RP-ing and Evil Cleric (Faerun)

[Phototoxin]

I'm trying to get my head around how I'd roleplay an evil cleric. This is more of a hypothetical as I usually DM but it's something which has niggled at me for a while.

Aside from Bane who has military/law/organisational aspects and Azmodeus who is similar (though less overt) I can see very few 'evil' deities which could be i) openly worshipped (as opposed to appeased) and ii) would have any rational, sane followers given that good/neutral deities *mechanically* offer the same benefits. But in a world where the local parish priest* can literally cure cancer this has to be taken into account

*ok probably a bishop, but still..

It's the motivations - why do these things, especially as wise/semi-intelligent beings? When good or neutral gods give you as good a powers and blessings as evil ones why worship (in a major way) evil ones?




Cyric is insane, how do you even know what to do? I appreciate that lies, strife etc fuel him but other than randomly cause havok or even organisedly cause it WHY do it ?

Loth - seriously a genocidal crazy spider queen demon thing who is racist and xenophobic should have died off ages ago. But her fear based society of 'better than you' drow make sense. But again escaping that fear and tyranny should happen.


Shar - My favourite deities (mainly for the fact that she opposes the mary sue god aka Mystra) - but it seems like all her followers would just be horrifically depressed and/or nihilistic. Nuke the world - then what? People who have nothing to loose ?
I tend to play her followers as either shadow-affiliated subversives/conspiracists (tying in with secrets)


Talos - What lead me to this - he's chaos/anarchy/weather/storm/lightning etc - I can see priests instigating rebellions and smiting things to show strength but also to appease talos which is more 'neutral // good' Why would you worship him in any major way? I realise that power is good, but so is fireballs from Lathander!


Auril - if you live in the cold I can understand it as an appeasement thing - doesn't necessarily make you evil
Loviatar - basically I see her (maybe immturely) as the S&M partner of Bane - tyranny, domination but more about pain and suffering rather than generic tyrrany


Mask - dead, a theif, again not sure why totally evil, stealing is not always bad..


Tiamat - evil dragon god, dragons are magic so probably seen more as an uber magical space dragon. Fair enough really.


Malar - again if one is smart enough to be a PC worship this? I can see it for wild living tribes of beasts/evil lycanthropes.


Talona - again why the heck would you be a cleric other than if you really needed to appease her. There is no logical reason to worship a capricious, disease riddled deity of poison whom no one likes.


Besheba - bad luck, you'd only worship her to either inflict bad luck or stop your own, which is kinda pathetic / the domain of her rival.


Any orc deity - why worship anything other than the biggest strongest ork IE gruumish?

 

[TwoSix]

I imagine for the same reason that people are evil in the real world. It's hard to be good, it's usually pretty easy to be bad.

 

[Phototoxin]

But to it's logical conclusion evil is self-defeating. I just don't get the mentality behind such characters

 

[Ahnehnois]

But to it's logical conclusion evil is self-defeating. I just don't get the mentality behind such characters

To its logical conclusion good is also self-defeating.

My perspective on these things is that anyone who isn't true neutral (which is to say, a rational person who takes into account everything he can and makes the best decision he can) is deluded, either by someone else or by some internal schism. In the context of evil, that suggests to me a few things.

Some evil might be based on prejudice; somehow the cleric has arrived at the belief that certain people are inferior, even though they are not. Perhaps he had a few nonrepresentative experiences in early life and jumped to the wrong conclusion, or maybe the bias was imparted on him by a specific individual or culture in general.

Many evil religions I suspect are overtly deceptive. The deity is selling some greater truth that supposedly hold the key to his followers achieving some goal (eternal life, or at least, a good afterlife, perhaps), even though this will not actually happen.

Some people might have no regards for themselves and be vindictive and spiteful, using their powers to impart suffering on others and not caring if they ultimately won't meet a good end themselves ("some men just want to watch the world burn"). Very possibly as a consequence of having been shaped by negative experiences themselves.

Some might simply be cases of collectivism; the deity holds sway because his followers band together and indoctrinate their children into the faith. They're raised on propaganda, so the evil is self-perpetuating and they never know any better. I suspect most racial evil deities could be described that way.

I also wonder about the statement that "good or neutral gods give you as good a powers and blessings as evil ones"; I don't know that this is true for each individual. It would not surprise me if some evil clerics were rejected from joining a good religion or kicked out (fairly or not); falls from grace are pretty classic.

 

[Obryn]

In a less melodramatic world, with less of a need for sneering devotees of Evil (with a capital E), most of the world would give offerings to keep these evil spirits at bay.

Otherwise, an Evil (again, capital E) cleric might just go with whichever god promised them the most power. The worship becomes a route to power, not the end in and of itself. It's like if you have a crazy boss, you don't try to attract their attention. But you collect your paycheck and go about your business. And when they call you to their office, you follow their orders.

That's all I got. The problem is that most people in the world don't see themselves as Evil.

