D&D 5E Legends and Lore July 28: Keeping it Classy

[Ruin Explorer]

Fighter with a decent dex, light/medium armor, a bludgeoning weapon and the criminal background (Deception, Stealth, Thieves Tools, Gaming set) should do it. Hell, add the Tavern Brawler feat and your all set!

All set to be a slightly sub-par Fighter, sure. I think that Minigiant was hoping for a Fighter who swapped abilities out to actually be really good at being a Thug, or a Rogue who could Sneak Attack with STR weapons.

The latter is pretty much a must for 5E as time goes on (even if limited to Light STR weapons) - too many Fighter/Rogues and Rogues in fiction who fight that way to ignore, imho.

 

[CM]

That's problematic, though, Mouse, because new subclasses can only be used by new PCs.

Any DM who's not a jerk should have the good grace to let a player rebuild their character when a more appropriate class to fit the player's concept comes along. It's probably different in organized play, but I couldn't care less about that.

I don't have access to any books at the moment, but isn't the 5e PHB the most class-rich D&D core book yet? Talk about embarrassment of riches.


That said, I too have a number of class builds I hope to see fulfilled eventually (spirit shaman, artificer, warlord, healing bard, among others)

 

[Remathilis]

Any DM who's not a jerk should have the good grace to let a player rebuild their character when a more appropriate class to fit the player's concept comes along. It's probably different in organized play, but I couldn't care less about that.

I don't have access to any books at the moment, but isn't the 5e PHB the most class-rich D&D core book yet? Talk about embarrassment of riches.


That said, I too have a number of class builds I hope to see fulfilled eventually (spirit shaman, artificer, warlord, healing bard, among others)

Not sure what you mean by "healing bard": the preview bard class features has "song of rest" as a class ability, and the playtest bard got heal, raise dead, cure wounds, healing word, and lesser restoration spell access. (And that was before he gained level 9 spells). I'm going to go out on a limb and say bards can be as effective a healer as a non-life domain cleric.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Any DM who's not a jerk should have the good grace to let a player rebuild their character when a more appropriate class to fit the player's concept comes along. It's probably different in organized play, but I couldn't care less about that.

I quite agree, but that's still a rare case, in my experience, anyway. Players are unlikely to buy books for new stuff that would normally require them to restart their PC. YMMV!

I don't have access to any books at the moment, but isn't the 5e PHB the most class-rich D&D core book yet? Talk about embarrassment of riches.

Yes. The only disappointment for me is that as good as the stuff is for non-core-four classes, the stuff for the Fighter and Rogue is really sparse. Wizards and Clerics get more than half-a-dozen sub-classes each, effectively (and yeah, seriously, those are as mechanically complex as some of the Fighter/Rogue sub-classes), and Fighter and Rogue only get three, and one of those three in both cases is just "with a bit of wizard-magic". I'd really have liked to have seen the core four all get the same treatment - half a dozen subclasses each.

That said, I too have a number of class builds I hope to see fulfilled eventually (spirit shaman, artificer, warlord, healing bard, among others)

As ever, there's huge potential for expansion, and I was glad that they avoided calling Ancient Oath Paladins "Wardens", thus leaving the door open for them to come back.

 

[Reynard]

Yeah, "Great Old One" is a little on the nose, and I'm sadly tired of Cthulhu. Respect to Chaosium, but what was dark, tongue-in-cheek humor in the '80s has become a mass-market defanging of both the character and the genre. Jackson and Kovalic, I'm looking at you.

The Far Plane still had some tooth.

Point Of Order: Cthulhu is not a Great Old One, he is a merely a priest of said cosmic horrors.

 

[FadedC]

It is worth noting that a pact blade can use a greatsword and hit for 2d6 damage, which would theoretically place it ahead of eldritch blast. The problem is just the lack of support for pactblades beyond the extra attack. At lvl 3 a pactblade is ahead of the eldritch blast warlock, due to increased damage and 1 extra invocation. At lvl 5 the pact blade needs to take an invocation to support his build so he's now only ahead on damage. At lvl 10 the eldritch blast warlock gets an extra attack and the pact blade warlock does not. Now the pact blade is strictly behind.

On the plus side this is the type of unbalance that could be addressed somewhat easily in the final rules.

