D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

[TarionzCousin]

The real point to gold is simple, but not everyone cares enough to hear it. If you really want to know, open the spoiler box below.

[sblock]

​

SEND ALL YOUR GOLD TO HYPNOTOAD.

[/sblock]

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Shadowrun has listed prices for items, and I know that there are some items that people tend to buy whenever possible (Smartlink and a Suprathyroid Gland), but the game lacks codified classes or an expected wealth progression, so it's not a direct comparison.

It's been mentioned before in this thread, but there's an analogy between the way Shadowrun casters dump lots of money into regeants for spirit-summoning and -binding and the way 5E wizards/druids/etc. can dump lots of gold into Planar Binding at high levels. In Shadowrun you're limited in the total number of spirits you can have bound at once, whereas in 5E you're limited in the duration you can keep them, so expect to see 5E wizards being more "bursty" in the way they spend on binding: larger squads, summoned on-demand (i.e. over the course of several days) instead of in advance.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

How? If it is one of the official methods of ChaGen in a game, and everyone uses the same system, how is that overstepping bounds?

Because in 5E it isn't one of the official methods. You can claim Rule 0 but it will still turn players off because it feels like you're breaking an implicit contract.

 

[Riley37]

Nah, it knew it was gonna steal 'em when it entered. It didn't carry cash!

You say "steal". I say "pay the iron price". Thanks for answering my question, I guess. My question about the emotions of a Terminator.

The iron price is a possible complication when a PC sells a Wand of Magic Missiles to an NPC in a back alley, who can then immediately (no attunement required, no batteries required) use their newly-acquired Wand to shoot a 7th-level Magic Missile at the PC, and collect a 100% "rebate" from the PC's corpse.

A prudent seller might use up all but one charge, perhaps casting Magic Missiles at the darkness, before selling. Did your PC take the "Prudent" feat?

Anyways, here's a more serious question. I'm running a group which has played "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" (intro only), "Tales Trees Tell", most of "Defiance in Phlan", "Courting of Fire", and "Shadow over the Moonsea". Which of the magic items from those stories should the PCs be able to sell in Phlan, at what prices, and with what side effects or unintended consequences? Which of the named, established NPCs in Phlan are likely buyers? If either they, or a generic NPC, buys with the intention to re-sell, then who's likely to end up with the item?

I'm considering the default as "any magic item which the PCs sell, to anyone other than a trusted ally, ends up in the hands of the cult of Tiamat". That could be hilarious, a few sessions later.

What magic items should those PCs be able to buy, either with cash, or by swapping one magic item for another?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The iron price is a possible complication when a PC sells a Wand of Magic Missiles to an NPC in a back alley, who can then immediately (no attunement required, no batteries required) use their newly-acquired Wand to shoot a 7th-level Magic Missile at the PC, and collect a 100% "rebate" from the PC's corpse.

The thing is, a 7th-level Magic Missile has virtually zero chance of killing a PC who might want to sell that wand; and even if it KOs someone, the rest of the party is still there. Beyond level 3, a group of PCs is the most powerful fighting force within 100 miles of civilization.

And if the NPC really is that powerful, then it could probably win without using the wand.

I'm considering the default as "any magic item which the PCs sell, to anyone other than a trusted ally, ends up in the hands of the cult of Tiamat". That could be hilarious, a few sessions later.

So the PCs would get cash for the items, but then they get to murder the new buyers and take the items back? Sounds like a win-win for team PC.

 

[S'mon]

Back in the times most similar to those typical of a FRPG, carrying a weapon bigger than a knife was something that was pretty tightly controlled, even if it is something most games gloss over.

In most feudal societies, who could legally produce certain items- especially arms, armor, siege weaponry and any other technologies deemed to be important to the well being of the state- would be controlled by royal edicts. Produce something without the right seal, and you could face ruinous fines, exile, or in extreme cases, the death penalty.

This seems like a big exaggeration to me for most of the pre-modern era; perhaps Tokugawa Shogunate japan was like this, but few pre-modern societies were willing or able to enforce laws against carrying weapons or making or wearing armour. It was apparently quite common for towns to prohibit the carrying of polearms, but sidearms (eg swords) were rarely prohibited, while in the countryside travellers would routinely carry weapons for defence against bandits - axe, sword, and spear were common in many eras, not just staves. Manufacture of cannons and siege engines could be prohibited by a strong central authority, but common jack and gambeson type armour was always produced locally, and is quite effective; usually heavier armours like mail and coat-of-plates were too.

The scholagladiatoria youtube channel has several well-researched videos on this, among many other aspects of historical weapons use.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This seems like a big exaggeration to me for most of the pre-modern era; perhaps Tokugawa Shogunate japan was like this, but few pre-modern societies were willing or able to enforce laws against carrying weapons or making or wearing armour. It was apparently quite common for towns to prohibit the carrying of polearms, but sidearms (eg swords) were rarely prohibited, while in the countryside travellers would routinely carry weapons for defence against bandits - axe, sword, and spear were common in many eras, not just staves. Manufacture of cannons and siege engines could be prohibited by a strong central authority, but common jack and gambeson type armour was always produced locally, and is quite effective; usually heavier armours like mail and coat-of-plates were too.

