I love Monster PCs. I find humans are way over used and the core races are just too common, so when I GM I usually don't allow the core races. I also make a lot of custom races. The only problem I find is I regularly find out after I start a campaign that I didn't quite balance them correctly. (Which I usually compensate with by giving the other characters some nice magic items and the consider the party's average party level to be 1 or 2 higher than it is.)
Monster PCs
Oryan77
Adventurer
Do most people who use Monster PCs just simply make the PC and stick him in the group as if he's any other core race? Or do you actually roleplay the part and deal with the consequences of entering towns as a feared monster and trying to get acceptance from party members?
I've never liked the idea of Monster PCs because I never believed a player (or some DMs) would play it correctly. They'd just run it like any of their other PCs. My experience with players always made me believe they would just want to play the race for the cool stats & abilities rather than to roleplay an adventuring monster. Then there would be no reason to have that race in the group during the actual game (might as well have been a non monster race).
If the player & DM used it right, it would be pretty interesting. But if they ignored the fact that it's a monster, it seems pointless.
I've never liked the idea of Monster PCs because I never believed a player (or some DMs) would play it correctly. They'd just run it like any of their other PCs. My experience with players always made me believe they would just want to play the race for the cool stats & abilities rather than to roleplay an adventuring monster. Then there would be no reason to have that race in the group during the actual game (might as well have been a non monster race).
If the player & DM used it right, it would be pretty interesting. But if they ignored the fact that it's a monster, it seems pointless.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Well, every PC should consider the consequences of those abilities, but is there really a fundamental difference between a "monster" and other PCs? How different is a troll from a half-orc barbarian, or a blackguard from a demon, or a spymaster from a doppelganger? All PCs are pretty much by definition "abnormal"; their fantastical abilities set them apart from the average commoner. Some monsters may experience strong social reactions, but so can many human PCs with certain proclivities. In both cases, it should be played out.
I had a monster PC without a soul who would have had to make a very difficult choice in a campaign about souls, but the character unfortunately died. I've also had other monster PCs that basically just played normally. Depends on the monster.
Thunderfoot
Hero
I think I'm going to go the esoteric route on this and ask, "What IS a monster?" In 1st ed AD&D and OD&D all the player races were also listed in the monster listings. Drow were strictly monsters until Drizzt came along, then everyone wanted to play one and now drow are considered "standard" in most campaigns.
Technically Dragons are monsters and there is no way I would ever let anyone play a dragon as a PC. But goblins, orcs, even ogres have all been PCs in campaigns I've ran over the years. I would caution their use willy nilly and before you do so, I would ask these questions of yourself as DM:
How is the race viewed on the whole by society? If goblins are evil greedy baby eaters, then even the PC is going to be viewed that way until they can prove otherwise. If goblins are respected members of society, then no biggie.
Why would the monster race in question suddenly decide to go adventuring? If they are members of society, it makes sense, adventurer is just another job description, if they aren't is the PC an outcast ala Drizzt or are they orphaned and raised by "normal" folks. If this is the case their home town would be more accepting (but only slightly so) of the character than other towns.
What is their primary disability. Not stats, "real" world. Taking the example of the baby-eating goblin, if the PC walks into town, how soon until the PC is hung by the neck until dead or just outright killed in the street by a mob for the "good of the community". If the race is accepted, there is no real disability in "normal" society. If they are just viewed with suspicion this could be a disability as equipment could cost more, services are refused and lodging is suddenly "full to capacity". I hate to say it but the race laws of the 60s are probably a really good source of material as to what could await the poor monster PC.
Players love new challenges and abilities to play with, I get it. But make sure that you are prepared to deal with the real possibility of pissing them off if you play "against" them correctly in a non-appreciative society. I would highly recommend using a brand new world where PC monster races are accepted as normal by society at large if you plan to do this, or else make sure you have extra friends to take the place of the ones you are probably going to offend in the near future. (assuming they aren't thick skinned or looking forward to the sociological/psychological challenges ahead of them.)
Technically Dragons are monsters and there is no way I would ever let anyone play a dragon as a PC. But goblins, orcs, even ogres have all been PCs in campaigns I've ran over the years. I would caution their use willy nilly and before you do so, I would ask these questions of yourself as DM:
How is the race viewed on the whole by society? If goblins are evil greedy baby eaters, then even the PC is going to be viewed that way until they can prove otherwise. If goblins are respected members of society, then no biggie.
Why would the monster race in question suddenly decide to go adventuring? If they are members of society, it makes sense, adventurer is just another job description, if they aren't is the PC an outcast ala Drizzt or are they orphaned and raised by "normal" folks. If this is the case their home town would be more accepting (but only slightly so) of the character than other towns.
