D&D 5E Spells: the Good, the Bad, and the Downright Orcish Grandmother

[SigmaOne]

Witch Bolt is awesome. It's just cool. This is my take on why it's cooler than other spells: http://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2e86ma/5e_reactions_and_witchbolt_a_house_rule_for/

(I had a post here about it, but can't seem to find it.)

Maybe statisticians have DPR issues with it, but whatever. At my table, cool is the rule.

 

[Thank Dog]

Maybe statisticians have DPR issues with it, but whatever. At my table, cool is the rule.

I like to look for balance in all things. I try never to lean too heavily one way or another as I believe that the world is many shades of grey, and a billion kaleidoscope of colours besides, and not just black and white. So while I agree that it's a "cool" spell, it's also a very boring spell (what do you do this round? why, Pinky, I do the same thing I've done every other round!") that doesn't do very good damage for its spell slot.

There's cool and then there's "This combat could've been over five rounds ago if you'd just cast a decent spell or two."

 

[Tzarevitch]

Actually, I think that the problem with the spell is the sentence that says that it no longer works if the foe gets out of range or full cover. I get the whole Emperor Palpatine vibe, but no other concentration spell in the game (TMK) stops working because the target gets out of range or jumps behind a wall.

And trust me. If you rolled as bad as I tend to do on a D20, you would True Strike it as well.

The player of our PC fighter has the same problem. He was in a fight with the half dragon from HotDQ at level 3. The Bard slept the half dragon. Another NPC came over and woke the half dragon up. The half dragon is prone, so advantage. He has advantage and misses. Then, the player decides to use his Action Surge while he still has advantage and still misses. It's so sad at times that it's funny.

At higher level when I do not mind blowing off a lower level spell slot, I'll probably stop using True Strike. But for now, my PC rarely damages foes significantly anyway so the use of the round is actually more helpful than harmful overall. In about 13 combats, my PC wizard has done about 40 points of damage with cantrips. I once did 8 and the entire table erupted. I also once did 6. The third most I've done against a foe is 4 and I usually do 1 or 2. I've never criticaled yet. Not that how I rolled in the past affects how I'll roll in the future, but I need new dice.

Those aren't Witch Bolt's only problems. After the first turn it is generally less effective than anything else you can do. It only does decent damage on the first turn, it eats subsequent actions with your concentration, and it does truly terrible damage after turn 1, worse than almost anything else you can do. It is dangerous for a wizard to use on anything tough because it makes you stand within easy move of almost anything that doesn't have a broken leg, it won't actually kill it, and you just gave whatever you attacked good reason to come over and beat you into the ground to break concentration (or just kill you.) If it can't kill you it'll just move around a corner or behind a tree or something. Note it doesn't even have to stay there. It can literally circle around a tree or something and come back to kill you that same turn if it has enough move.

Someone already said this but True Strike is really an eldritch knight spell. The only real uses for it as a Wizard are if you are setting up as a sniper (or coup de gras) at the start of a fight and can precast it, if you are in a "must hit" situation such as needing to hit the vampire with a stake, or if you expended a bonus action or something and are limited to only casting cantrips (and don't have a better one for some reason).

 

[KarinsDad]

Those aren't Witch Bolt's only problems. After the first turn it is generally less effective than anything else you can do. It only does decent damage on the first turn, it eats subsequent actions with your concentration, and it does truly terrible damage after turn 1, worse than almost anything else you can do.

How do you figure?

On round one, it does zero damage if it misses, D12 damage on a hit, and 2D12 damage on a critical.

On round two if it hits on round one, it does D12 damage. No to hit roll required. This is better damage than any cantrip the Wizard can use because it is autohit. It also allows the wizard to do damage without casting any spells. If it does not hit on round one, then the wizard is free to do whatever he feels like on round two.

Also, Witch Bolt on round two averages 6.5 damage. Fire Bolt against a foe whom the Wizard has a 60% chance to hit on round two averages 3.575 damage (including criticals). The Witch Bolt does almost twice the damage of the Fire Bolt up to and including level 4. At level 5, the PC is easily able to put Witch Bolt into a second level slot, hence, still doing more damage than Fire Bolt.

It is dangerous for a wizard to use on anything tough because it makes you stand within easy move of almost anything that doesn't have a broken leg, it won't actually kill it, and you just gave whatever you attacked good reason to come over and beat you into the ground to break concentration (or just kill you.)

A Wizard often has a better AC against monsters than non-Wizards. With a 14 Dex, Mage Armor and a Shield spell (a typical combo for a wizard), that's AC 20. The Wizard's chance of not getting hit is better than most other PCs (granted, at the cost of a first level spell slot if the monster hits in the sweet spot range).

