Flat-Footed

irdeggman

First Post
A free action that you can take when it isn't your turn is now called an Immediate Action, a phrase that wasn't used when the PHB was first published.

And since you can't take an Immediate Action when you're flat footed, the idea of taking the "speak" action to break your own flat-footed status falls apart.

In short, I'm casting Dispel BS on it.

Actually it is not - they are different.

Some free actions that you could take even if it wasn't your turn (like casting feather fall) have been reclassifed as immediate actions, but not all - speaking is still a free action.

An immediate action is a "swift" action that you can take even if it is not your turn.

Speaking is a free action and does not count as using your swift action for the next round.

As I said Arrowhawk has a good point with this example, I can still disagree with his conclusions but this one example (speaking) is at least questionable per the RAW.
 

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Arrowhawk

First Post
Actually it is not - they are different.
So the Dispel BS cancels itself out?

Some free actions that you could take even if it wasn't your turn (like casting feather fall) have been reclassifed as immediate actions, but not all - speaking is still a free action.
.
Riddle me this...

If casting Feather Fall is now an Immediate Action...which you can't take FF'd. What happens when you are FF'd and someone knocks you off a 100' cliff?

And FYI, you realize of course I'm simply claiming that the Speak action presents a loophole with regards to being FF, so the "chance to act" really shouldn't be the dispositive indicator. I would not agree that the Speak loophole should be used to avoid being FF'd...even if Skip came to my house to tell me it should.

EDIT:
And yeah, kittyitch, my BS DC is like a Google Plex give or take a zero, so don't even try.
 
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kitcik

Adventurer
If casting Feather Fall is now an Immediate Action...which you can't take FF'd. What happens when you are FF'd and someone knocks you off a 100' cliff?

By RAW? You drop like a stone. One could argue your initiative would come up sometime during the fall, but I think under RAW if you fall during a turn (be it yours or someone else's), then you fall during that turn - as if no time takes place - except to the extent the fall is > 150' (which then rolls into the next round). Or something like that.

That is messed up. Bad RAW! Sit! Stay!


EDIT: And yeah, kittyitch, my BS DC is like a Google Plex give or take a zero, so don't even try.

Why do you think your Bluff / Intimidate check is so high when your Charisma is so low?
 


kitcik

Adventurer
Well, I realize humans are ugly to insects...or whatever that is on your Avatar.

A thri-kreen monk. My jump skill is ridiculous (currently 65 at ECL 9). Will make a good DC for the Swooping Dragon Strike maneuver when I multiclass to warblade. Not exactly optimal, but he's fun...
 


irdeggman

First Post
So the Dispel BS cancels itself out?

Riddle me this...

If casting Feather Fall is now an Immediate Action...which you can't take FF'd. What happens when you are FF'd and someone knocks you off a 100' cliff?

There was a lengthy thread on this very topic.

Basically my logic in interpretation of the rules is this. . .

Per the RAW all of your movement is resolved on your turn in the initiative order.

The trap (which is much harder than being pushed but substitute "attacker" here) makes its attack on it's turn (let's say it was a surprise).

So the surprise attack is successful, you now will fall on your turn (when all of your movement is resolved).

So on your turn your start to fall - but are no longer flat-footed so can cast feather fall.

That is my logic.

I note that my interpretation still allows for all of the acitons to work pretty much as written and essentially requires no house-rules (or further brain wracking on how to handle things).
 

Arrowhawk

First Post
There was a lengthy thread on this very topic.

Basically my logic in interpretation of the rules is this. . .

Per the RAW all of your movement is resolved on your turn in the initiative order.
Per the d20srd, if you are Bull Rushed, you are moved during the attacker's turn and you provoke AoO as a result. I don't see how one can come to a reading that would resolve the attacker's movements on the attacker's turn and the defender's movements on the defender's turn. That would lead to a situation where for who knows how many intervening turns, the Attacker was actually past the Defender...then suddenly the defender blinks to the Defender's position as a result of the Bull Rush?

Now i'll throw my wooden shoe in the machine...what happens if it's a 30' fall and there is a creature who is waiting next to the square in which you'll fall, and the creature's turn comes up before yours? Do you just hang in mid-air until it's your turn...out of the creature's reach?

The trap (which is much harder than being pushed but substitute "attacker" here) makes its attack on it's turn (let's say it was a surprise).
What do you mean by "is much harder"? Do mean harder to resolve?

So the surprise attack is successful, you now will fall on your turn (when all of your movement is resolved).
So an object which is knocked over by a creature would never fall because it does not have a turn?

I note that my interpretation still allows for all of the acitons to work pretty much as written and essentially requires no house-rules (or further brain wracking on how to handle things).

I think there are two things at work here. The first is that WotC wants to allow people to "react" to various situations without that incurring some Action tax and preventing the character from taking a Full Round action on that character's regular turn. Which is why they categorize things that are "no action" or "nonaction" activities: You can do these things and still take your Full Round action.

The second problem is making sure these things are not construed in a way that suggests that the character "had a chance to act before his regular turn." This is crucial to preserving the FF status. With an Immediate Action, they just flat out said, you can't do this FF'd. Problem solved. I doubt anyone considered the impact to Feather Fall and being FF'd when you get knocked off a cliff (but you never know). It's also a safe bet they overlooked the free action Speak option...but there's little doubt they do not intend this to remove FF'd even though, RAW, would technically allow it. Like Celebrim would argues...if the literal meaning of the rules seems self contradictory...then you are forced to look for an alternative interpretation that gives meaning to the words. I believe this is called "construction" with respect to contract law.

I'm not done twisting your corpus collosum in a knot irdeg. Let's say you fall off a 10' ledge while being FF'd, but you make your Reflex save and take no damage. Are you still FF'd when other creatures come over to attack you...before you've had your turn?
 

kitcik

Adventurer
Basically my logic in interpretation of the rules is this. . .

Per the RAW all of your movement is resolved on your turn in the initiative order.

The trap (which is much harder than being pushed but substitute "attacker" here) makes its attack on it's turn (let's say it was a surprise).

So the surprise attack is successful, you now will fall on your turn (when all of your movement is resolved).

So on your turn your start to fall - but are no longer flat-footed so can cast feather fall.

That is my logic.

I note that my interpretation still allows for all of the acitons to work pretty much as written and essentially requires no house-rules (or further brain wracking on how to handle things).

1) OK, well I don't have feather fall, but luckily I am going to Delay... and never fall.

2) OK, I got pushed on initiative 18, my init is 11, luckily my barbarian friend's init is on 12 and he will grab me so I don't fall.

These two situations are ludicrous and I challenge your "logic."
 

anest1s

First Post
1) OK, well I don't have feather fall, but luckily I am going to Delay... and never fall.

2) OK, I got pushed on initiative 18, my init is 11, luckily my barbarian friend's init is on 12 and he will grab me so I don't fall.

These two situations are ludicrous and I challenge your "logic."

Delay is an ''non action'' action, so you would fall.

Well. If someone pushes you over a cliff, and at the same time your barbarian friend sees whats gonna happen and rushes to save you...why not? Every action happens at the same time after all...
 

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