Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.

[The Shadow]

Dissociated mechanics! Nooooooo!!!!

If you insist. But how's it any different from the barbarian having a certain number of rages per day in previous editions?

Honestly, I don't think "times per day" is a very good mechanic for this sort of thing, I'd rather have some sort of Action Point mechanic for it, but whatever.

(You know, each class having its own distinctive Action Point tricks could be kind of cool. The fighter gets to surge, the rogue gets to reroll, other classes get other things.)

 

[Vikingkingq]

What if instead of Dailies, Rogues and Fighters could take half-damage on an attack to pull off a great effect as I suggested in my fighter thread?

That way, rogues and fighters could do cool stuff all day long (so we don't get the daily realism problem) but wouldn't completely blow out balance.

 

[Doug McCrae]

If you insist. But how's it any different from the barbarian having a certain number of rages per day in previous editions?

Honestly, I don't think "times per day" is a very good mechanic for this sort of thing, I'd rather have some sort of Action Point mechanic for it, but whatever.

(You know, each class having its own distinctive Action Point tricks could be kind of cool. The fighter gets to surge, the rogue gets to reroll, other classes get other things.)

I agree with you completely. My cry of doom was merely parodying some attitudes I've seen elsewhere.

Dissociated mechanics are non-simulationist mechanics, and D&D has always been full of those, often accompanied by an ad hoc simulationist justification. Like hit points in the 1e DMG.

 

[Andor]

I am NOT crazy about per-day abilities, in fact I've started threads on the topic.

That having been said, while I perked my ears up at these, I didn't go into a fit of nerdrage. I think it's becuase they are in sets of 2, so you don't have that terrible "But if I use it now what if I need it later?" dilema that makes me hate the over-use of per-day resources.

I probably will give negative feedback on the mechanic, but it's not make-or-break at the level and in the way presented. Also, I want to wait and see how it goes in play.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

What is this talk about elephants? I didn't find them in the playtest bestiary...

I'm not reading the bestiary or DM stuff as I want to experience the playtest as an uninitiated player. I didn't WANT to know there are no elephants in the Caves of Chaos. Please put references to the bestiary in spoilers.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Are you drunk? You may have rolled poorly on your search because you're disadvantaged.

I believe the condition is intoxicated, not drunk.

 

[BobTheNob]

Absolutely fine with them

 

[Remathilis]

Yet you're okay with a Wizard who has studied his spells for years repeatedly every single day suddenly forgetting it once he casts it?

What's the difference?

Short answer: Its magic.

Long answer: There have been plenty of attempts to explain fire-and-forget magic. Magic runes imprint on your brain via study and then vanish. You mostly cast a spell ahead of time and only leave the final gesture to prepare a spell. It doesn't matter, its magic. It doesn't exist in this world, so we have no basis on which to compare it too. Finally, magic works regardless of mundane factors. I don't have to worry about whether the orc shamans would fall for my Come and Get It, or be tricked by my King's Castle maneuver, I just throw out magic words and a ball of fire appears out of thin air where I want it to be.

Whereas "martial" power, assuming it has no innate magical ability, is the domain of muscle memory, training, tactics, skill, etc. Once learned, its not forgotten. Kung Fu masters IRL don't forget how to split a board just because he used his ability once already today. So unless we want to redefine martial PCs and having some form of "magical" training that can be expended, we have to assume they're abilities SHOULD be able to be tried at will, or at least more than once a day, every day.

 

[B.T.]

Yet you're okay with a Wizard who has studied his spells for years repeatedly every single day suddenly forgetting it once he casts it?

What's the difference?

First of all, that's not what happens, at least in 3e D&D. Preparing spells is a matter of casting the spell until only a small amount remains un-cast. When the spellcaster actually casts the spell, he's completing the spell (hence the ensuing fireworks).

Second of all, magic works according to different rules so it can't be really compared to anything that one could feasibly attempt in real life. Thus, if the rules of magic dictate that all wizards must wave their hands about and speak funny words, no one blinks an eye. Likewise for the spell being erased from their minds.

 

[slobster]

Short answer: Its magic.

On the whole, daily martial stuff doesn't bother me. At least, it's not a reason for me to play one system over another. Or it's a very minor reason.

But I do have an aesthetic preference for mechanics that are as rooted in the fiction they are trying to represent as possible. In my experience it promotes creativity and outside-the-rules thinking, too. The more you can get your head around what the system is trying to represent, the more you feel confident that you can improvise within it.

So yeah. It's magic. It has license to offer seemingly nonsensical effects, as long as they meet some subjective minimum for internal consistency. If I read a spell description that says it rains pink cupcakes when you roll a natural 1 on your attack roll, I can deal with it. If the fighter experienced showers of fuschia pastries on 5% of his attacks, I'd be all "wtf, mate?"