 

[Phototoxin]

Yeah I can see the bitter and twisted fall into ones own petty vengeance and it makes for nuanced characters - that's the appeal of the evil cleric. The thing is that most evil clerics (eg taliban clerics?) probably thing that they are doing the right thing

How do you arrive at a cleric who thinks that a random earthquake which kills thousands is a deserving punishment (for whatever percieved slight) is a 'good thing'

And by good/neutral vs evil - both have the same range of powers, being evil is a lot harder in D&D than being good I find.

 

[Storminator]

I'm trying to get my head around how I'd roleplay an evil cleric. This is more of a hypothetical as I usually DM but it's something which has niggled at me for a while.

It's the motivations - why do these things, especially as wise/semi-intelligent beings? When good or neutral gods give you as good a powers and blessings as evil ones why worship (in a major way) evil ones?

Because the good and neutral gods have rejected you? They give you zero powers, because they've looked into your heart?

Cyric is insane, how do you even know what to do? I appreciate that lies, strife etc fuel him but other than randomly cause havok or even organisedly cause it WHY do it ?

EVERYONE worships Cyric. Everyone lies. It's just his priests admit it. Because they're better than everyone else.

Loth - seriously a genocidal crazy spider queen demon thing who is racist and xenophobic should have died off ages ago. But her fear based society of 'better than you' drow make sense. But again escaping that fear and tyranny should happen.

And she's got a crazy racist xenophobic cult. They're made for each other. Not a lot of surface dwellers among the faithful.

Shar - My favourite deities (mainly for the fact that she opposes the mary sue god aka Mystra) - but it seems like all her followers would just be horrifically depressed and/or nihilistic. Nuke the world - then what? People who have nothing to loose ?
I tend to play her followers as either shadow-affiliated subversives/conspiracists (tying in with secrets)

Shar also has the Shadow-weave, so she's got a lot of setting inversion tropes going on. There's a lot of interesting things that can be done with Shar (isn't there some Shar-Selune thing going on too? I forget)

Talos - What lead me to this - he's chaos/anarchy/weather/storm/lightning etc - I can see priests instigating rebellions and smiting things to show strength but also to appease talos which is more 'neutral // good' Why would you worship him in any major way? I realise that power is good, but so is fireballs from Lathander!

Lathander is such a stick in the mud. All that up at dawn crap. I just want to party and toss lightning bolts. Isn't there a god for that?

Auril - if you live in the cold I can understand it as an appeasement thing - doesn't necessarily make you evil
Loviatar - basically I see her (maybe immturely) as the S&M partner of Bane - tyranny, domination but more about pain and suffering rather than generic tyrrany

I could see a whole female empowerment angle, where all the classic info about Loviatar is just anti-female propaganda.

Mask - dead, a theif, again not sure why totally evil, stealing is not always bad..

Never played a game where Mask was alive, so I don't have a feel for him.

Tiamat - evil dragon god, dragons are magic so probably seen more as an uber magical space dragon. Fair enough really.

This one is pretty easy.

Malar - again if one is smart enough to be a PC worship this? I can see it for wild living tribes of beasts/evil lycanthropes.

I've seen my share of wild PCs.

Talona - again why the heck would you be a cleric other than if you really needed to appease her. There is no logical reason to worship a capricious, disease riddled deity of poison whom no one likes.

Unless you're capricious, disease riddled, and no one likes you.

Besheba - bad luck, you'd only worship her to either inflict bad luck or stop your own, which is kinda pathetic / the domain of her rival.

You get to throw curses that really bite. I can see that one.

Any orc deity - why worship anything other than the biggest strongest ork IE gruumish?

What if the bigger orcs won't let you?

In a lot of these cases, I imagine people can't just freely choose their lives like players choose PCs.

PS

 

[Dice4Hire]

If you want to play an evil cleric, I would mostly go for selfish, or a desire to throw your weight around with everyone you see.

Having everyone fear you would be good too. Think a bullied person who is intent on getting back in spades. Against anyone and everyone.

Just remember to make your guy capable of dealing on some level with the party, who might not be all evil, or need to be dealt with in a peaceful or mostly peaceful way.

I personlly thing evil games where the party spends all their effort fighting each other is pretty lame, and no supported well at all by D&D

 

[dracomilan]

I could well imagine being a follower of Umberlee

 

[Phototoxin]

That to me is more appeasement - my wife is an ex-pirate Rogue (neutral/unaligned) who's primary deity is umberlee.

I wonder if its a case of 'I'm a psycho militant feminist so I'll worship lovitar' or 'I worship lovitar because I like hurting people, and then become a militant feminist'

I can see Shargaas (ork assassin god) being worshipped by the weaker but more cunning orks who as mentioned 'aren't allowed' to crush the hearts of dwarves before the shrine of Gruumish.

As mentioned -its the orginisation of churches, I'm guessing that 90% of chaotic evil deities don't have actual organised religion - in that case how do they spread/prosletise/gain followers ? In addition in faerun if Follower# ∝ God Power then how do chaotic bat-dung crazies that aren't racially affiliated (eg cyric, talos) gain power? Or have they done away with follower-hood = power? (and what qualifies as a power - if you are a LG ork paladin of lathander you you still count for gruumish as you are an ork?)