Monk. You need to be LN, but my Druid 5 / Monk 1 has an AC of 25 while wild shaped into a Deinonychus, and his Touch AC is 20 (game is at a 25 point buy).

However, his physical stats are all 14's, so he isn't as good at melee as someone who focuses on wild shape at the expense of spell casting. In our game, specific magic items are often hard to come buy, so he has Craft Wondrous Item to make his own (this covers almost everything he's going to need).

So, a decent AC in wild shape is possible, but you need to make a few sacrifices to get there.

 

[heymitch]

Armor with the Wild enchantment would add to your AC while wild shaped, however, a Mage Armor spell will not. Neither will Bracers of Armor. You don't get to count Armor bonuses to AC in wild shape unless it comes from armor with the Wild enchantment. The spell and the item add an Armor bonus, which would simply be ignored in wild shape. It'll raise your AC when you're in your natural form, but that's it.

Petronius: your Barkskin spell at level 10 should add +4 to Natural Armor, not +3. Your AC without the Mage Armor is 27 at 10th level. If you don't have a Belt of Dexterity at that level, shouldn't you be casting Cat's Grace every encounter? That would bring it to 29. Also, a Shield of Faith spell cast by your Cleric (using that same Pearl of Power I) would net you that extra +1 to AC to put you back at AC 30. Maybe not worth the spell, but I wanted to replace what you'd lose from Mage Armor.

 

[heymitch]

One other point about Bracers of Armor: any special abilities applied to the Bracers, such as Fortification or Invulnerability, will apply to your Druid while wild shaped. Bracers of Armor +1 with Light Fortification would grant you Light Fortification in wild shape, but no AC increase, and would cost 4000gp, for example.

 

[heymitch]

Not to get the thread off topic but if you retain your armor bonus from wild armor/shield, wouldn't that be considered "wearing" armor? I ask b/c the monk bonus to AC specifically states that it only applies when wearing no armor.

+1. If you go the Monk route, you can't benefit from the Wild armor, as you'd lose your Wisdom to AC from Monk. However, you just saved some cash that you can apply elsewhere.

 

[heymitch]

Realize it has been a while, but I've been playing a druid and wrestling with these same problems.

I actually have a plan to flip from melee to spell caster/controller at level 11 - but to get there I take a level of monk for the AC bonus from wisdom

At level 10, and for only 18,000 gp I can get a 30 AC wildshaped as huge megaraptor

• 0 gp Size -2
• 0 gp Dex 12 +1
• 0 gp Natural Armor (WS) +6
• 0 gp Barkskin +3
• 1000 gp Pearl of Power I (Mage Armor, cast by party wiz) +4
• 4000 gp +2 Headband of Wisdom (WIS 21) +5
• 8000 gp +2 Ring of Protection +2
• 5000 gp Dusty Rose Ioun Stone +1

10-2+1+6+3+4+5+2+1 = 30


At level 13, and for 69,000 gp I can get a 40 AC (22 Touch) as a huge air elemental

• 0 gp Size -2
• 0 gp Dex 20 +5
• 0 gp Natural Armor (WS) +4
• 0 gp Barkskin +5
• 4000 gp Headband of Wisdom (WIS 23) +6
• 4000 gp +2 Belt of Dexterity +1
• 5000 gp Dusty Rose Ioun Stone +1
• 8000 gp +2 Ring of Protection +2
• 8000 gp Ring of Shielding +2
• 36,000 gp Bracers of Armor +6

10-2+5+4+5+6+1+1+2+2+6 = 40 AC


While I may only get 2 slam attacks as an elemental, I can start moving into a battlefield controller without worrying too much about getting whacked or trapped by my own spells. Also worth noting - according to PFd20SRD, wealth at level 13 should be approx 140k, so this spends less than half of that! Important since the DM appears to be quite stingy on party gold.

Am I missing something? I realize the monk level carries the cost of 20th level capstone power - but c'mon, that is at the very end of a long campaign and may NEVER be reached ;0 Those monk saves and AC bonus are going to be very worthwhile, and having 6 AoO with combat reflexes from Monk bonus feat could prove pretty useful.

