D&D 5E Comment on the negative article by John Dodd

[mmtbb]

Lately I've been wondering what the majority of users think about the new edition. I was noticing the negative article on the Starter Set found on the home page today.
I wanted to directly comment on this news headline. I see it's possible but I don't know how. If someone knows, I'd love to hear how. Some read these articles and think that the the writer's opinion is the way most think.
I find it interesting that there are a lot of posts at the bottom that don't agree. I wonder what the majority think of 5e so far? According to Amazon's customers, most like it. Are there other sites that are unbiased where you can get a good idea of the general feeling toward 5e?

 

[doctorhook]

Lately I've been wondering what the majority of users think about the new edition. I was noticing the negative article on the Starter Set found on the home page today.
I wanted to directly comment on this news headline. I see it's possible but I don't know how. If someone knows, I'd love to hear how. Some read these articles and think that the the writer's opinion is the way most think.
I find it interesting that there are a lot of posts at the bottom that don't agree. I wonder what the majority think of 5e so far? According to Amazon's customers, most like it. Are there other sites that are unbiased where you can get a good idea of the general feeling toward 5e?

Amazon's probably as unbiased as you'll get, given that it's frequented by all sorts. Overall, the reaction to 5E so far is very positive.

Mr. Dodd's review actually seemed pretty biased against 5E, because rather than assessing the 5E Starter Set on its merits, he compared it to a product with twice the contents for twice the price. His testers judged the kits on their contents (obviously preferring the box with more), while Mr. Dodd himself consciously tried to minimize the price disparity as "slight" when it was in fact nearly double.

 

[Agamon]

Yeah, that's a fairly odd way to do something "unbiased". Here's two things, one is almost twice the MSRP of the other, but try them both for free and tell me what you think. Oh, you think the more expensive one is better? Wow, whodathunk?

Next, we'll let new drivers test drive a Ford Focus and a Cadillac ELR. I wonder which one will test better?

And besides, what group of complete newbie gamers are going to spend money on two completely separate starter products and try them both? Yet, in the comments, he keeps responding to criticisms, "Hey, it's the new players, not me." This "review" has no basis in reality.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Yeah, that's a fairly odd way to do something "unbiased". Here's two things, one is almost twice the MSRP of the other, but try them both for free and tell me what you think. Oh, you think the more expensive one is better? Wow, whodathunk?

Next, we'll let new drivers test drive a Ford Focus and a Cadillac ELR. I wonder which one will test better?

And besides, what group of complete newbie gamers are going to spend money on two completely separate starter products and try them both? Yet, in the comments, he keeps responding to criticisms, "Hey, it's the new players, not me." This "review" has no basis in reality.

Yeah, he nowhere mentioned that the D&D Starter set can be ordered* for 13$, while the Pathfinder starter set costs 29$, more than twice the price. So, mentioning that the D&D set feels cheap, without mentioning that it IS cheap sounds pretty biased...

*Both prices from amazon.com

 

[delericho]

Like with everything else, some people will hate it, some will dislike it, some will be ambivalent, some will kinda like it, and some will love it.

Very likely, even those who like or love it will find some particular aspects that they really like, some they kinda like, and some that leave them cold. Indeed, they may love the game overall but still find some things they absolutely hate.

The best thing to do is probably to find reviews from people you trust and see what they say. Or, of course, download the free Basic rules and see for yourself - especially once they've been expanded with monsters and magic items and so become a complete (albeit small) game. WotC, to their enormous credit, have made it really easy to try their new edition.

Beyond that, why worry what other people think? If you like 5e, play 5e; if you like 4e, or PF, or 3e, or DCC, or Star Wars, or Savage Worlds, or... play that. The only way it really affects you is if the sales are bad... but since the Starter Set has already gone for a second printing, that suggests it's not a problem.

 

[Nebulous]

Yeah, he nowhere mentioned that the D&D Starter set can be ordered* for 13$, while the Pathfinder starter set costs 29$, more than twice the price. So, mentioning that the D&D set feels cheap, without mentioning that it IS cheap sounds pretty biased...

*Both prices from amazon.com

There is no doubt, NONE, that WotC could have easily added $15 worth of more material to the boxed Starter. More art, a battlemap, character counters or heck even plastic minis. They consciously and deliberately opted not to do those things specifically to keep the price down and encourage potential buyers to take a look at the far more impressive advanced books coming out. I agree, the comparison made between the two was uneven. Still, i found it interesting to see the differences explained.

 

[Hand of Evil]

The blind loyalty factor; there will always be a group of people that will be loyal to something no matter its merits or lack of. The way this one was done, questionable as he does not discuss cost difference and page count, then he does make some valid points on the layout. Personally, I would like to see side-by-side play testing, same characters, levels, same dungeon, just different rules and then comparing the two.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Amazon's probably as unbiased as you'll get, given that it's frequented by all sorts.

Not commenting on reviews of 5E, but that's certainly not true on contentious products - you often get organised or semi-organised groups of people posting negative reviews on products they don't actually own (or in some cases know anything about) in order to cause problems for a disliked company or product. EA has been the victim of this plenty of times, for example. You also get the opposite where the contention is between fans (the Gears of War games, for example, have seen some good review/bad review wars).

I would categorize D&D products as contentious, myself. I know I've seen obscure 4E products, for example, which had "reviews" (I use the term advisedly) that basically said "4E SUX DON'T BUY IT" on them - when there's no way you'd even be buying the product unless you already played 4E!

Sometimes Amazon removes this stuff, sometimes they don't.

On non-contentious products, like, y'know, stuff nerds don't get into wars about, it's much more true. Even then you have a degree of astroturfing and the like, though.

 

[Charles Rampant]

It was a pretty weak review, with a bias towards one product fairly apparent. The primary issue with it is that the reviewer obscures important information concerning the two products: price and lifespan. As I understand it, the Pathfinder Beginners Box is twice the price, has much more content (cardboard figures, maps, etc), but has only a minimal adventure contained. The D&D 5e Beginners Set has less supplementary content like the figures, and certainly the lack of player maps is a weakness, but the reviewer failed to note that the adventure included was very substantial and that the box is minimally priced. In effect, they seem to me to be different products - one an introduction to the system, designed to show quickly and as fluidly as possible that system's complexities, the other an adventure designed for novice role-players and complete with sufficient rules and accessories to allow that fact, priced to incite impulse buying from novices.

By failing to mention and factor in these differences, the review was a bit useless and definitely biased. For example, he disregards the primary selling point of the D&D set (its adventure) by simply running both for one session. Unsurprisingly the one with a shorter adventure and more props will look better in such a comparison.

 

[meomwt]

The plain fact is that the Starter Set is a low-priced tease, designed to bring in the newer player and make them want to invest in the Core books later this year.

It is, to all intents and purposes, an advert you buy.

It does the job and does it well. Will I use it for my group when we get to 5E? Not in that format, no: I'll mix and match with other low-level sets and build something bigger.

But for those dipping a toe in the water, I'd say it does what it says on the tin, at an attractive price point and with considerable verve.

Cardstock covers on the Adventure Book wouldn't have hurt, though