Sure, a monster can come in and do some damage. But, that's just damage that it would be likely to do to someone else instead. Why do people think that a wizard is incapable of taking damage, but a bard, cleric, rogue, or other PC is capable of it?

If it can't kill you it'll just move around a corner or behind a tree or something.

If the DM metagames that all creatures are so intelligent that they know exactly how to defeat the spell. Btw, most trees are only 1/2 (or at best 3/4) cover.

Note it doesn't even have to stay there. It can literally circle around a tree or something and come back to kill you that same turn if it has enough move.

It would have to be a darn big tree, at least 5 feet wide, to even temporarily supply total cover.

 

[Thank Dog]

On round one, it does zero damage if it misses, D12 damage on a hit, and 2D12 damage on a critical.

Still going!

Screw it.

Fire Bolt, a cantrip, does 1d10 damage on a hit and 2d10 damage on a crit. And can do 1d10 or 2d10 the next turn as well.

On round two if it hits on round one, it does D12 damage. No to hit roll required.

Only if you hit on the first turn which is a major disadvantage of the spell in the first place. And also only if the wizard's concentration hasn't been broken and the target hasn't moved behind cover or out of range, all three things being not only possible but highly likely in any combat.

Also, Witch Bolt on round two averages 6.5 damage. Fire Bolt against a foe whom the Wizard has a 60% chance to hit on round two averages 3.575 damage (including criticals). The Witch Bolt does almost twice the damage of the Fire Bolt up to and including level 4.

Whut? Where are you getting these figures from? 60% chance to hit? AC is highly variable, and Poison Spray is 1d12 and is technically "auto hit" as well.

At level 5, the PC is easily able to put Witch Bolt into a second level slot, hence, still doing more damage than Fire Bolt.

You are aware that only the initial damage is boosted by putting into a higher slot, right? Which makes it an even worse choice than using it in a 1st-level slot.

If the DM metagames that all creatures are so intelligent that they know exactly how to defeat the spell. Btw, most trees are only 1/2 (or at best 3/4) cover.

Short of the target being incredibly stupid, standing behind something or going up and whacking the wizard who is constantly streaming lighting at you isn't exactly Gnomish Clockwork Device.

"Hmm, what should I do? This constant stream of pain is coming from the wizard as a bright bolt of electricity. I know. I'll just stand here and continue to experience this pain as no doubt there is nothing I can do to stop it because I'm not smrt like a wizzard."

 

[transtemporal]

i like fire sphere because you get an attack as a reaction for 2d6 and you can roll it around for an extra 2d6 as a bonus action!!

 

[Eejit]

The only edge case where Witch Bolt would be good is maintaining Contagion: Slimy Doom stun on a dangerous and tough-to-hit enemy while the rest of the party cleans up other opponents.

 

[Thank Dog]

I just remembered another one. Pass Without Trace gives +10 to Stealth checks for all people that the caster chooses for up to 1 hour (concentration) and they leave no trace. Was used to excellent effect in HotDQ to get all the prisoners out while sneaking through the camp

 

[Fabio Andrea Rossi]

The first time we played one of my players insisted that WB can be used like a small Call Lighting: when one bolt ceases, another one can be fired until concentration is mantained.

I don't think this is what the text says but perhaps it was poor wording and the spell should read "if you do anything else the BOLT ceases", do you think this would make the spell too powerful?

 

[KarinsDad]

Still going!

Screw it.

Fire Bolt, a cantrip, does 1d10 damage on a hit and 2d10 damage on a crit. And can do 1d10 or 2d10 the next turn as well.


Only if you hit on the first turn which is a major disadvantage of the spell in the first place. And also only if the wizard's concentration hasn't been broken and the target hasn't moved behind cover or out of range, all three things being not only possible but highly likely in any combat.


Whut? Where are you getting these figures from? 60% chance to hit? AC is highly variable, and Poison Spray is 1d12 and is technically "auto hit" as well.


You are aware that only the initial damage is boosted by putting into a higher slot, right? Which makes it an even worse choice than using it in a 1st-level slot.



Short of the target being incredibly stupid, standing behind something or going up and whacking the wizard who is constantly streaming lighting at you isn't exactly Gnomish Clockwork Device.

"Hmm, what should I do? This constant stream of pain is coming from the wizard as a bright bolt of electricity. I know. I'll just stand here and continue to experience this pain as no doubt there is nothing I can do to stop it because I'm not smrt like a wizzard."

You are focusing on the DPR part of this and ignoring the playstyle part of this.

