Qik
First Post
While I understand the idea of trying to limit the expansion, a target number feels a bit arbitrary to me. I'm not sure that adding X races is a good measuring stick, and part of me wonders if that might not push us to accept more than we should (if we're 'under the limit'), though I could certainly be wrong. YMMV, of course, but I think when we get to the point of starting to consider new races, we might be better off agreeing on a good standard on what makes a race 'playable' in LPF.
Point taken. I had suggested articulating a target number in part just to see if others had a number in mind. Given that some have expressed a hesitancy for adding races, I thought it might also be helpful for those people to weigh in on an amount they might see as unacceptable, etc. But I can see the logic with identifying a standard first, and then going from there.
I'm probably being a little redundant, since I think I talked about this in the Wayang proposal, but I figure it doesn't hurt to toss it into the general thread so it's part and parcel of the archive. So:
***The uniqueness continuum***
* A new race that doesn't really bring a lot of new flavor to the table doesn't seem worth the time to me. There's already a lot of choices to make when creating a character, so if we can avoid too many options that are 'just a little different,' I think we should.
Very, very much agree. Just by way of example, this was my main motivation for proposing the Wayang. I think they offer a unique identity - a reclusive people tied to the shadow plane - backed up/expanded by unique mechanics - non-charasmatic, non-weak small race. The options and fluff added by the ARG only supported these distictions, IMO.
* Some races may also be TOO oddball, however, or have a flavor which is decidedly at odds with LPF for any of a number of imaginable reasons. If we can't come up with a reasonable place to fit culturally, that's a solid strike against it.
I agree. There were a few in the ARG that stuck out to me in this way, although I may be hard pressed to make a properly-formulated argument against them. For instance, I don't think the Vishkanya would fit into our setting.
* Then, too, a race--oddball or not--may fit best as a rare species. I think we need to make approvals with the assumption that any new race will suddenly become the only race people choose. If it strains credibility to have the Dunn Wright packed with X species looking for work, I think we should be especially careful about giving it a thumbs up.
I think this is the sticking point for most people, and the most common argument against allowing so many playable races. For instance, I've been unexpectedly drawn to a lot of the elemental races in the ARG, especially the Oreads and Slyphs. In part, this ties into what I want to do with Illi Esse - integrate the planes into our setting in a way that allows access from all levels, not just high ones. In a place like Illi Esse, where humans have been intermixing with planar beings for hundreds of years, having Oreads and Slyphs and the like makes a lot of sense.
At the same time, I think we can agree that such beings are relatively rare in the wider world of E'n. But at the same time, so are sorcerers and rage-empowered barbarians and magically musical bards and on and on. My point being: we're all already playing outliers, so I'm not sure it stretches incredulity any further to play racial outliers as well. And while I understand that having 50 Ifrits hanging about the Dunn Wright Inn would be odd, I don't think we'll end up with a situation like that. Look at LPF as it stands: even though monstrous races like tengu and merpeople and tieflings are in play, most of the PCs I see come about are the core races. And lots of humans. I don't think adding a few exotic races as playable would skew the currently-acceptable ratio, if for no other reason than people will continue to view them as exotic.
One thing that has been bothering me about this point of view is whether or not the judges of Living Pathfinder would be opposed to the inclusion of Ethnically different parts of pre-existing races.
For example one of the reasons I am highly favorable to the inclusion of Variant Racial Traits is that it allows a creative player to come up with a custom version of a given race that is potentially unique to a given region of the world of E'n. In point of fact I could even see an argument being made for sanctioning certain packages of racial variants so that there are pre-existing ethnic groups that are native to E'n. This way we don't have to worry as much about the whole thing with people wanting to play races that are similar yet not all that different from pre-existing races... because the pre-existing races already have different ethnicities within them that are sanctioned.
The reason I want variant ethnic groups is because this system would very heavily reflect REALITY. For example there is no single one type of human being. There are Chinese Humans, Indian Humans, African Humans, Arabian Humans, Caucasian Humans, and many many more. Each of which has evolved a different subset of traits that is unique to the region where they originally came to live. I feel it is just as likely that a similar set of evolutionary traits would exist in the various species of creatures on E'n. For example the Elves of two different forests would likely be slightly different in skin pigmentation, and possibly also in how they interact with their respective forests. Humans who live in the high Mountains would likely have evolved a lighter skin tone than humans who live in the deep desert. Etc... Etc...
While I see where you're coming from, DC, I would be against this. I think it would limit fluff - saying races with X characteristics only come from such-and-such a place would restrict those races to that culture and location. And I wouldn't like to set something like that in stone. I don't like the idea of us creating such a strict fluff-to-mechanics ratio that would limit options for someone new to LPF who joins us on down the road. Basically, I want E'n's fluff to open possibilities, not limit options, and what you're recommending sounds to me like it would limit options.
For instance, there are a lot of alternate racial traits that tie elves to water. But there could be a lot of explanations for this - elves tied to the sea, elves tied to a river, elves tied to a specific lake in a specific mountain, etc. So if we say, "Elves with the Spirit of the Waters trait come from a specific culture or specific people living along the Ohm river," we've linked those two in a way that could deter, say, someone wanting to make a sea elf.
Whew. Hopefully all that makes sense. Friday is a hyper-early morning for me, so my thoughts aren't always congealing by this point in the day...