D&D 5E Official D&D Basic Discussion Thread

[the Jester]

On the subject of spell organization, as a DM since 1e who is currently running a 1e game after years of having spells organized all together in 3e... it's much better with them all together, at least in my eyes. It's easier to find Breadfan's Bamboozle in the big mess of spells by simply flipping open the spells chapter, noting that the first spell on the page is Bigby's bookworm bane and flipping forward than if I have to figure out what class and level the spell is from (especially if it comes from a monster stat block or trap), then find that class/level list and finally go alphabetically looking for Breadfan.

YMMV, of course.

 

[thalmin]

The strictly alphabetical spell list. Cleric and MU spells all listed together, A-to-Z. No sorting by class. No sorting by spell level. Just makes me mad (i.e. "crazy" mad, not "angry" mad). It's a purely preference thing. I just don't like it.

Put my cleric spells all together, in one section. List all of the 1st level spells, all together, alphabetically. Then all of my 2nd level spells. Then the 3rd. etc...Then the MU/arcane spells. Start with level 1, alphabetically. Then my level 2's. etc. etc... I shouldn't need to become familiar with 100+ pages of spell descriptions straight out the gate. Sure, I'll read them for fun. But for my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, level PC, I have these 2 or 3 or 5 pages to deal with...and that's it. Everything I need, that I might be casting (until I get into higher levels/using a bunch of spell levels) is there in those few pages.

The spells are listed, always and often in multiple places, by their spell level...then, we're basically told, go find it among these 100+ pages? It's just one of those things that has been changed in the game that doesn't make sense [never did to me].

As has been mentioned, why waste space reposting the same spell several times, once for each spell caster who might have spell on list (for PHB that will include Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard; not to mention possible sub-classes).

But a page reference on each spell list would be helpful for quickly finding the spells.

 

[random.brown]

I rather like the lack of optimizing features, such as feats.

How will it work when the PHB comes out if some players want to use feats, and some don't? Will adventures assume them?

 

[Remathilis]

Something leaped out at me discussing the rules with a friend.

3e had a lot of rules that were essentially "build around this". They were there for either balance or thematic reasons, but (because of the rules mastery element of 3.x) they were circumventable. For example: nobody suffered arcane spell failure; you either had ways around it (armored mage, twilight armor, spellsword) or you didn't wear armor (mage armor, canny defense, etc). Concentration was another; there were so many ways around make concentration checks (shielded casting, combat medic, reach spell) that you rarely had to make one. The effect either way was clear: spend resources (feats, spells, gold, or levels) to do what you want to do. Want to cast in armor? Spend resources and buy it off.

5e doesn't seem overly interested in that. Granted, we haven't seen the full rules yet, but it doesn't seem like its going to be full of "gaps to plug" like ASF. Proficient in armor? you can cast in it. Want to cast shocking grasp in melee? Go ahead! No need to multi-class, spend feats, etc, to do it. I hope that continues. I hope 5e doesn't need Mystic Theurges with Practiced Spellcaster ever.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I rather like the lack of optimizing features, such as feats.

How will it work when the PHB comes out if some players want to use feats, and some don't? Will adventures assume them?

Based on what we've seen in the play test, it's perfectly fine if some players at the table want feats and others don't -- they're really working hard to allow both side-by-side, and I can't think of ways that an adventure would require a particular feat in play -- feats just make you *better*, just like the alternative of a stat bump.

 

[TwoSix]

It was a cheap shot, and one that you know had nothing to do with the "Harry Potter generation", as indeed you go on to explain. It was a way of ghettoizing a minor play style choice, and you're better than that. .

Cheap shot? Are you guys talking about the same Harry Potter, the one that's The Lord of the Rings for the millennials? Making D&D more Potter-esque is an indisputable good thing.

 

[Stalker0]

This is Well said. If at any point during that hour, an encounter comes by, players need to decide whether they are going to continue to rest or fight the encounter. And when they do, the clock resets... I can see groups struggling to fit the short rest in during some campaigns.

I agree here. There is a big difference between the 5 minute rest of 4e and an 1 hour long equivalent. Now in certain games and adventures it won't matter a bit, and that's no issue. But in other games that's a big difference.

I can say when you factor in things like timed adventure games and wandering monsters, that an hour stretch of time also makes a lot more sense. Rolling on a monster table every 5 minute stretch is a bit extreme....but doing so once every hour sounds a lot more plausible. Same with timed adventures....a 5 minute stretch of time to throw off the clock is a bit fiddly. But I think anyone can agree that taking a 1 hour break when the clock is ticking means you are pushing it.

 

[Agamon]

I rather like the lack of optimizing features, such as feats.

How will it work when the PHB comes out if some players want to use feats, and some don't? Will adventures assume them?

The feat comes at a cost (no ability boost). So there isn't really anything to assume. It's a loss of one type of boost for the gain of another.

That said, I'm with you on the lack of op features. That's pretty much what sold me. And I'm okay with the feats. A little customization isn't a bad thing.

 

[Agamon]

5e doesn't seem overly interested in that. Granted, we haven't seen the full rules yet, but it doesn't seem like its going to be full of "gaps to plug" like ASF. Proficient in armor? you can cast in it. Want to cast shocking grasp in melee? Go ahead! No need to multi-class, spend feats, etc, to do it. I hope that continues. I hope 5e doesn't need Mystic Theurges with Practiced Spellcaster ever.

Yep, this is a good thing from my point of view, as well.

 

[MerricB]

hunderwave is inconsistent with how Fireball is described (15' cube vs 20' radius), but that might be because Thunderwave also pushes the targets 10'. If you're using a grid, determining 10' from the edge of a sphere starts to get cumbersome, as opposed to just pushing two squares from the edge of the cube.

Thunderwave creates a horizontal line (or wall) of force, 15' long (and 15' high), which then travels 15' away from you, hitting and pushing any creatures it strikes. Note that you're not at the centre of the cube, you're at the edge. The force doesn't radiate from the centre of the cube.

Cheers!