Sorry, just noticed the Ring of Shielding +2 in your level 13 build. If that's a Ring of Force Shield, then it wouldn't work, as it provides a Shield bonus to AC. The latest errata of the Core Rulebook made the following change:

Page 212:In the Polymorph section, in the fifth
paragraph, in the second sentence, change "armor
bonuses" to "armor and shield bonuses"

So, Shield bonuses to AC do not apply (unless they come from a shield with the Wild Enhancement on it).

 

[Petronius_Ironfist]

Yes, armor is armor is armor. After much culling from the boards it appears the only "armor" I can don and keep my AC bonus from wisdom are those bracers of armor.

Cost of my route:
+6 bracers of armor cost 36kgp. Wisdom of 23 costs 4kgp, and no cap on DEX, +2 shield ring (8000 kgp)
1 8th level spell, 1 9th level spell, 1 BAB, WS at will (all at 20th level)
Total from just this: 48kgp, 27AC and touch AC of 19

Compared to full wild plate, wild shield
1 feat, +10 Armor bonus (+2 wild armor, 25kgp), +1 DEX (capped), +3 shield (+1 wild shield, 16kgp), dusty rose ioun (+1, 5kgp), +1 ring of protection (2kgp)
Total 47kgp, 24AC, touch AC 11

So all other things being equal, the monk route gets me better AC than the full plate/shield route

 

[concerro]

Yes, armor is armor is armor. After much culling from the boards it appears the only "armor" I can don and keep my AC bonus from wisdom are those bracers of armor.

Cost of my route:
+6 bracers of armor cost 36kgp. Wisdom of 23 costs 4kgp, and no cap on DEX, +2 shield ring (8000 kgp)
1 8th level spell, 1 9th level spell, 1 BAB, WS at will (all at 20th level)
Total from just this: 48kgp, 27AC and touch AC of 19

Compared to full wild plate, wild shield
1 feat, +10 Armor bonus (+2 wild armor, 25kgp), +1 DEX (capped), +3 shield (+1 wild shield, 16kgp), dusty rose ioun (+1, 5kgp), +1 ring of protection (2kgp)
Total 47kgp, 24AC, touch AC 11

So all other things being equal, the monk route gets me better AC than the full plate/shield route

If you drop the ioun stone for an amulet of natural armor you keep the same AC, but you save 3000 for using the armor, and you also don't have to give up a caster level for the monk.

 

[Petronius_Ironfist]

Sorry, just noticed the Ring of Shielding +2 in your level 13 build. If that's a Ring of Force Shield, then it wouldn't work, as it provides a Shield bonus to AC. The latest errata of the Core Rulebook made the following change:

Page 212:In the Polymorph section, in the fifth
paragraph, in the second sentence, change "armor
bonuses" to "armor and shield bonuses"

So, Shield bonuses to AC do not apply (unless they come from a shield with the Wild Enhancement on it).

Thanks for the catch!!!

 

[Petronius_Ironfist]

If you drop the ioun stone for an amulet of natural armor you keep the same AC, but you save 3000 for using the armor, and you also don't have to give up a caster level for the monk.

Ah but that would mean giving up my amulet of mighty fists. Druids gotta have a little love if they want to hit anything they aim at.

Also, does an AoNA stack with Barkskin? I didn't think they did - and at 13th I'll have a +5 to AC from that.

Still, a point to ponder. I'm only 1 level away from making the "big decision" to sacrifice that caster level...

 

[concerro]

Ah but that would mean giving up my amulet of mighty fists. Druids gotta have a little love if they want to hit anything they aim at.

Also, does an AoNA stack with Barkskin? I didn't think they did - and at 13th I'll have a +5 to AC from that.

Still, a point to ponder. I'm only 1 level away from making the "big decision" to sacrifice that caster level...

True. I was thinking that magic fang, greater could affect all the natural attacks the same way the amulet does, but I was incorrect.
I guess it boils down to how much spellcasting your character does. The monk level may be the better choice then.

The AoNA does not stack with barkskin.