I don't see it as that. AC is the threshold it takes to actually make physical contact, not to turn a serious blow into a less serious one. Meeting or beating AC means you make physical contact, and HP/damage is a measure of how solid the contact is.
Yeah, and when you hit, you bypass the armor, correct? It means that even with the armor on, you still make contact with the person under the armor. Whether it's something like hitting at a joint, breaking through a link in the mail, stabbing through the leather or padding, etc.This clearly cannot be the case because Armour adds to AC.
I'm not seeing the objection to the idea that AC is a threshold for making contact. And your point doesn't seem to negate mine at all. Am I missing something?
Which makes me ask: why do we need a hp mechanism in addition to AC - because AC also represents the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one?
Yeah, because I narrate some misses as being deflected off of armor or shields (like if it hits touch AC but not Armor) and generally a complete miss that doesn't even come close misses even the Touch AC.Ah, so you mean actual contact with flesh rather than just contact.
OK, I can kind of see where your are coming from here.
Roger Musson, in "How to Lose Hit Points and Survive" (White Dwarf c 1980, the frst V/W system I know of) addressed fireballs and dragon breath (deliver Wounds unless you save), awareness (surprise, rear attacks, stones dropped on people, etc all deal automatic Wounds) and fatigue (moving a heavy rock might suck hp), etc. I don't think he discusses falling damage, but the implication of his sytem is that it should do Wound damage.Falling is a weird case that doesn't satisfy any model that I'm aware of (do Vitality/Wounds systems address falling better? I hadn't noticed any specifics dealing with it.).
I agree with you that there are not tiers. Each hp is potentially a mix. But where I think I differ from you is that I think that any single hp, when lost, might be a mix, or just fate, or just physical injury, depending on context and consequence.I suppose if you had to boil it down, it's that I still adhere most to "HP is a mix" and every hit that does damage is also a mix. I think in all honesty, that's where I diverge with HP is Fate people. Every hit that does damage is represented by the loss of HP that is a mix of all the different elements. I don't see a tier with some HP only being fate points and some only being meat.
Thanks. I'll have to look that one up to read about it. That sort of makes sense, really. I know falling damage is the one standout that I think everyone looks at askance.Roger Musson, in "How to Lose Hit Points and Survive" (White Dwarf c 1980, the frst V/W system I know of) addressed fireballs and dragon breath (deliver Wounds unless you save), awareness (surprise, rear attacks, stones dropped on people, etc all deal automatic Wounds) and fatigue (moving a heavy rock might suck hp), etc. I don't think he discusses falling damage, but the implication of his sytem is that it should do Wound damage.
I think my perspective comes from the fact that really the first system I DMed was 2E (although I played 1E and BD&D) and that's where I think I probably internalized hits and damage, which stayed with me for all these years later, and that is potentially why my playstyle differs from yours.I agree with you that there are not tiers. Each hp is potentially a mix. But where I think I differ from you is that I think that any single hp, when lost, might be a mix, or just fate, or just physical injury, depending on context and consequence.
To answer your question: It isn't necessary to deplete HP. My example was for illustrative purposes, for the concept of attrition itself. Sir Henry's expeditions are a classic. I think you are arguing against the example rather than the concept of attrition.
For strategic attrition, yes supplies matter, but there is also tactical attrition. Escaping from the headhunters cooking pot and running through the jungle over many days with headhunters chasing you like game, HP attrition works. Holing up in the tree bole during the rainstorm might give you some respite (a few hp) but not the whole enchilada (full hp).
I agree with you that there are not tiers. Each hp is potentially a mix. But where I think I differ from you is that I think that any single hp, when lost, might be a mix, or just fate, or just physical injury, depending on context and consequence.