What is their primary disability. Not stats, "real" world. Taking the example of the baby-eating goblin, if the PC walks into town, how soon until the PC is hung by the neck until dead or just outright killed in the street by a mob for the "good of the community". If the race is accepted, there is no real disability in "normal" society. If they are just viewed with suspicion this could be a disability as equipment could cost more, services are refused and lodging is suddenly "full to capacity". I hate to say it but the race laws of the 60s are probably a really good source of material as to what could await the poor monster PC.
Players love new challenges and abilities to play with, I get it. But make sure that you are prepared to deal with the real possibility of pissing them off if you play "against" them correctly in a non-appreciative society. I would highly recommend using a brand new world where PC monster races are accepted as normal by society at large if you plan to do this, or else make sure you have extra friends to take the place of the ones you are probably going to offend in the near future. (assuming they aren't thick skinned or looking forward to the sociological/psychological challenges ahead of them.)
Oryan77
Adventurer
It all has to do with the type of campaign that you run. It also has to do with the playstyle of the players and DM.
If the group doesn't really roleplay much and they are content to just hack-n-slash, then a monster PC is not going to make any bit of difference other than the fact of making sure he is properly balanced with the level of other PCs.
If the group is playing a more "fantastical" setting, then a monster PC probably isn't going to be looked at twice from the NPCs.
But if the group is playing a more traditional fantasy game, where Trolls are feared and pretty much killed on sight (or you run away on sight), then it would be pretty lame to have a Troll in the adventuring party. My first thought would be, "Who the hell are the guys traveling with a freaking Troll?" And if some how a group of guys would travel with a Troll, that doesn't mean NPCs are going to be ok with it and never react.
I mean hell, dress a white guy up in a cowboy hat and boots, push him into a hip-hop club, and tell me people in the club are not going to be reacting to him. And in the case of the Troll, he's not even the same species, doesn't have to wear a cowboy hat, and his kin are known to rip people to shreds and eat them. If he doesn't get a reaction from every single town he enters, then those are some pretty darn tolerant NPCs!
It appears (and this is only my assumption, I could be totally wrong but seeing as how 4e has Tieflings and Dragonborn as core races, I think I'm right) that even Half-Orcs these days are thought of no differently than a Human or Elf. It has always been my understanding that even a Half-Orc was supposed to be treated almost like a monster race. In a traditional setting, it's not like Orcs are freely kicking it with humans in a village tavern (they are usually burning the tavern down). So when a Half-Orc shows up, people are going to be pretty dang weary of the guy. They may be a bit more tolerant towards him since he is half-human, but I don't think anyone I have played with in the past 10 years has ever treated Half-Orcs as the freaks of nature that they are.
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TheUltramark
First Post
in 3.25 it was common practice to use monster pc's, both as a dm, and even the players. One of our beloved characters was a "rhinotaur" - an anthrimorphic rhinoceros. He made an awesome barbarian!
one reoccurring villain was a evil wizard with his two henchmen an ogre and a quickling, both of which went up in level along with us, until being ultimately dispatched at some point.
never "rank and file" monsters though, that seems like to much work
one reoccurring villain was a evil wizard with his two henchmen an ogre and a quickling, both of which went up in level along with us, until being ultimately dispatched at some point.
never "rank and file" monsters though, that seems like to much work
Ahnehnois
First Post
I'll agree that what constitutes a "monster" vs a PC race is highly setting-dependent. I'm not sure I would equate a "traditional" setting with a low-fantasy setting with one that mainly has human(/elven/dwarven) PCs; I'd say there's some overlap between those concepts but they are separate issues.
In some settings, a human sorcerer will be treated as a monster but a half-ogre won't. In others, the reverse is true. Or both. Or neither. I've played it both ways.
In a "traditional" setting, I would think that any mid-level non-good spellcaster would be treated with fear and distrust similar to what a monster would receive, as might any evil PC or any exceptionally powerful PC. 1st-level commoners scare easy.
The important thing is that if you play a monster character (however you define that), you ask the question of how it would work within your campaign, and come up with a good answer. In my experiences, good players can handle this perfectly well.
In some settings, a human sorcerer will be treated as a monster but a half-ogre won't. In others, the reverse is true. Or both. Or neither. I've played it both ways.
In a "traditional" setting, I would think that any mid-level non-good spellcaster would be treated with fear and distrust similar to what a monster would receive, as might any evil PC or any exceptionally powerful PC. 1st-level commoners scare easy.
The important thing is that if you play a monster character (however you define that), you ask the question of how it would work within your campaign, and come up with a good answer. In my experiences, good players can handle this perfectly well.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Two of the three PCs in the Savage Worlds game I'm currently running could pretty well be described as monsters. What surprised me (though it probably shouldn't have) was how easy it was to generate the characters as "monsters" simply by describing some of their abilities differently than if they were more typical PCs. This has required virtually nothing in the way of rebalancing thanks to the flexibility of the system.
