D&D 5E Do You Think Spare the Dying is a Problem?

[Wulfgar76]

People who like death can be rest assured that it is possible to die using the default rules. If they want it to be more deadly, they can remove Space the Dying, Healer's Kits and the Healer feat. If they want it to be more deadly, they can also change the number of death saves you get, or change how much damage it takes beyond 0 it takes to kill someone.

Truly. The "Lethality Dial" is easier to adjust in Next than it is any other edition.

Ignore spare the dying, eliminate hit dice, and force a real 'death save' whenever you are reduced to 0 hit points and you're got the most brutally deadly edition of D&D since OD&D.

 

[GX.Sigma]

On the other hand I've found that this is not very likely to ever occur in real play. As a touch spell, you must be near the target. Said target is almost invariably right in the middle of a very dangerous situation, because why else would he be dying?

This response makes no sense to me. You're just agreeing with my point: You're saying that if you move away from the Cleric, you're making a stupid mistake and are at risk of dying. Which means you agree that a character can't die if he's next to the Cleric.

Not having a cleric is a tactical mistake. But...In order to actually die you have to make a number of mistakes in a row, of which not having a cleric is only the first.

This pretty much sums up the situation.

 

[Sage Genesis]

This response makes no sense to me. You're just agreeing with my point: You're saying that if you move away from the Cleric, you're making a stupid mistake and are at risk of dying. Which means you agree that a character can't die if he's next to the Cleric.

I wasn't responding to any of your specific points, I was providing my opinion on the spell without any direct response to your post. Your post seems to imply that you're under the impression that I was disagreeing with you in some way. I wasn't.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm not fond of it as a cantrip, but that's more about me not being generally fond of cantrips. Since it's roughly the equivalent of a PC bandaging and stabilizing another, I've got no real issues with the cleric doing it faster than some guy with some bandages.

 

[Skyscraper]

So essentially, what people are saying against this cantrip, is :

1) that a cleric standing next to a dying character should not be able to heal him up to 1 HP at all?

2) Or, that a cleric a cleric standing next to a dying character should not be able to heal him up to 1 HP by using only a swift action?

3) Or, that a cleric standing next to a dying character should not be able to heal him up to 1 HP repeatedly?

I think no one objects to #1. People appear to object to #2 and #3.

I have no play experience with this cantrip, but D&D has evolved and cleric healing is now:

a) quick. A cleric does not need to sacrafice an action to heal. (Except stronger heals.)

b) abundant. Consequently, a cleric standing near anyone should be able to heal him repeatedly.

The cantrip consequently appears aligned with this philosophy. If you want the cleric to pay an action for healing saving a dying friend, or if you want him to save one but not two dying friends during a battle, you're straying away from the recent design philosophy for clerics, in my humble opinion. The cantrip is then not what you want to critisize, but the very essence of this philosophy.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I voted that I have played a lot of D&D Next, and it is a problem, but i don't think its so much as a problem but as embracing a different playstyle where creatures are easily brought back to consciousness and into the action, which gives a different feel.

We've playtested different iterations of Spare The Dying and find it doesn't create the "springback " phenomenon when the spell only stabilize rather than heal. Otherwise, it just get people to pop back regularly in combat without using any expandable ressources, since Spare The Dying is a cantrip usable at-will.

Personally i'd prefer if it was just stabilizing automatically, without having to make a Wisdom (Medicine) check and expand a use of your healer's kit.

 

[Argyle King]

I don't know how to answer the poll. I don't think it's a problem, but the reason I don't think it's a problem is because it seems to fit with the style of game I've come to expect from 5E. Note, that does not imply I favor that style (nor would I necessarily say I don't favor it,) but the spell -to me- seems to work as intended when compared to other parts of the game. If the spell is a "problem", I think the "problem" goes beyond the spell and is part of the game's design philosophy.

 

[Yaarel]

Two Clerics who cast Spare-the-Dying on eachother, become immune to death.

The effect is similar to the Regeneration spell.

The cantrip should Stabilize (remain 0 hp). Maybe with a casting time of 10 minutes, it can additionally heal a Stable target to 1 hp.

 

[thewok]

Two Clerics who cast Spare-the-Dying on eachother, become immune to death.

The effect is similar to the Regeneration spell.

The cantrip should Stabilize (remain 0 hp). Maybe with a casting time of 10 minutes, it can additionally heal a Stable target to 1 hp.

This would be the easy fix. Have 0 be unconscious, but not dying. Or have it be that you need to roll death saves until you're stabilized. Then, just have the Cantrip Effect be "the target no longer needs to roll death saving throws on his or her turn. Further damage to the target, however, will cause him or her to resume rolling death saving throws as before."

They could even write up a new condition called "Stabilized: You no longer need to roll death saving throws on your turn. Taking damage, however, removes the Stabilized condition."

 

[ccooke]

Two Clerics who cast Spare-the-Dying on eachother, become immune to death.

The effect is similar to the Regeneration spell.

The cantrip should Stabilize (remain 0 hp). Maybe with a casting time of 10 minutes, it can additionally heal a Stable target to 1 hp.

Well, think about that logically. Let's imagine a scenario:

Monsters act on initiative 20
Cleric 1 acts on initiative 15
Cleric 2 acts on initiative 10

Let's assume the party has no other healing (two clerics is a lot of healing already)

on the Monster turn, Cleric 1 is dropped.
Cleric 1 makes a death save - we don't care if he succeeds or fails.
Cleric 2 now takes her turn and casts Spare the Dying on Cleric 1, who now has 1 hit point.

It's now the Monster turn again. One monster goes for Cleric 1, possibly dropping him again. All Spare the Dying is doing here is typing up party resources, stopping them from healing Cleric 1 properly. Far from a situation where two Clerics with the cantrip are immortal, two clerics relying on this cantrip to keep them up are *extremely vulnerable*: All it'll take is two monsters connecting with a blow or one area-of-effect attack and they're both going to go down.

Spare the Dying isn't a cantrip to use when one of the PCs falls down in melee - it's to use once (or while) you get them out of immediate danger, trusting that they can sort their own healing out or play dead long enough to survive the fight.

I'd use it on a PC who has been downed by ranged attacks or (non-persistent) area-of-effect attacks. And if I had any choice in the matter, I'd probably use Healing Word instead.