D&D 5E Dungeonscape no more?

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
It's interesting that DS was entirely funded by Trapdoor - I didn't realise that. So it literally was just a licensing deal, not a contracted studio.

If that's all it was, switching licensees is easy. Maybe they have other licensing plans. There's lots of current guesswork, but maybe they've switched to someone else? Or plan to open up licensing altogether? Or any number of things.

I think proclamations of stupidity at this point are a bit daft. Let's wait and see what's actually happening.
 

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aramis erak

Legend
To be fair, other than the unfortunate (for multiple reasons) cancellation of the VTT, they had their act together pretty well for about two years, from 2008 until early 2010. The double bomb of the Essentials reboot and the move from a functional desktop application to a comically inept web application was when you really saw the flailing start.

The flailing about and wailing and gnashing of teeth actually started when lots of people dropped the D&D brand for Pathfinder, because they didn't like the way 4E played. About 2 weeks after the preview books hit shelves...

Truth is, most of the people who played 3.5E didn't make the switch to 4E. It was still a financial success (if it wasn't, it wouldn't have lasted 4+ years as an edition, nor have gotten a reboot in the form of a minor edition), but it appealed to a different demographic than 3.5.

And Paizo made big bucks on the legacy fanbase. Not me — I got off the boat at 3.5, and D&D has never been my "identity game"† — and Paizo knew right off that they had to do several things to keep the legacy and build a fanbase:
  1. both dead tree and electronic versions of the same rulebook, including art;
  2. get legacy players to read the rules;
  3. keep it close enough to use 3.X modules with PF rules and PF modules with 3.X rules;
  4. cure a few of the more outré issues with 3.X;
  5. get new players to meet and play with old players;
  6. Keep the module quality high.

1 was easy cheap in PDF, cheap+Costs in dead tree.
2 was easy - free low-art beta. It got me to give it a read-through, and I wasn't even playing D&D by that point.
3 was tricky due to 4. According to most of my friends who loved 3.5, Pathfinder succeeded. My friends who didn't like 3.X don't like PF, either.
5 was handled by a robust Organized Play system.
6 was done, by all accounts I've heard, but I've never bothered to check myself, because the rules were too 3.X for my tastes.

So far, WotC is doing some of that...
1 - not yet/kind-of, depending upon view of the Basic Rules PDFs. DDEX and DDEN modules in electronic only. Core dead tree only, except for multiple really good pirate scans. But and OEM PDF would be better, both for searching and for use with Text-To-Speech. (One of my current players is visually impaired enough to have trouble, and another who games at the store for special events is functionally blind (uncorrectable vision which requires images at 128pt or bigger fonts to read, focus range about 7" for that limited ability). PDF means many blind gamers don't have to have braille transcriptions done.
2. Being done with the Basic Rules PDFs. Got me through the door. Now, I haz ded treezzz...
3. Not a big priority, thanks to 4e... and to #4.
4. Yep, and then some. Cured way more of the 3.X issues than PF did.
5. Organized play to the rescue as well.
6. We'll see. Too soon to tell, but DDEX14 doesn't really hold much promise. That map SUCKED.

PDF users aren't all just being self-entitled.
  • For some, it's about portability. I'd rather have legal PDF than dead tree, because ink on wood pulp and rag is heavy.
  • For some, it's about searchability. As I age, my ability to skim for a rule is impaired more, even as my ability to interpret what I do read improves further.
  • For some, it's about disabled gamer accessibility. I've known 4 blind gamers. 3 of them went PDF. The fourth is a non-purchaser, using a braille character sheet, and beads on a string for hit points in session.
  • For some, it's a matter of price. They have the laptop or phone or tablet anyway, and PDF prices save money over dead tree.


---

† The game with which I identify as a "fan". I'm a general RPG geek who plays D&D, not a D&D geek. Outside the D&D boards, I almost never use the term DM, except with the meaning "die modifier", as in "DM+2"... most of my adult life, I identified as a "Traveller GM".
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I explicitly stated I was dumping 5E AFTER I BOUGHT THE CORE. In fact, on Monday I wrote

I don't care what you wrote yesterday. You wrote in August you were taking your gaming dollars elsewhere, repeatedly, and said nothing about you waiting until after you bought the DMG. If you're now trying to claim you came back, that your prior threat turned out to be a false one, and now you're making a new nearly-identical threat to the one that already turned out to be false, OK then. But then, why would anyone take your new threat seriously? We've already been through this same discussion with you - you already previously said if we wanted to call it rage-quitting you were fine with that, and you already explained you were taking your dollars to other games.

I mean, I quoted four of your posts saying the same threat back in August. You can't just pretend you didn't say those things.
 

Bugleyman

First Post
I don't care what you wrote yesterday. You wrote in August you were taking your gaming dollars elsewhere, repeatedly. If you're now trying to claim you came back, that your prior threat turned out to be a false one, and now you're making a new nearly-identical threat to the one that already turned out to be false, OK then. But then, why would anyone take your new threat seriously? We've already been through this same discussion with you - you already previously said if we wanted to call it rage-quitting you were fine with that, and you already explained you were taking your dollars to other games.

I mean, I quoted four of your posts saying the same threat back in August. You can't just pretend you didn't say those things.

Again, I explicitly stated that I would make no further purchases after the core. Read my posts in context. Today, I went a step beyond and canceled my DMG order.

I'm sorry you can't accept that, but that's what happened.

In fact, here's a copy of the e-mail:

"Amazon.com Your Orders | Your Account | Amazon.com
Items Cancellation
Order #112-8091627-7360229
Hello REDACTED
You've successfully canceled some items from your order. In most cases, you pay for items when we ship them to you, so you won't be charged for canceled items.* For the remaining items that you've not canceled, we'll let you know when they ship. If you would like to view the status of your order or make any changes to it, please visit Your Orders on Amazon.com.

Canceled Items
Order #112-8091627-7360229
Placed on Saturday, August 9, 2014
Dungeon Master's Guide (D&D Core Rulebook)
Sold by Amazon.com LLC
Cancel Reason : Customer Canceled

If you need further assistance with your order, please visit Help & Customer Service.

We hope to see you again soon!
Amazon.com"

Or are you going to accuse me of fabricating that, too?


 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
OK, guys, it - quite literally - doesn't matter whether Bugleyman said he was going to buy hardbacks or not. Drop it, please, both of you.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Truth is, most of the people who played 3.5E didn't make the switch to 4E. It was still a financial success (if it wasn't, it wouldn't have lasted 4+ years as an edition, nor have gotten a reboot in the form of a minor edition), but it appealed to a different demographic than 3.5.

Yeah. They got a 30-40% conversion rate, from what I've been told.
 

Bugleyman

First Post
I was a 4E converter. I subsequently felt very burned by the collapse of the character visualizer, the game table, etc. and the pulling of the PDFs. And now, WotC seems to be repeating all the same mistakes. It's very frustrating, really...I want to support D&D, but they have to sell the products I want to buy.
 
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