Dwarf and poison.

[Ahnehnois]

One thing I noticed is that the medusa doesn't have a save on her poison damage, at least not directly. You have a dex save to avoid the attack, and then take regular damage + poison.

So dwarven poison resistance to saves would not work in this instance....unless you want to rule that I get advantage to DEXTERITY saves against poison as well.

That is interesting. Maybe this will change. Or maybe we need...poison DR.

 

[Derren]

Again, you're going for the extreme example

When the article opens with extreme examples then it should be prepared to be judged by them.

Why is it unreasonable that Knock opens locks when its only function is to open locks?
But I give you the rogue finding traps as that is a learned ability which should be learnable without the whole backstab package.

 

[slobster]

And lastly, some things simply do work in absolutes. A Geiger counter detects radiation, see invisibility detects invisibility.

Technically, a Geiger counter detects only ionizing radiation (alpha and beta particles, gamma rays). It does nothing for less energetic radiation like microwaves, radio waves, infrared, ultraviolet . . . and so on. So bad example .

From a game design perspective I have no problem with poison immunity. In previous editions resistances got forgotten a lot, and it was annoying when you rolled a 1 anyway. Racial bonuses in general got forgotten a lot or were simply not very useful, since there were so many little bonuses. I'm liking the mechanically streamlined races as well as the absolute immunity to an occasional (but significant) threat.

From a scientific perspective, yeah, blanket poison immunity is a tad ridiculous. I've already hurt my brain trying to figure that one out. But it doesn't bother me in play, because this is a world where lizards the size of galleons can fly under their own wing power without the aid of magic. Physics in D&D is already borked, I'm just along for the ride.

 

[Derren]

Actually, despite my support for blanket immunities, I am also unsure if poison immunity fits with dwarfs.

Sure, if they use, I think it was Heroquest, lore where dwarfs are literally beings of metal and stone, then yes it works. But having "normal" dwarfs with immunities otherwise only associated with the undead? Imo not all poisons should work on all races anyway, but that would likely be too complex as a rule for what 5E seems to intent to do.

 

[Sir Brennen]

I'm on board with the No Absolutes train of thought.

This is what I'd like to see:

Poison Resistance: A dwarf character has Advantage on any Save to resist poison and Damage Resistance 5 against damage done by poison. Duration of non-damaging poison effects are halved for dwarves.

(Optionally, the DR could scale by adding +1/2 level.) With DR, the dwarf becomes effectively immune to many minor poisons, but particularly potent dwarf king killing poison isn't out of the question.

This is exanding on the way 4E handled it for a Tiefling's fire resistance, and I thought that was a great idea. Since poisons in the playtest seem to be mostly straight up damage, I think DR against it works well. The Advantage mechanic, DR scaling and duration modification can be added\removed to tweak to the DM's taste for his campaign.

Advantage vs. certain effects and modfied durations would work well for toning down other immunities as well, such as Elf vs. Sleep\Charm.

 

[Campbell]

Here's why Sean K. Reynolds article falls flat for me: He uses corner cases to justify taking awesomeness out of the game. If the last couple editions have taught me anything its that the game could use more gonzo, not less. It's part of why we see so many Sense of Wonder arguments. Let's address his points -

• Gods break everything. Of course. The game functions better when dieties stay hands off or are portrayed as highly powerful, but not neccesarrily all powerful supernatural creatures. If you're going to have polytheism embrace actual polytheism.
• Problem: Fire giants are immune to fire despite being mortal creatures. Solution: Stop treating fire giants as mortal creatures. Sure if you cut them they bleed, but so do their mortal enemies - the gods of Asgard. A fire giant is more than a really big dude that's immune to fire. Embrace their mythic scope.
• Problemrotection From Evil stops all mind control. This crap is only necessary because the mechanics for domination suck, especially in 3e. If saves stay within reasonable ranges so they aren't "Pray for a 20" and you have a hp threshold that allows a character to shake off domination with a successful save if they are given commands that go against their natures you can re-purpose protection from evil as a means to contain demons and the like.
• Problem: Knock can open any door and invalidates open locks skill. Solution: Get rid of knock. It's too subtle. D&D magic is about flash and panache. Wizards see a door - they use magic to rip it off its hinges. You want subtlety or stealth see a rogue.
• Problem: See Invisibility pierces any Invisible Spell. Solution: Working as intended. The God of Invisibility shouldn't use invisibility spells. He is invisible. The wizard uses magic to cheat the senses, only fair to let magic beat magic. That's the cost of magic. You want dependable results see a rogue.
• Problem: Super fire that beats fire immunity. Don't do it. A dwarf isn't just some human in a funny suit. Let them have their moment in the sun. If something makes sense thematically just go with it.

 

[the Jester]

Again, you're going for the extreme example and missing the point. Is it reasonable that only rogues can find and disable traps? No.

Says who? Why is it not reasonable?

Is it reasonable that Knock automatically opens all locks? No.

Says who? Why is it not reasonable?

Is it reasonable to have a dwarf, a living creature, be completely immune to all poisons? No.

Says who? Why is it not reasonable?

I know, I know- the "who" is SKR. But that doesn't make him right.

Now, I agree that it's not reasonable to have traps be "rogue only", but the other two? Not so much.

As far as all the "you can't poison a dwarven king!" arguments- sure you can. Start with a dm-written poison that reads, "This poison ignores immunity to poison" or with a spell that has an effect like, "The target makes a Con save or loses immune and resist poison" and you're already there. It's really not that hard to deal with.

 

[slobster]

I'm just curious.

Why are we all so intent on poisoning the Dwarf King in this thread? Is there some reference that I'm missing? Is it just a matter of closing off interesting storylines? Couldn't you as easily have the Dwarf King stabbed to death in his own chambers, locked from the inside and immune to scrying and teleportation?

It's not like poison is the only method of assassination out there, or the only way to add intrigue. Closing off one for the occasional adventure that deals with dwarven royalty . . . maybe I'm missing something?

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm just concerned that it mucks with some D&D lore. I mean, it's not a huge deal, but there have been dwarf kings allegedly killed through poison. Maybe if it was 'immunity to poisons -- however, it is possible for a mage who has a sample of a dwarf's blood to enchant a poison so that it will affect that one specific dwarf.'

That would still let you assassinate dwarf kings, while leaving mainstream poison non-threatening for dwarves.

Evolution... Human life expectancy used to be 40s at one point in history too. Even ask Rick Stodard, he never thought of 23 as middle aged.

 

[Derren]

I'm just curious.

Why are we all so intent on poisoning the Dwarf King in this thread? Is there some reference that I'm missing? Is it just a matter of closing off interesting storylines? Couldn't you as easily have the Dwarf King stabbed to death in his own chambers, locked from the inside and immune to scrying and teleportation?

It's not like poison is the only method of assassination out there, or the only way to add intrigue. Closing off one for the occasional adventure that deals with dwarven royalty . . . maybe I'm missing something?

No idea.
But I have noticed before that there are some type of GMs who do not create their adventures with the lore and possibilities D&D offer in mind and then whine about the system when their adventures do not work.
Example: Teleport is stupid, I had so many random encounters planned for the long travel."