At 5th level, I'm a wizard. I don't care too much about a single spell slot. I do care if I have to lay down a bunch of repetitive boring (since level one) cantrips spells to help take out a lieutenant. I also don't want to cast more than 1 or 2 non-cantrip spells out of my repertoire to help take down a lieutenant. I'm stingy that way.

Is Witch Bolt a DPR king? Nope. There are spells that do more damage.

The neat thing about the spell is that it is auto-damage. I can fire and forget. I don't care if the lieutenant decides to ignore the 5th level Rogue who often does 18 to 28 points of damage in a single round to focus on my wizard who is doing a paltry 6.5 points. If he does decide to do that, great. He's making a tactical error and that spreads damage around the party. I'm ok if he OAs or disengages, just in order to get away from my spell. That's either good damage or good action economy as well.

All of the cantrips can do zero damage in a round. So can this spell in round one. But if the player makes a single D20 roll, he's in the zone with this spell. Do you know how boring it is to do NOTHING for multiple rounds in a fight, recasting the same old boring cantrips over and over and over again? Blah. This spell allows the wizard to contribute every single round in a fight and he does it in more than one way. Yup, the wizard is only doing 25% to 35% of the damage that the Rogue is doing. But, that's ok. It's better than doing 0% that someone who misses a lot does. The wizard does not have to be a striker.

In 4E vernacular, this is a minor control spell. It does damage every single round and encourages the enemy to either OA, or disengage, or ignore larger threats and attack the wizard. It has a very limited use. And yes, it does force the wizard in close where area effect attacks are the best defense against it. But I'm ok with that as a player. I'm ok with risking one for the team as opposed to playing the pussy wizard 100 feet away that never takes damage in the entire day. I'm ok with balancing out total party damage to the wizard as well as everyone else. Wizards can suck up an attack every once in a while. That's ok. People play them like porcelain dolls.

And this spell is a bit better for Sorcerers or someone with the Spell Sniper feat.


At the end of this fight, sure, the wizard did a bit less damage than if he had been casting other spells. But he did it using up very few spell slots and worse case, the NPC lasted for a single extra round. Best case, the PCs still wipe out the NPC and the NPC got the same number of turns (because instead of the first PC after the NPC's turn killing it, a few PCs after that killed it). That might result in the PCs using up a bit more healing resources, but then again compared to casting cantrips, typically it does not.


As for scaling, no the spell does not scale. It's on par with cantrips like Chill Touch and Ray of Frost at level 5 (100% * 6.5 damage vs. 75% (or less) * 9 damage), it's a bit weaker than Fire Bolt or Poison Spray. This also means that it's on par with Chill Touch and Ray of Frost at level 10 (assuming that most foes fought by then have better AC offsetting PC's extra to hit bonus).

Btw, a critical on a cantrip effectively raises it's to hit by one. For example, a 70% chance to hit with a cantrip means a 65% of doing x damage and a 5% chance of doing 2x damage, hence, it's the same as a 75% chance of doing x damage for DPR calculations.


And actually, you are correct about the DPR. I expect WotC to slightly modify the spell in an errata at some point (I expect them to make the latter round damage the same as the initial round damage so that it scales decently with spell level). But even without errata, I know that I'll enjoy using this spell all of the way to level 10. It's just fun and it removes that frustrating part of recasting the same old At Will cantrips over and over and over again and missing a lot.

The most boring thing about playing a low level wizard is cantrips. Playing second fiddle to the other PC's damage while waiting for that one round per encounter where you might throw out a non-cantrip spell. zzzzzzzz This spell alleviates that pain somewhat. Something that someone not playing a wizard might not understand. Btw, my wizard also sometimes fights two dagger style to alleviate that pain as well.


As for the metagaming part of this, how does the enemy know that the lightning of the spell does not go for 500 feet? Yes, the caster might have moved within 30 feet (I would often move to 20, 25 if the foe has reach) to cast the spell (he might not have had to move though), but that does not mean that the spell has a low range limit. A knowledgeable foe would know it, but many foes are not very knowledgeable. That is what I mean by metagaming. You as a player or DM KNOW that it is limited to 30 feet, nobody else should (shy of actual knowledge of the spell).


You don't like this spell because you focus solely on DPR. Fine. I totally get the entire 5E scare factor that enemies are a real threat, so offense is better than defense. But it's an ok spell for some of us that do not play your playstyle. There are some really powerful foes that I would not use this against (like a Dragon), but an Ogre? a Minotaur? A Salamander? Sure. I'm not the only PC fighting.


PS. Poison Spray while technically does not require an attack roll, still gets a save. It is not automatic.