Anyway one of them is a Werewolf but who has pretty much total control over his powers and when he "wolfs out". Another had a dark ritual performed on him and now has a gate in his stomach from which tentacles of a dead Kraken-god emerge and do stuff. Amusingly the the third PC is sort of a "monster hunter" type of character. But he's done a pretty good job of playing up the fact that he doesn't fully trust the other two characters and adventures with them partially to "keep an eye on them".
As a result of these character choices it is difficult for them to operate openly in society and use of their monster powers is the sort of thing that gets the Witch Hunters after you pretty hard. Once in a while one of them will sort of sigh and say, "Why are we always persecuted and crapped on when we're trying to save the world?" But before I can even open my mouth to reply, one of the other players will say, "We're monsters!"
It's been a really fun and interesting campaign!
Anyway one of them is a Werewolf but who has pretty much total control over his powers and when he "wolfs out". Another had a dark ritual performed on him and now has a gate in his stomach from which tentacles of a dead Kraken-god emerge and do stuff. Amusingly the the third PC is sort of a "monster hunter" type of character. But he's done a pretty good job of playing up the fact that he doesn't fully trust the other two characters and adventures with them partially to "keep an eye on them".
As a result of these character choices it is difficult for them to operate openly in society and use of their monster powers is the sort of thing that gets the Witch Hunters after you pretty hard. Once in a while one of them will sort of sigh and say, "Why are we always persecuted and crapped on when we're trying to save the world?" But before I can even open my mouth to reply, one of the other players will say, "We're monsters!"
It's been a really fun and interesting campaign!
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I kept wanting to be a thri-kreen PC in 3.x, but I needed to be in a fairly high-level campaign to do so. In better-suited campaigns (eg one that went from 1st to 13th level) thri-kreen did not fit the setting 
It only happened once, and I made the mistake of telling the other players, and they all decided to be monsters. As a thri-kreen, my PC barely understood the concept of money, the warforged PC was likewise (there's no Eberron fluff to support this, btw) and the wereape was the face of the party. There were only three of us (second mistake; only use a weird character once all roles are filled), we were trying to playtest Book of Nine Swords (third mistake; use normal classes for monsters; that's one I avoided by just playing a ranger, but that meant I wasn't stress-testing the system; oh, and the wereape had to give up 5 class levels so had only one level to play with, making stress-testing impossible) and maybe a few more.
And then the wereape, who was playing some class with a Healing Strike-like ability, refused to use it. It wasn't costing him actions, so what gave? In our first encounter, we slaughtered the opposition. In the second, it slaughtered me in the first round, dropping me to six hit points, and the wereape refused to use healing.
Too bad. I've practically memorized Thri-kreen of Athas too. In my 4e campaign we have a thri-kreen, but they lost so many abilities (like the venomous bite, or even at-will claw attacks) that they've lost a ton of flavor. 4e is probably too mechanically tight to do a thri-kreen PC justice, but I can still make kick-ass thri-kreen NPCs. (I haven't used these guys yet, though.)
In 4e I once allowed a PC to be a bugbear. Oversized weapons is overpowered. My advice is to say no.
It only happened once, and I made the mistake of telling the other players, and they all decided to be monsters. As a thri-kreen, my PC barely understood the concept of money, the warforged PC was likewise (there's no Eberron fluff to support this, btw) and the wereape was the face of the party. There were only three of us (second mistake; only use a weird character once all roles are filled), we were trying to playtest Book of Nine Swords (third mistake; use normal classes for monsters; that's one I avoided by just playing a ranger, but that meant I wasn't stress-testing the system; oh, and the wereape had to give up 5 class levels so had only one level to play with, making stress-testing impossible) and maybe a few more.
And then the wereape, who was playing some class with a Healing Strike-like ability, refused to use it. It wasn't costing him actions, so what gave? In our first encounter, we slaughtered the opposition. In the second, it slaughtered me in the first round, dropping me to six hit points, and the wereape refused to use healing.
Too bad. I've practically memorized Thri-kreen of Athas too. In my 4e campaign we have a thri-kreen, but they lost so many abilities (like the venomous bite, or even at-will claw attacks) that they've lost a ton of flavor. 4e is probably too mechanically tight to do a thri-kreen PC justice, but I can still make kick-ass thri-kreen NPCs. (I haven't used these guys yet, though.)
In 4e I once allowed a PC to be a bugbear. Oversized weapons is overpowered. My advice is to say no.
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And strangely if the group is rping a lot monster PCs also shouldn't be a problem.
Because if you think about it, when you really roleplay an elf or dwarf they would be as different, "monsterous", as a goblin or kobold and not just short humans or humans with pointy ears.
The only reason elves are PC races and goblins are monsters is the book they appear in.
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