Tell me about Savage Worlds

[amerigoV]

Here are my few cents.

On why Savage Worlds Rocks (and some differences between D&D and SW):
https://lab.obsidianportal.com/wikis/sw-versus-dnd

Thoughts on how SW worlds for fantasy after running a Ravenloft game:
https://savage-ravenloft.obsidianportal.com/wikis/running-savage-worlds

Before Savage Worlds I was purely a D&D guy. I thought I did not like other genres. That turned out to be false -- I am a system mastery guy and I did not want to have to learn new systems every time I had a new idea. SW is good enough across most genres (and runs the same) that I can use it for about anything. In the last couple of years I have run the following:

• Fantasy/Horror (Ravenloft - campaign)
• 50 Fathoms - Pirates of the Caribbean meets D&D (ongoing campaign)
• My own take on Olde Skoole gaming (old D&D modules at cons) - The Moathouse, a segment of the Caves of Chaos, and Tomb of Horrors, segment of White Plume Mountain
• Played in a long Ptolus campaign (used SW plus a bit from Fantasy Companion)
• Two Star Wars one-shots - one was young Jedi escaping from the Temple when Vadar/501 attacked, and the other were people playing Stormtroopers on Endor (more horror/Vietnam style)
• Weird War 2 (why did the Germans pull their guns out of Point du Hoc right before D-Day? Well to summon a demon to wreck the landing, of course!)
• Pulp several times
• Horror (I ran the Wild Hunt twice - what out for the church/graveyard scene -- D&D players never run from anything and that is a TPK waiting to happen).

I am itching to run Hellfrost (fantasy - more Greyhawk with "Winter is Coming" theme). Shaintar angles to hit that more high fantasy angle, but that means different things to different folk obviously.

To illustrate its flexibility, at a recent Con I knew one of the GMs and he had to cancel. I quickly printed the WW2 pregens (a squad) and had that Point Du Hoc scenario in the back of my mind. I ran it off the cuff (no figs, no stats for enemies) and it flowed like dream.

Before, it was always "how could I stuff this idea I saw on TV into D&D?" Now its, "the rules are easy, how do I find the time to run this cool idea I just got from reading/TV/video game/random funny words together, etc." I am completely stuck with more game than I have time now.

 

[Greg K]

A couple of suggestions:
1. Do not run Fantasy as your first attempt with Savage Worlds if the only fantasy rpg your group plays is D&D. Approaching SW in terms of D&D without the appropriate setting rules to modify lethality will result in player shock and, most likely, a TPK! It is better to start with another genre.

2. Go to peginc.com and download some of the additional one sheets.

3. http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29061. A collection of links to insights and suggestions from Clint Black regarding Savage Worlds. It is kind of a faq that new GMs and players may find helpful (I collected them, because I find them useful when I came to Savage Worlds and others on the PEG site, quickly, requested it be made a sticky).
Note: The information was collected for the Explorer Edition and some of it was included in the current Deluxe edition. Much of it is still relevant.

 

[Greg K]

I am itching to run Hellfrost (fantasy - more Greyhawk with "Winter is Coming" theme). Shaintar angles to hit that more high fantasy angle, but that means different things to different folk obviously.

I have usually seen Hellfrost described as Forgotten Realms with "Winter is Coming" theme. Either way, I have the main book and it looks awesome. There are also plenty of supplements (some free). "Wiggy" is a very prolific writer.

Shaintar does look very good as well.

 

[amerigoV]

I have usually seen Hellfrost described as Forgotten Realms with "Winter is Coming" theme. Either way, I have the main book and it looks awesome. There are also plenty of supplements (some free). "Wiggy" is a very prolific writer.

Shaintar does look very good as well.

Diversion: I distinguish Hellfrost as Greyhawk as there is a more of a sense of "normal" than FR. It just reads more like "medieval with magic", much like Greyhawk does. I think of Greyhawk as a bit lower powered just because in its formative years most N/PCs were in the 1-12 range and not the uber-high level that FR has become defined. Also, in Hellfrost magic items are more from another time vs. everyone can create them. In FR, it just seems like every farmer had some old +1 sword lying around that you could have (not knocking it - high fantasy tends to quickly get powerful stuff in PCs hands).

FR reads to me as magic is more in the day to day lives of the non-adventurer than Greyhawk (or in Hellfrost). Now, Wiggy loves to write and the detail level is more to the FR scale with all the regional guides. So that comparison Hellfrost is more like FR.

I am not sure Greyhawk is dark in its fantasy angle, but Hellfrost is. In FR, any bad events to the local tends to be off screen and the high heroics wins the day. If you read through the adventures for Hellfrost, that is not the case - those bandits that you just killing may every well be townsfolk that you saved a few months ago from a monster but the crops failed. In FR, 99% they are just bandits.

In all, you cannot lose with either Hellfrost or Shaintar. Hellfrost has a darker edge and the world is more sparse. Shaintar is very much FR in its epic themes and goals (and was a inspiration to the designer as well).

Ok, back to more why Savage Worlds rocks!

 

[Morrus]

So I'm thinking that our SANTIAGO adventure path (a space western) is about as good a fit for Savage Worlds as anything is ever likely to be. I've no idea if there's a market out there, of course; SW is all new to me.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Since we're talking about it, would anyone be willing to sort it according to the criteria of this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?347663-Sorting-RPG-Systems

I'm hoping to gather as many games as possible over there so I can compile them into a document.