The scholagladiatoria youtube channel has several well-researched videos on this, among many other aspects of historical weapons use.

And from scholagladiatoria comes this video:
[video=youtube;9rp3nve9CJk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rp3nve9CJk&sns=em[/video]

From the notes to this video:

Published on Nov 11, 2013Some parts of Europe had much more liberal sword carrying laws though - the German states for example. However, in medieval England it was generally illegal for non-nobles to walk around with swords, armour or other weapons of war within cities. The civilian population of medieval English cities were generally unarmed, except for knives and daggers:

“To the mayor and sheriffs of London. Order to cause proclamation to be made, forbidding any man of whatsoever estate or condition to make unlawful assemblies in the city or suburbs of London, to go armed, girt with a sword or arrayed with unwonted harness, carry with him such arms, swords or harness, or do aught whereby the peace may be broken or the statutes concerning the bearing of arms contrary to the peace, or any of the people be disturbed or put in fear, under pain of losing his arms etc. and of imprisonment at the king's will, except lords, great men, knights and esquires of good estate, other men upon entering or leaving the city, and the king's officers and ministers appointed to keep the peace; and order after such proclamation to arrest all whom they shall find acting contrary to the same with the exceptions aforesaid, their followers, the arms, swords etc. found with them, and to keep them in custody in prison until further order, causing their arms etc. to be appraised and answer to be made to the king for them, and certifying in chancery from time to time the names of those arrested and the price and value of their arms etc. and so behaving that henceforward no more mischief be there done by their default; as it has now newly come to the king's ears that there are evildoers and breakers of the peace, some armed, some girt about the midst with swords, and some arrayed as aforesaid, who lurk in divers places within the city and suburbs and run to and fro committing batteries, mayhems, robberies, manslaughters etc., and hindering and disturbing the ministers and officers of the city from the exercise of their offices, in contempt of the king and breach of the peace, to the disturbance and terror of the people and contrary to the said statutes, which the king will not and ought not to endure.”

From: 'Close Rolls, Richard II: December 1393', Calendar of Close Rolls, Richard II: volume 5: 1392-1396 (1925).

Emphasis mine.

As pointed out in the video, not only was this English law, but also French.

He also noted that many people might OWN weapons bigger than a dagger or knife, but they were not allowed to bear them as weapons. Instead, they were like hacksilver or baat: inheritances, repositories of wealth- a substitute for money.

The Roman Empire had laws restricting the carrying of weapons as well- you had to be a free citizen of the Roman Empire. "Barbarians" were not permitted to carry OR buy weapons within their borders, and those caught selling to them risked their lives to do so.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Because in 5E it isn't one of the official methods. You can claim Rule 0 but it will still turn players off because it feels like you're breaking an implicit contract.

Hm! Didn't notice that. Fair enough- it is no longer one of the official methods.

 

[Riley37]

The thing is, a 7th-level Magic Missile has virtually zero chance of killing a PC who might want to sell that wand; and even if it KOs someone, the rest of the party is still there.

Not necessarily. If they're using a downtime day for each of them to sell a variety of loot, the PCs could just as easily be scattered across the city, each in their own back alley or jewelry merchant's house or pawnshop or Thau-Mart. If the PC says "okay, we're all going together, so that I'll have an ace in the hole if the deal goes wrong" - then THAT ALONE moves the sale from category F to category D.

When a 9th-level NPC dragon cultist has purchased a Wand of Magic Missiles from a 7th-level PC, and the PC hands over the wand, and just as the wand enters the NPC's hand, it *starts* the fight with an empty-the-clip 7-charge barrage: you are correct, the fight isn't over, not *yet*. The *surprise round* is over. The cultist has full HP, and hasn't used up any spell slots; the PC does not have full HP anymore. We start from there and we play it out round by round...

Wait, you say there aren't any 9th-level NPCs in Phlan? And, thus, PCs can't hire NPCs to cast Greater Restoration or Raise Dead? If so, then your campaign sounds *more* gold-to-magic-restrictive than mine.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He also noted that many people might OWN weapons bigger than a dagger or knife, but they were not allowed to bear them as weapons. Instead, they were like hacksilver or baat: inheritances, repositories of wealth- a substitute for money.

The Roman Empire had laws restricting the carrying of weapons as well- you had to be a free citizen of the Roman Empire. "Barbarians" were not permitted to carry OR buy weapons within their borders, and those caught selling to them risked their lives to do so.

Of course, we also know that there was wiggle room. Like the sword, all kinds of weapons evolved from tools, and their original forms are only slightly less dangerous than their martial descendants.

So a woodsman's axe is only single bitted- it can still kill. Ditto the mason's picks, hammers, and the like.

But the patrolling lawmen of yesterday were like those of the modern age. My buddies who play baseball and softball don't carry bats in their cars' cabins but in their trunks- they could be considered deadly weapons; trouble on a traffic stop- so I wouldn't be surprised to find city watchmen asking pointed questions of men carrying small axes or hammers who didn't look like laborers...