I just read through Warlock to see if I was missing anything, but it looks like whilst Blade Pact can easily get 2 attacks, they can't really get ANYTHING else which supports melee'ing. They have light armour or Mage Armour (equivalent to light armour), no shield (AFAIK), no way to get bonus melee damage (unlike even Clerics!) beyond STAT mod, no special manuevers, no ability to cast and attack, and generally no way to make melee a particularly good option. So they strike me as more like the flipside of the Eldritch Knight - really strong on magic, with an option to tack on a tiny bit of melee (actually less than the EK can tack on, magic-wise). And you'd pretty much need a really good DEX and a finesse-based weapon (STR would be kind of a waste as it wouldn't help your AC or anything).

I dunno, am I missing something? Eldritch Blast is pretty much always as good or better than hitting something with a sword, if you aren't already in melee - 120' range (no range penalties - much longer than most ranged weapons), 1d10 damage, +CHA if you take the option (which you probably should if intending to use it much), get 2 attacks with it at 5, 3 at 10, 4 at 20 (kind of better progression than a Fighter! That thing seems pretty badass.

 

[TwoSix]

It is worth noting that a pact blade can use a greatsword and hit for 2d6 damage, which would theoretically place it ahead of eldritch blast. The problem is just the lack of support for pactblades beyond the extra attack. At lvl 3 a pactblade is ahead of the eldritch blast warlock, due to increased damage and 1 extra invocation. At lvl 5 the pact blade needs to take an invocation to support his build so he's now only ahead on damage. At lvl 10 the eldritch blast warlock gets an extra attack and the pact blade warlock does not. Now the pact blade is strictly behind.

On the plus side this is the type of unbalance that could be addressed somewhat easily in the final rules.

If nothing else, you'd expect to see an invocation that lets the bladelock use his pactblade as a channel for eldritch blast, much like the Hideous Blow invocation in 3.5 (just hopefully not as terrible).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It is worth noting that a pact blade can use a greatsword and hit for 2d6 damage, which would theoretically place it ahead of eldritch blast. The problem is just the lack of support for pactblades beyond the extra attack. At lvl 3 a pactblade is ahead of the eldritch blast warlock, due to increased damage and 1 extra invocation. At lvl 5 the pact blade needs to take an invocation to support his build so he's now only ahead on damage. At lvl 10 the eldritch blast warlock gets an extra attack and the pact blade warlock does not. Now the pact blade is strictly behind.

On the plus side this is the type of unbalance that could be addressed somewhat easily in the final rules.

Indeed, but I will be very surprised if they do either buff pactblade to 3/4 attacks (20 doesn't really matter imho), and even then, you're 1.5 damage ahead for being in melee, and I'm not sure I'd want to make that trade in Light armour/Mage Armour!

 

[FadedC]

A 2-handed sword pact blade also has to take strength, meaning he has 4 important stats instead of just 3, which is potentially a big problem. There are probably ways to make it better just with existing resources. A fighter level for heavy armor and the great weapon fighter ability is probably worth taking. The heavy weapon feat is also pretty strong and will probably give you more power than any equivalent feat for an eldritich blast user. But really there needs to be some extra within class support, such as melee friendly spells or incantations.

Indeed, but I will be very surprised if they do either buff pactblade to 3/4 attacks (20 doesn't really matter imho), and even then, you're 1.5 damage ahead for being in melee, and I'm not sure I'd want to make that trade in Light armour/Mage Armour!

 

[Prism]

I really hope that the Eldritch Knight bucks the trend of previous editions attempts and enables the creation of a decent fighter-mage.

From what I have seen I would say there will be a fair amount of multi-classing done to make best use out of Eldritch Knight. As a straight class I can't see too much benefit from using evocation (damaging) spells compared with the fighters multiple attacks. Having self access to spells like fly, invisibility, blur and misty step is pretty nice though, all which are really useful until later levels. Two weapon fighting seems a nice fit with one handed weapon and staff or possibly a versatile weapon. An archer could work pretty well with ranged cantrips

For higher level spell slots, to make best use out of scaling evocations I would sprinkle in a good mix of a full caster class via multi-classing while basically keeping an eye on desired fighter attacks per round. So 6th level fighter/xxxx or 11th level fighter/xxxx could be interesting. You would never get the combat changing high level spells but would still high level slots for scaling spells