 

[innerdude]

Savage Worlds

Style

Decidedly "gamist," but with oodles and oodles of fun, nifty, elegant, "it just makes sense" nods to simulationism, and with a hint of narrativism in the form of Bennies.


Complexity

Definitely "rules medium."



Realism

Solidly "Adventurous."



Character Mechanics

Trait-based

 

[amerigoV]

Since we're talking about it, would anyone be willing to sort it according to the criteria of this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?347663-Sorting-RPG-Systems

I'm hoping to gather as many games as possible over there so I can compile them into a document.

Well, its kinda hard.

Its Rules Moderate (or Rules Elegant, as we Savages like to say). Its Trait Based. But its not tied to one genre so Realism is hard to categorize. Out of the box it plays Pulp games very nicely (1930 pulp and Eberron run very well under this). But there are setting dials where you can get rather gritty (Reality Blur's Realms of Cthulu (official license) is very gritty.

The Gamist/Narrativst/etc stuff is very hard as its not trying to mimic a specific genre. So for example:

Narrativist: Focus is on telling a story. What makes sense to a story is more important than how likely something might be to happen. Players usually have a degree of control over elements beyond their own character, such as spending resources to alter the world around them beyond what their character's in-game abilities would allow. Balance between character power in a combat sense is downplayed in importance.

There is some Narrativist control - Bennies can be spent to help change the outcomes to help the story. Its certainly not a pure story telling system, but Bennies are a huge part of the system (it puts the Luck in the players hands to spend as they will)

Simulationist: Focus is on exploring a simulated world. The world tends to behave in a way that makes internal sense, and that indicates a living setting that exists outside and beyond the character's lives or storyline. Random encounters and events sometimes help provide this sort of verisimilitude. Players affect the world primarily (often exclusively) through the choices and abilities of their characters.

The game works nicely with "real world tactics" in mind. If you play the Weird Wars 2 game, charging a machinegun nest will get you killed just like in real life (you probably will run out of Bennies before you make it ). This might be where SW mostly resides as its mostly actions that impact the world, with Bennies as a expenditure of luck.

Gamist: Focus is on challenge and balance. Whether the world is more of a story backdrop or a living world, the emphasis is on characters who are balanced against each other and against obstacles pitting their game stats against those obstacles in an attempt to overcome challenges and earn rewards.

There is a ton of swing in the system. A goblin can one-shot a Dragon if the dice go hot. That Swing is controlled through the Bennies (luck). This is probably the weakest score -- its not D&D 4e where the math always works out. But on the other hand its not like there is a class or combo that dominates the game.

So probably Highest on Sim, Medium on Narr, and lowest on Gamist. I am reading Gamist as tight systems against each other. In SW, you run your PCs against all sorts of obstacles and there are nice subsystems to resolve things like Chases and Mass Combat (and regular combat), but there is not an EL/CR/XP system that is going to tell you how a fight will run.

Others feel free to disagree as I never paid that much attention to the N/S/G stuff - I just like to roll dice and kick butt.

 

[innerdude]

So my reservations (I grabbed the PDF from RPGNow, though I've not read the whole thing yet) are pretty much the things you are all saying they will be: the limited character advancement and the wound system. And initiative is just completely random, unaffected by the character/creature? That said, it does seem ideal for non uber-heroic games.

Honestly, I wish I could give you some advice on the wound mechanic, but it's really one of those things that you either "get," and use the system as it's intended, or you don't, and you find it's just not for you. If you're concerned about it early in your "trial run," follow @amerigoV 's advice, and limit the amount of soaking you allow enemies to do. Also, give the players an extra benny to start with for the first 2-3 sessions until they get used to the shaken/wounded/soak paradigm.

For me, I find the actual damage / wound mechanics to be simple and effective; it's the way Savage handles healing that I've disliked (and thus house ruled). If you're used to 4e's "Yeah, spend a healing surge, and keep moving," Savage World's rules as written might feel overly harsh. And in some ways that's kind of the point.

At first I recommend you play the healing rules as written, then decide to tweak as necessary. Even something as simple as ignoring the RAW's "lack of equipment" penalties for heal checks can make life easier on PCs. Be careful with this though; early on I played somewhat fast and loose with the healing checks, and in-game it often felt like my players were performing the equivalent of arthroscopic surgery with sticks, a strip of leather, and spit.

One house rule I added, that I think is pretty solid, is I made it so that if a PC takes a third wound, it can only be healed with a raise on a heal check. Wounds 1 and 2 only require a standard success. To me this simulates the process of getting seriously hurt and suffering the consequences, while also increasing the value in having access to people with real healing skill.

As far as being worried about initiative, DON'T BE. Savage World's initiative system is one of the ABSOLUTE best parts of the system. The tension in battle of wondering if you or your foe is going to get the next swing in is fantastic. Once you try it, D&D's boring old "roll a d20 and add your initiative bonus" just flat out sucks. If your players are worried about it, have them investigate the initiative-based edges. Oh, and one more thing---I've discovered that I like Savage Worlds better with THREE jokers in the deck, rather than the standard TWO. Players get more excited for it, and it adds value to the edges that activate when a player receives a joker.

 

[amerigoV]

Savage Worlds

Style

Decidedly "gamist," but with oodles and oodles of fun, nifty, elegant, "it just makes sense" nods to simulationism, and with a hint of narrativism in the form of Bennies.

See, I cannot even argue against the complete opposite characterization