D&D 5E Is D&D Next Open?

[Umbran]

Maybe... If I was in their position I would want as many people on board from the get go as possible. When 3e came out, Green Ronin released the first OGL product at Gencon when the PHB was released if memory serves and I believe Creature Collection came out before the Monster Manual.

Yes, and maybe having other publishers jump the gun like that is something they'd prefer to avoid, given that the first Creature Catalog was widely regarded as not very good?

Making publishers wait on the license for 4e is what made Paizo go with Pathfinder

That's hardly an argument that has any relevance for this transition. Paizo had a choice to make, between OGL and an unknown license. No publisher is in that position now.

 

[Alzrius]

Paizo had a choice to make, between OGL and an unknown license. No publisher is in that position now.

Actually, that's not accurate. Paizo had to choose between the OGL and no license at all.

While WotC had been talking about what they were going to do with Fourth Edition and third party publishers back when 4E was officially announced at Gen Con 2007, the public meeting they held was more of a brain-storming session about what people wanted to see, rather than any sort of indication of a plan. I know because I was there.

Paizo started working on Pathfinder no later (and probably quite a bit earlier) than March, 2008, which was when the first alpha playtest went out. In other words, Paizo probably had to pick their course right after that Gen Con, when WotC had no plan beyond "we're thinking of making a license, probably."

Given that there wasn't even the definitive statement that a license was forthcoming, Paizo's choice was essentially the same then as other companies are now - between the OGL or nothing at all, at least insofar as we've heard (rumors of two companies being told that Fifth Edition would use the OGL notwithstanding).

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

My strong impression is that (i) there remains internal disagreement within WotC/Hasbro regarding whether and how much D&D should be open, and (ii) WotC feels burned from the the 4e situation where early announcements indicated there would be an OGL but there was a lot of bad will from how it eventually played out, and (iii) knowing there is still internal division, they are determined to not say anything at all until there's an actual final license agreement they can send out.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Yes, and maybe having other publishers jump the gun like that is something they'd prefer to avoid, given that the first Creature Catalog was widely regarded as not very good?

Agreed on the quality of CC, but honestly who cares? Do you really think if a 3PP releases releases a subpar product that's going to affect D&D Next's sales in the slightest?

EDIT: Actually I remember Ryan Dancey high fiving people with his copy of Freeport as proof that the OGL was successful. They weren't mad about it at all.

That's hardly an argument that has any relevance for this transition. Paizo had a choice to make, between OGL and an unknown license. No publisher is in that position now.

Wasn't using that as an argument and I didn't say there were publishers in that position. I said you would think they want a lot of publishers behind the launch to generate buzz.

 

[Umbran]

Actually, that's not accurate. Paizo had to choose between the OGL and no license at all.

Fine. That doesn't change the fact that the situation now isn't the same. There's no major publisher supporting 4e that's hanging there trying to choose to continue to support 4e or move to 5e, is there?

Agreed on the quality of CC, but honestly who cares? Do you really think if a 3PP releases releases a subpar product that's going to affect D&D Next's sales in the slightest?

What I think isn't relevant. What WotC wants to do with respect to its brand is what's relevant.

EDIT: Actually I remember Ryan Dancey high fiving people with his copy of Freeport as proof that the OGL was successful. They weren't mad about it at all.

Well, Ryan Dancey, being the architect of the OGL, of course would have been happy at the time. Whether the folks at WotC now are happy about what happened is a separate question, isn't it? Apparently, they weren't so happy about it some years later, as they didn't replicate it with 4e. What their opinion is now, we can only speculate.

Wasn't using that as an argument and I didn't say there were publishers in that position. I said you would think they want a lot of publishers behind the launch to generate buzz.

If you weren't using it to support your argument, then why did you mention it in the same context?

 

[I'm A Banana]

So no official word. And I would like to know what publishers have let it slip! All I have on that are rumors so far. The Gale Force 9 stuff seems like physical items...so hard to say if that's a license to make some products, or a true OGL-ish phenomenon. But at least an openness to have other folks sell stuff with rules on it!

I'd be excited for a 5e OGL. I know I am always kind of amazed at how Ryan Dancey freakin' called pretty much what happened with Pathfinder and 4e before 3e was even done. The whole "They'll have to make it very different. A lot of people will reject it as 'not D&D' because it will be very different. Those people will go to a third party publisher who will become the steward of the OGL-ified rules." prediction was spot-the-frig-on. And his hypothesis of network externalities benefiting the industry leader seems to have been borne out. But on the other hand, change is always hard and traditional models are safe and tenacious.

It'll be interesting to see. I hope they go OGL. I'd be delighted.

 

[JVisgaitis]

There's some info about Gale Force 9 DDN products on the news page today.

Been a member for over 10 years and my bookmark still goes right to the forums... :/ Thanks.

Those are mostly accessories and they usually do that stuff for D&D. Was hoping to see an adventure or something fluffy.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Fine. That doesn't change the fact that the situation now isn't the same. There's no major publisher supporting 4e that's hanging there trying to choose to continue to support 4e or move to 5e, is there?

Well, it's somewhat the same in that they are eschewing 3PP again. That's the point I'm getting at. I checked on all the industry groups that I belong to and there is zero information on D&D Next. Just a couple links to the articles that were posted around the D&D Anniversary. Very different from the emails I received months before 3e went live asking publishers to support the new edition.

Whether the folks at WotC now are happy about what happened is a separate question, isn't it?

Considering the juggernaut Pathfinder has become I think we are safe in saying they aren't happy with it.

 

[Alzrius]

Fine. That doesn't change the fact that the situation now isn't the same. There's no major publisher supporting 4e that's hanging there trying to choose to continue to support 4e or move to 5e, is there?

No, there isn't. Which is exactly the same as the situation back in late 2007/early 2008, since they weren't "trying to choose" back then either. There was no choice to be made because there was no option to support 4E until much later, when after a long period of silence, uncertainty, and rumors, the GSL was finally announced...and then went through some more changes. (Clark Peterson, to be fair, was saying that he'd support D&D no matter what right from the start, but shortly after the GSL came out even he couldn't continue to do so.) So far it's the same for 5E, with no option for support and a long period of silence, uncertainty, and rumors.

Though I suppose one difference now would be that there's no major publisher supporting 4E the way 3E had at the end of its lifespan.

 

[Umbran]

No, there isn't. Which is exactly the same as the situation back in late 2007/early 2008, since they weren't "trying to choose" back then either.

Insofar as there were folks waiting as long as they could to see if WotC would produce a license, yes, there were people trying to choose. The realities of product pipelines ultimately made the choice for them.

Though I suppose one difference now would be that there's no major publisher supporting 4E the way 3E had at the end of its lifespan.

Finally, you get the point! The validity of Paizo's choice wasn't the issue. That nobody else is now in Paizo's position is the relevant bit!

That, and even if there were some major publisher supporting 4e, they still don't have a choice. If I recall correctly, the available license for 4e is revocable from WotC's end. Since it isn't OGL, another publisher cannot easily continue supporting and publishing the 4e rules in safety, unless WotC makes some promise to the effect that they won't revoke the license.